LA Galaxy v. Houston Dynamo, Sunday, October 28

Discussion in 'Houston Dynamo' started by newtex, Oct 22, 2018.

?

Result?

Poll closed Oct 28, 2018.
  1. Dynamo win

    1 vote(s)
    25.0%
  2. Dynamo tie

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Dynamo lose

    1 vote(s)
    25.0%
  4. Sigh. Another long winter awaits.

    2 vote(s)
    50.0%
  1. AcetheTigah

    AcetheTigah Member+

    Apr 6, 2005
    Woodlands, TX
    He's had 4 chances - won the first two and lost the last two. The last two losses showed how the league has changed by hiring high priced MVP type of players.
     
  2. AcetheTigah

    AcetheTigah Member+

    Apr 6, 2005
    Woodlands, TX
    Jordan with more power now that Canetti's gone?

    Does he have the business acumen to sell the owners on how to make higher priced DP players make them more money?
     
  3. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    (1) As currently constructed the team is going nowhere.
    (2) Retention of a significant number of constituent bits probably same result also. Just too many players too old or not good enough.
    (3) You're almost advocating that we stand pat because of the GM which that result is predictable and you already have its best case scenario right now (it can only get worse a year older). If you don't trust the GM to rebuild positively then fire him. I think we all know what we really need is clean house and maybe owners change.
    (4) I mean, you don't like the players, but you don't trust the GM to change them, what is the positive scenario here?
     
    CeltTexan repped this.
  4. Westside Cosmo

    Westside Cosmo Member+

    Oct 4, 2007
    H-Town
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This will be an unpopular opinion (and viewed as racist!!!), but the Dynamo have too many Central/South American chickensh*t guys who aren’t reliable across a full season. I thought the time wasting, handbags, CONCACAF stuff yesterday was distasteful especially because the Dynamo weren’t playing for anything but to be a spoiler. If it was playoff qualification I can get behind it a bit but come on, Martinez gets stepped on and goes down holding his knee like he was ACL’d. Pena delaying restarts and then a stupid slap (which VAR sees all that stuff now), Quioto taking 5 minutes to sub out. Where was all this compete level stuff in July and August?

    Quioto got all worked up like he was going to come on to the field, dude is crazy up and down and seems like he’s a problem waiting to happen if he wants a higher salary in his option year.

    Here’s another problem with our “shop at the Central American Bargain Outlet” roster strategy - most of our “stars” don’t speak enough English to market to most of Houston. That sounds “racist” but even Zlatan speaks enough English to put on TV. It’s a marketability issue , good ‘ok Web Tilton wants these guys on HEB commercials but they can’t say anything I guess unless it’s on Univision.

    And lastly, I find it funny the glee taken in sending Zlatan home without a playoff game since he’s the only reason the Dynamo sold out a home game this year.
     
  5. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    #30 juvechelsea, Oct 29, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2018
    The difference between us and RSL is simply the home fortress. My count they had 1 more road point than we did. RSL has -3 GD and 3 fewer GF. Same GA. They won the close ones at home we didn't. Y'all saw the "comeback losses" thing earlier in the season. To me it all comes down to game management because numberwise I don't think we belong where we finished. And that's not a "Cabezas" comment, that's a 34 game comment. We're finishing down among teams with double digit negative GD, which should mean not even competitive.

    LAG had a positive GD but basically our home record. Three wins better on the road. They get to watch too.

    I think a lot of it had to do with sliding down 13 GA and bad defense. You lose maybe a point every game or two and you're tying the old wins and losing the old ties, just on leaky defense. But I also see it as Cabrera's problem because we were repeatedly in the driver's seat and most games were not like yesterday but instead flipped the other way on us.
     
    Westside Cosmo repped this.
  6. Westside Cosmo

    Westside Cosmo Member+

    Oct 4, 2007
    H-Town
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If you aren’t gonna win more than 1 or 2 road games you have to have the fortress at home to make playoffs. And remember despite all the late goals conceded at home, Dynamo also rescued some points late at home, could have been worse.
     
