La Gran Final de la Copa America Centenario Argentina Vs Chile June 26th [R]

Discussion in 'Copa América Centenario 2016' started by sidspaceman, Jun 23, 2016.

  1. Loco

    Loco Member

    May 1, 2005
    I'm sure that the "magic spray" had nothing to do with it . . . :whistling:
     
  2. Ezto

    Ezto Member

    Jun 27, 2007
    NY
    Club:
    --other--
    Country:
    Chile
    Have a tissue.
    I'm still waiting for your claims from last year about how you were gonna destroy us, own us, show us whose boss, etc. I also read that we were gonna be humiliated this year. You can cry all you want now about how you lost it in a pk blabla, but the fact remain. None of your predictions came true and your team lost... again.
     
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  3. Cruzifero

    Cruzifero Member

    Aug 6, 2005
    Nu Jeru
    Country:
    Colombia
    I don't agree with James being captain either that's the point that I'm making. You talk about lottery but there where 90 minutes prior to that. I had Argentina from the beginning losing money in the final so what have u called me out on? So let me ask you since that's your team, who's a better leader between messi and mascherano in your opinion?
     
  4. Loco

    Loco Member

    May 1, 2005
    I think Mascherano is a beast, but that's not why we lost. The baby of Captain America & Alexander the Great could've been our captain, and it wouldn't have made a difference on the pitch. In fact, I think that burning calories on captaincy is inconsequential. After all said and done, Masch was on the pitch and he can be as vocal as he wants with or without an armband.
     
  5. Loco

    Loco Member

    May 1, 2005
    slow down there killer, your team is not exactly Brazil 1970 and last time I checked you're tied for 4th in qualifying. Further, you lost 5 of the last 7 games against Argentina. And before you take to the computer to type "But we won the final" - I know that, I conceded that point and I am not crying. But is there a major sport with a worse way to resolve a game other than a pk shootout?
     
  6. Cruzifero

    Cruzifero Member

    Aug 6, 2005
    Nu Jeru
    Country:
    Colombia
    I still would give it to mascherano off of principle. Por respeto y jerarquía.
     
  7. HeartandSoul

    HeartandSoul Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 25, 2007
    The Garden State
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Country:
    Chile
    Plenty of teams have won important championships in penalty kicks and I'm on the side who believe that it has nothing to do with a lottery.

    Pk shootouts require preparation (both kicker and goalie), mental fortitude, stamina, selection of the kickers, etc. Going first often helps. It's all part of a process that will increase the probability of winning by giving yourself a competitive advantage.

    Also, no one "outplayed" anyone, that's why it went to pks in the first place.
     
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  8. HeartandSoul

    HeartandSoul Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 25, 2007
    The Garden State
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Country:
    Chile
    Coin toss, field goal kick, a best of seven series, pulling straws, name out of a hat, pin the tail on the donkey?
     
  9. Loco

    Loco Member

    May 1, 2005
    ha ha. Maybe if a tail on the donkey would be better.

    Again, maybe the discussion of PK shootouts should be in a different forum. But honestly, congrats to Chile, back-to-back Copas is huge accomplishment. No bad feelings towards Chile, this is just sports after all
     
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  10. Loco

    Loco Member

    May 1, 2005
    But do you think that if Masch was wearing the armband, the result would've been different? You think that's all it would've took?
     
  11. fafaco

    fafaco Member+

    Jun 16, 2015
    Country:
    Ecuador
    Yes, this is true.. i agree with the part that stamina, has a lot to do with PKs.. Estoy de acuerdo contigo.. Biglia estaba muy agotado fisicamente.. Por eso tapo Bravo el tiro de Biglia
     
  12. Cruzifero

    Cruzifero Member

    Aug 6, 2005
    Nu Jeru
    Country:
    Colombia
    Nah man not at all but what's right is right. But who knows I've seen crazier things en noches de Copa.
     
  13. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Country:
    Chile
    #413 Rickdog, Jul 1, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2016
    A PK shootout, might not be the most beautiful way to decide a winner, but it is not a lottery decided only on luck.

    You still need the basic skills to actually score each pk or to avoid it from happening.

    In a Penalty kick shootout :

    The first part, which depends on the shooter of each PK, where the basics about it, is to at least shoot the ball below the cross bar and between the side poals. We won both times, because basicly, while all our players kicked all the balls where it is suposed to be kicked at, your team, had one of your players kicking the ball outside, of where it is suposed to be kicked at. So while all our players kicked the ball perfectly, at least one of your players couldn't.

    The second part and not least important, is the job the goalkeeper does, by trying to avoid the ball from going in. For this last match, both goalkeepers did their job avoiding at least one goal, each (so over this issue, there was no big diference).

    That's where we proved our skills and superiority (and this is a fact, not lottery), and why we won and you lost.
    ;)
     
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  14. Ezto

    Ezto Member

    Jun 27, 2007
    NY
    Club:
    --other--
    Country:
    Chile
    #414 Ezto, Jul 1, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2016
    Really bad response. I never claimed that my team was 70's Brazil or that we deserved to be first on the qualis, so I don't know what you are referring to. It was you that claimed that Chile was gonna get beat, humiliated... u get the point (I can go fish out the records if you want me to). It is also you that keeps wanting to prove and announcing that Argentina is the better team at every step. Right now I'm very happy by making an arrogant troll eat his words and watching him dig a deeper hole.
     
  15. barcaq8

    barcaq8 Member

    Jul 14, 2014
    Camp Nou, Barcelona
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Chile deserved this, lets not take it away from them Back to back copas is a great achievement. Eventhough argentina had a talented roster, they were mentally very fragile due to the pressure being placed upon them. They couldnt handle it. If messi repeats the penalty 9 out of 10 times it would be between the posts. Thats the way football is.

