Review: Klinsmann: The USA is making progress, but we have to be realistic about the World Cup

Germany in '54 and Argentina in '86.

 

Only Germany in '54 wasn't previously seeded. Argentina was seeded in '78 but they were the host nation.

So, since '54 no none previously seeded team has won the WC.

We have our work cutout to get in to that prestigious group but when we do, history has shown that we will remain a powerhouse from that point forward.

 

Sure but it still requires some luck, like not getting those 4 and maybe another 2 like Argentina and the Netherlands in the round of 16.

I think those 6 teams unless they face each other right away in the second round will be in the quarterfinals, so the luck comes in avoiding them as long as possible or upsetting the big one in your bracket before they get going.

I mean 2010 and the USA/Korea/Ghana/Uruguay bracket to the semifinal was a dream come true for all 4 teams.

How many of us would not give up our left testicle (exaggeration) to have a similar path to the semifinals in 2014 (pending we get out of the group)?

 

Huh? 78 is not 86. In 1986 the seeds were Mexico, Brazil and the four semifinalist from '82 (Poland, Germany, Italy and France)

 

I agree with your premise (Jurgen wants to play purty football), but if it comes down to it, I'd rather win ugly than lose pretty. I get the sense that Jurgen won't, as we used to say in my bar hopping days GUE: Go Ugly Early. When he says we have "no chance" to win the WC, I think that comes from a mentality of: we're going to try to go toe to toe against any opponent we face. And, there are several we can't do that against. I love how JK has improved our possession, off the ball movement. I just hope that when the time comes, he's be willing to play whatever-it-takes football. I will say, that if you re-watch the 2002

What made you think I took the question out of context? I thought I made the context clear. Aside from that, I'm not going to repeat my previous post.

 

For some context here is a sampling of what some of the coaches for other countries who have already qualified are saying about their goals and expectations for Brazil 2014:

Japan

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/sports/...n-to-qualify-for-2014-world-cup/#.UkHc7D_heSo

Iran

http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/news/newsid=2154578/index.html

South Korea

http://www.gulf-times.com/sport/192/details/357439/hong-vows-to-unite-and-play-korean-way-for-2014

Netherlands

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/news/van-gaal-dampens-world-cup-expectation

Netherlands

http://blogs.bettor.com/Netherlands...ch-2014-World-Cup-semi-final-at-least-a179523

Costa Rica

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=445323612250047&id=360500597399016

 

IF the injury bug doesn't bite us too badly, and not too many key players aren't in horrible form, and Klinsmann manages us as well as he has managed 2013, then we should indeed have as good a shot as any team apart from the 4 above (actually, I'd say 5 and include Argentina).

But needless to say, there's a long way between where we are and where those 5 are. Then again, the same could be said for pretty much everyone, even some powerhouses like Netherlands or France. This World Cup will be won by one of those 5; one could bet one's house on it and not lose any sleep.

 

Wow those are some low expectations for sure by the Netherlands coach.

 

Now, I don't understand you. My comment is that no unseeded (in the past) team has ever won the WC since '54

 

In that case, yes only Germany '54.

 

The Dutch seem naturally pessimistic.

 

I'd be ecstatic with a Semi-final appearance. Gotta have form going into the tournament and have a little luck with the matchups in the knockout rounds, hopefully getting teams with more of a possession game rather than the powerful countering outfits.

 

Lots of leaking Dikes does that to you

 

Your perspective on JK's statement about World Cup expectations is going to be colored by your perspective on the direction of the program at the time he was hired.

After the loss to Ghana, many people thought we had stagnated, and that we needed JK to take us to the next level. Indeed, JK himself spent the entire 2010 World Cup on US TV talking about how crap our development process was and how badly reforms were needed (he was essentially campaigning for the job).

Some of us, myself included, were saying at the time that in terms of results, there was no stagnation -- we had just found our level for the medium-term -- a country that had a 50/50 shot at the knockouts, and who would have a crap shoot from there. All but about 7-8 countries in the world fit this profile, incidentally.

But JK, we were told, would finally take us to another level. He never directly said this himself, but he strongly implied it through his criticisms of the entire soccer system in America.

Well, is it any wonder then that people find it ironic when JK states prior to his WC with the USA, that his bar for measuring success is essentially the same one we have had for the past dozen or more years?

Yes, he is absolutely accurate in where he is placing that bar. But it's not what we were told by the Fire Bob/sweatpants/nepotism crowd about 4 years ago.

Further, while JK has had some great results and has had more than a marginal impact on our playing style at the senior level, I believe the improvements we have seen have largely been the result of external factors that are completely exogenous to his management, and would have happened anyway. It won't stop him for taking credit for them.