  7. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    Yeah we are within a GF of last year. Basically the same offense. We also were a point better on the road this year. What changed is +13 GA and 13 fewer home points. The correlation of that math is intriguing and supports the post I just made suggesting it's that slow drip costing you point after point that accumulates. Otherwise we don't belong where we finished in conference. I mean, in reality we do, but on paper we don't.
     
  8. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    #33 juvechelsea, Oct 29, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2018
    The reality check is we were 4 points better than 2016 which was a rotten and basically uncompetitive season. I don't mean that in a good way. I mean how do you have an even GD and basically finish a handful of points ahead of the worst franchise team that could only play for ties? Is it that at least they were drilled and went out many weeks and got those ties over and over?

    I think what you are talking about speaks to my belief this team was in fact competitive, but weighed down by a bad defense that lost repeated games. If your team is competitive most weeks you will be in the game til the end at least. Your relative success is then how many of those razor's edge do you pull off. We pulled off 2-3 by my memory but what I see big picture is we really lost most of them. We'd give up the pivotal goal not score it.

    I do think this is in part on Cabrera because the competitiveness to me means you have enough team to get you there, can you push some buttons and produce the result, or at least plug the holes and hold the result. Cabrera lacks the chops to extract something more. The team is what it is. There is no plan B.

    And Jordan went out and acquired all the underperforming kids and vets. The batting percentage is very low, too low, and my call for a teardown basically reflects I don't see long term foundations in even the ones people kind of like. Can you see a trophy from a team built around Pena? Memo? Fuenmayor? It might be a decent USL team. And those are the "successes" this year. The "failure" list is long. Ceren. Gil. Alvarez. Lundkvist. etc. etc. He did build the forward line, but how many of them want to stay? Who is the long term, "I want to be a Dynamo," foundation? Manotas?
     
  9. naranjableeder

    naranjableeder Member+

    Houston Dynamo
    United States
    Jul 30, 2006
    In the Terraces
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Quioto is childish and immature. He throws a fit getting subbed off all the time and most of the time he has had a shitty game. If he stayed consistent then I would see trying to convince him to stay and give him a raise. I just don't see an over weighing benefit to him staying here. Manotas and Elis have show the class as players in how they carry themselves on and off the field. Mainly Manotas... the kid is a class act all around and really needs to be given a raise this off season.
     
    CeltTexan and *rey* repped this.
  10. DynamoManiac

    DynamoManiac Member+

    Jan 27, 2014
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    It really doesn't matter whether these guys speak English or not. They are completely unrecognizable to the average person. There is limited marketability at best.

    I have no issue at all with hitting Latin America for talent and don't really care what language people speak. Most of the best players in this league are coming out of Latin America - Valeri, Almiron, Martinez, Acosta, etc, etc. You'd be stupid not to focus your efforts there. We just have a mediocre scouting network and have been mediocre in who we get.
     
    palmeiras59, CeltTexan and *rey* repped this.
  11. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    I have zero complaints they did what it took to get the result Sunday. It's been a rotten season and only one player -- Pena -- will have any lingering March hangover.

    What concerns me is (a) the budget and (b) that the concept is crocked. What I am looking at is that we have this lousy batting average, yes, but that if all our Central American stars are rentals then the foundation isn't stable because the sort of value player we are chasing has even bigger ambitions beyond us. Way it's set up we're living off the stars but the stars we're chasing don't see Houston as their end game. So not only will Jordan cripple the team on overall personnel, but when he does get it right on Elis, focus on that "type" doesn't give you a long term foundation. Nor does 30+ year old backs brought in for short term also.

    It's kind of a Carolina Panthers expansion team problem. They were very good very fast for going out and buying a veteran lineup. But it aged out quickly and you're back to square one. This will cause constant pressure as we have to keep refilling the roster every season. And Jordan is not who you want doing it.

    The HGP and draft need to be better where there is something long term/local. They also may need to reassess precisely where they are looking or maybe limit the sheer number of players of the "type." One Elis might be OK. OK, we go forward shopping again. But what if the whole forward line wants out? You can't have a team that only gets half the value players right and then the good ones want to graduate. You can't do that every 2-3 years.

    Maybe it's an "interview" issue. How is Boniek different than Elis. We need players who want to be pillars for the future. Boniek's been here, what, 6 years? Is part of the fabric.
     