    Argentina couldnt score againt chile in 240! mins in 2 final! This speaks alot about Argentina's attacking ability. There is something wrong.

    In the end. Salute chile!
     
  16. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Country:
    Gibraltar
    For those that think penalties are a lottery, just imagine having to take the shot with the weight of an entire country and history on your shoulders. The players know that everything they have done over the past 12 months will be mostly forgotten by history. That penalty moment is what everyone will remember even 50 years later. Ask England players. Ask Roberto Baggio what it's like to be remembered for that one moment despite all the other amazing things he did his entire career. That's a lot of pressure.

    You need ice in the veins for the kicker and real bravery for the goalkeeper to win a penalty shootout. The team with the stronger psychology usually wins. The losing team can never claim that they deserved it because if they did they would have won it before penalties.
     
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  17. Loco

    Loco Member

    May 1, 2005
    Not sure if you can hear it, but that "thunk" sound is my banging my head against the wall in sad desperation because I've lost all hope in humanity. Congratulations, you've killed the hope of this forum
     
  18. Loco

    Loco Member

    May 1, 2005
    Name me a game that was decided by PK that fans consider one of the top 10 games ever played -

    And afterwards, name a major team sport with a worse way of decisioning a final result
     
  19. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Country:
    Argentina
    While I mostly agree with you that pk's are often down to luck, or simply who has the better penalty stopper, I can name one of the greatest matches ever played that went down to penalties in the classic between France and Brazil at WC86.
     
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  20. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Country:
    Gibraltar

    A lot of people consider Liverpool-Milan Champions League final from 2005 as one of the best games ever.

    Uruguay-Ghana is one of the top 3 or 4 most memorable games from World Cup 2010
    Argentina-England is one of the top games of World Cup 1998


    There are many more, but that's not really the point. Nobody says that all soccer games have to be exciting. Sometimes it ends 0-0 ... it's the nature of the sport. If you don't like it there are other sports out there like basketball. What exactly do you suggest that they do ... just keep playing until somebody scores? 120 minutes is already a big test for a player and towards the end you start seeing muscular injuries almost every time. By 150 minutes nobody will be able to run anymore and the fans will go home.
     
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  21. Loco

    Loco Member

    May 1, 2005
    Listen babies, I'm going to explain it so that you all can understand it.

    If you are honestly evaluating soccer as a product, the knockout tournament where a champion gets crowned via a PK shootout is an inferior product than other means for soccer, and an inferior product to other sports that crown champions via tournament knockout phases.

    Basketball is perhaps the best product for tournament knockout play, b/c the OT is consistent with the game; they don't stop playing the game and decide a winner via a game of HORSE!!. Now, most people that can honestly evaluate soccer as a product (even the people that love soccer as I do) have to be conscious that the PK resolution is an arbitrary form of decisioning a champion; it is almost a lottery. And it has been described as a lottery not just by me, but also by soccer pundits!!!

    Now I know that for some, you can't accept that the PK shootout can be called a "lottery" bc in doing so it would lower the accomplishments of your team, I get that. But its a critique that has been made prior to the last two Copa Americas and will continue afterwards. The PK shootout makes soccer inferior (in tournament knockouts) because WE HAVE ALL SEEN IT where a team goes into complete "park the bus mode" so that they can take a chance in PKs. (THE FREAKING TV ANNOUNCERS CALL IT "TAKING A CHANCE IN PKs"!! I didn't make this up!!!!)

    The honest debate is "for soccer, what is a better way of getting a champion; via a knockout tournament or via league play (i.e., play 3o games and see who has the most points)" - Again, as I previously stated, I don't think this debate belongs here, but you babies forced it out of me.

    As for the examples that have some offer of "memorable games" that were decided via PK, are you freaking kidding me? really? in the top 100 games ever played, how many are listed that where decided via PKs??? Its more likely called "a cruel way of crowing a champion" - a CRUEL way b/c its a lottery.

    Again, this is a discussion for another thread, but you all made me do this.
     
  22. posteador

    posteador Member+

    Dec 29, 2006
    Lincoln, UK
    I'd love to find out, we usually get eliminated from World Cups by Brazil!!! :(

    We beat defending champs Spain and lost to the Netherlands, but we were saving some players for Brazil... didn't help in the end.
     
  23. posteador

    posteador Member+

    Dec 29, 2006
    Lincoln, UK
    #423 posteador, Jul 2, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2016
    The teams that you have to watch out for in tournaments are those that get better as they progress through the tournament. The key is to peak at the right time.

    In another timeline maybe Chile would have gotten a win against Argentina in the opener and trash Bolivia and Panama only to get a big head and lose to the first team outside the group stages.

    Defeats every now and then when it doesn't matter as much keep your team honest and on their toes. Gotta stay sharp.

    This was the inverse of Mexico who got way too big-headed by beating many smaller nations and winning friendlies to build this winning-streak that was more of an illusion than anything else. In the end they played much worse than they could have because of it. There is no way Mexico is 7-0 worse than Chile, out matches are usually very close and with only 1 goal difference to either side, but Mexico thought they could improvise on the day like they did in most of their previous encounters and got found out.
     
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  24. posteador

    posteador Member+

    Dec 29, 2006
    Lincoln, UK
    What a BS penalty that was... they never give those nowadays, when a ball gets shot to a player's hand not more than a metre away. Even worse than the penalty we got against Bolivia in the group stages of Copa America, where the Bolivian at least had time to turn and try and avoid the handball.
     
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  25. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Country:
    Chile
    Bla, bla, bla, blahhhh........

    Next time, have a chilean teach your players how to kick a PK
    :p
     
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