For the record, I like JK as a manager (lately), but I also think Bob Bradley is a solid, tactically astute manager who was never given the credit he deserved by US fans and the current coach. So seeing where JK is setting the bar -- same as four years ago -- is a bit rich.

 

Reading your post I get the sense that you expected more from JK as to player development go. His job is not to develop senior players, his job is to get the best out of the player's current ability. JK has the benefit to have players that improved their game tremendously from previous cycle i.e. MB, JA, EJ, Bedoya etc. plus the addition of new players that are coming in at a higher level than previous recruits i.e. AJ, Brooks, Besler etc. JK's job is to harness this new group in to a style and formation best suited for them. I would be pissed as hell if he tried to pigeon holed them in to a style that doesn't get the best from them, like a defensive formation with only counter as plan of attack. JK has a plan, I just think he himself doesn't know how far this group can go.

 

This is a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" type of situation for Klinsmann. If he says his goal is to win the WC, he's going to get ripped. If he says he doesn't expect the US to compete for WC glory he's going to get criticized for not being optimistic enough.

Give the guy a break. The US is not winning the WC next year.

I see us losing on PKs to Brazil in the final

 

I think it was a bad question, probably asked for the non-soccer audience, for who knows why. Why a bad question? Because there is no decent answer. We all know what the real answer is.

No matter what JK says, he is going to get criticized, while really, no matter what he says, no one should criticize him.

Imagine if he says, "Yes, we can win the WC." The same people slamming him right now would slam him even harder as being a dreamer, etc. The sports talk shows need to fill space, so they figure they can do 15 minutes on this subject.

Since some people have opined on the subject, what is a little disheartening are the numbers, or lack there of, of US field players in top leagues. Heck, we only have 2 GKs playing at the highest level, and since you only need 1, that dearth is passing. If it were 2003, I think most of us thought we would have a decent number of field players in top leagues. Granted, MLS is better than it was, but, other than MB and SK, we don't have any players playing for a top 4 team in one of the better leagues (EPL, La Liga, BL, Seria A, Holland, France, Belgium). We have some in Mexico, so that is a glimmer of hope. Once you think about the lack of players at top teams, I think our USMNT performance over the past decade has been quite remarkable.

And since we are on the subject, let's give a hand to Demarcus Beasley. It's been a while and I think people have forgotten how effective he was for PSV, doing quite well in the CL, including the semis, against a long list of top teams.

 

I started out as a Klinsman hater. My stance has changed somewhat to the point that I am not completely convinced either way, but one thing has not changed. I think Klinsi is very good at not answering difficult questions and he is extremely good at making sure that he gets credit for all of the success of the national team. (including some of the success that came before he was hired)

 

I agree with you that changing the developmental system is not the senior team manager's job. But it was JK who made this argument the central part of his campaign for the job. Which many of us pointed out at the time was ridiculous and not a reason to hire him.

I don't want to get into it because I feel like I've already presented my thoughts on the issue. But the criticism of JK here isn't that his comments aren't accurate -- they very much are -- it's that they're rich coming from a guy who argued 4 years ago that everything about US Soccer was crap on the same day they achieved the result he is *hoping for* next summer.

 

I think the biggest difference Klinsmann has brought is the attitude.

I'm not saying Bob's was bad but Klinsmann definitely brings a bit of arrogance, swagger, and bite (remember the whole drama over JK wanting the team to be more mean) that he is trying to duplicate in the team.

He is trying to convince the players that anything is possible and get rid of the naivete and self doubt.

 

And what did people think JK was gonna say?

2 maybe 3 sides should be disappointed if they don't win it: Spain, Brazil, maybe Germany, Italy

Another 3 maybe 4 should be disappointed to not make semi's: Holland, Argentina, Uruguay

The rest are gonna be happy getting out of the group and like JK said its a almost a crapshoot in round of 6 and quarterfinals.

 

What else is new? Could not this be applied to just about every coach of national or club teams. It comes down to ego, and I do not think that his is much larger than any other coach. And to some extent it is deserved. He was a hell of a player...so let us hope he will end up being a hell of a coach.

 

I dunno. I mean, we beat Mexico 2-0 in Columbus, and led the hex on the day we qualified. When has that ever happened?

 

This made me laugh.

 

From what I read, Klinsmann believes that we were a top 20 team and have progressed to a top 15 team and he's shooting to be a top 10 team. In essence, he's saying that he hopes to be better than Ghana, Mexico and shooting for England and Portugal level. If I were to guess, he would be satisfied with a semi-final appearance but is realistic that we can still lose at the group stage. If you think that at this point we should have no fear of the group stage I think you misunderstand how crucial the draw is to most everybody. There are really only three teams that don't fear the group stage, historically Brazil and Germany, on current form Spain. Everyone else is hoping for a good draw and no key player being injured.