  12. Westside Cosmo

    Westside Cosmo Member+

    Oct 4, 2007
    H-Town
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would concur on Manotas. Elis has a lot of CONCACAF in him, extra legs left in late challenges, shoves away from the ball.

    Martinez plays the way all Argentines do, less the actual skill of most.
     
  13. Westside Cosmo

    Westside Cosmo Member+

    Oct 4, 2007
    H-Town
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If we had guys with that skill, it would be a different discussion.

    I do think not having any stars who can speak English does hurt marketing efforts. Fair argument no one would know them in this market anyway. There’s zero way to appreciate how “great” a player’s personality is when the only interview is a poorly designed segment with Cindy Burbano because she can translate. Some of these guys have been on this team for 2 years or more (Boniek) and they are a mystery to most.
     
  14. *rey*

    *rey* Member+

    Feb 22, 2006
    Houston
    Quioto = Kai Kamara in the mental department. such a shame too, because he can give you Elis output at a cheaper price. not worth the hassle tho.

    that's an insult to all the Argentine #10s playing well all over the world. :D
     
  15. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    Meh. I get what you're saying about marketability and in theory maybe at the margins that might matter. But in terms of big picture success, you sure it's not just budget and competitiveness (plus the Astros' resurgence)? We're back to no playoffs. When there's no playoffs both the casual and sophisticated fans question what they are doing. There is no budget, no global stars. There are people sophisticates might appreciate but if the team as a whole loses, who cares.

    Also, I don't feel like they try hard at marketing at all, period. Elis has some personality like Harden or some of the Astros. On a player like Manotas, at that level of production, create some way to sell it.
     
  16. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    Re Quioto, and where do you plan on getting 6 G 12 A from? This reminds me of the lynch mob out after DeRo or Kamara. Both got gone and the team didn't prosper by it.

    https://www.chron.com/sports/dynamo...ms-Dynamo-s-Romell-Quioto-shared-13322412.php

    I hadn't heard of this but searching for his name to get the stats numbers found it. At that point you may do something on moral grounds, who cares about the sporting calculus. That's more problematic characterwise but then we brought Deric back.

    When is his contract up?
     
  17. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    #42 juvechelsea, Oct 29, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2018
    Manotas, I think he's a rare Dynamo player I have seen grow and get better at what he does over time. But my concern in terms of riding that horse is whether people get the difference between Torres and Manotas with and without Elis and Quioto. Without the big dogs Torres was a complete bust. With them he got team record goals. Without the big dogs Manotas was a modestly productive 9 with a half dozen goals. With them he broke Torres' record.

    The fact they sold Torres anyway suggests the franchise at some level grasps this. They plugged someone else in that slot and got even more goals.

    This doesn't mean per se they must be retained at all costs. But Manotas needs to get service and have some running buddies who attract their own markers away from him.

    They also need to understand -- since I think this team has some problems with big picture -- if you undo offense in a less productive way then what you have is a team headed downward on GF -- as a matter of plan -- but allowing a lot of GA. OK, then for the team to be halfway competitive the defense needs to work.
     
  18. El Naranja

    El Naranja Member+

    Sep 5, 2006
    Alief
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You fail to accept the idea that the system is fine but the pieces are flawed, which is something that Matt might, might I stress, be able to handle. It would require fewer fixes than a whole swap on the entire tactics and roster.

    Considering his track record, it'd behoove us to make as few changes as possible so he has fewer chances to f it up.
     
  19. CeltTexan

    CeltTexan Member+

    Sep 21, 2000
    Houston, TX USA
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We do well beating Atlanta 4-0 at home to start 2018, then win on the road coming from down 2-0 to win 3-2 out in L.A.
    It's just that small matter of the "middle part" of the MLS season. Those other 32 matches that caused Cabrera n our boys issues.

    Again, if budget constraints are such a deal breaker for our owners n way of operations going forward, than we MUST grow our own local talent! Other media types speak of our city and the talent pool here, I know our club can succeed in this approach.
     
  20. kruck

    kruck Member+

    Jan 12, 2008
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    SV Werder Bremen
    Hard to tell if the problem is scouting or the fact we are cheap as hell.

    Probably both.
     

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