The player pool peaked in 2014. But there's a reason that so many people try to retroactively argue instead that 2009 or 2010 were better, and that's because the coaching has been a disaster since Bradley was fired in 2011. If the US is willing to fire managers for losing to Mexico in a Gold Cup final, then that's fine as long as the same standard is held moving forward. Despite the coaching, the wheels didn't fall off the bus until the second half of the decade for two reasons: (1) the player pool didn't really start to decline until 2015-16 and (2) the US treads water by hosting so many competitions.
Gordon Bradley (no relation), Dettmar Kramer, Al Miller and Manfred Schellscheidt, successive managers between 1973 and 1975. Combined win percentage: 0.00%. Combined loss percentage: 100.00%. Combined goals for: 4 Combined goals against: 35 A 4-0 defeat to Bermuda was probably the crowning achievement of that period. Be careful when you bandy about terms like "of all-time".
I would say decline started in 2014 and klinnsmann as youth youth director radically accelerated the decline. We are absolute shite now. Our 1994 team would beat us. Probably our 1998 team as well. So it's not fair at all to compare coaches as our talent pool is no where as good as the 1994 talent pool at large. We have lost a generation of players due to the seeds of klinnsmann and us hyperinflated expectations of youth players and pushing where they should play in their tweens. See adu etc (possibly pulisic if he transfers for 70 million to epl soon) we have not had ONE US BORN TwEEN successfully make it the past fiveish years, largely in part to hyperinflated expectations and klinnsmann.
Keep in mind that when Klinsmann arrived he talked a lot about the "lost generation" of players that made up the U23 team at the time. The fact that we didn't have "in their prime players" for the recent 2018 WCQers was seen from a mile away by those paying attention to the 2016 U23 Olympic qualifiers. The fact that the U23 team at that time was so poor had nothing to do with Klinsmann. So while I agree that Klinsmann bears responsibility, it really took a village. We were struggling with player development and advancement way before he took over. The problem there was really that the players weren't advancing in club soccer, and barely being given a chance in MLS. Keep in mind that half of the clubs in MLS have been founded since 2011. So they barely have a first team culture yet, much less have a clue what they're doing with youth and player development. Those paying careful attention to the US U20s see a lot of good things going on there. The current U20 team has glided thru qualification to the World Cup, and are in the final of the CONCACAF U20 Championships against Mexico. That's without Adams, Durkin, Weah, Carleton, Amon, and others. People criticize Tab Ramos for some reason, but he is the one USSF coach that consistently meets expectations. People may have issues with style of play or player selection or whatever...……………….but he's been to back-to-back World Cup quarterfinals.
I would argue that attitudes in MLS have clearly failed the US national team. How many 21 or younger American attacking players have really been given the time to break through in MLS since Jozy Altidore in 2007? Nevertheless, even though the player pool declined since the peak in 2014, a player pool with guys Pulisic, Bradley, Brooks, Altidore, Johnson, Cameron, Yedlin Chandler, Wood, Besler, Guzan, etc. should have been enough to muddle through to the World Cup, at a minimum. The 2 managers should have been able to put something together out of that group.
A bit unfair as during most of that period MLS was still reliant on players coming through the draft at 21 or 22 years old. It was only from 2015 onwards that a significant number of young HGPs were signed. The EPL system has been around twice as long as the MLS one and they've just become competitive. Anyway, MLS is a business and teams will play the best 11 players available like any club in any league worldwide. It's not MLS' job to develop players for the USMNT, it's a side-effect of producing the best players possible.
I don't watch MLS, but it ain't MLS's job to develop the US MNT. It is there job to provide entertainment that the paying public will pay to see. They're doing a fairly good job of it, my eyes aside. We commonly conflate the downturn in the USMNT with a failure of MLS, but we have to keep the two separate, if only to make sure that the main problems are being properly addressed. The two (IMHO) being: failure to develop technically good youth players, and failure to develop coaches that can produce technically good players. MLS, like the head coach of the USMNT, should not be tasked with either of those, nor should they be blamed for the dearth of both. It is the US Soccer Federation that should be solely responsible for the development of the game, its players and coaches, from the grassroots all the way through retirement of its elite players and coaches from the game. We have to separate MLS from any blame that we give for USMNT failures. There is certainly no anti-American player bias in MLS; if an American is better for a position than a foreign player in MLS, he will start. It's not MLS coaches' jobs to defer to nationality when their career is on the line. The head coach of the USMNT should also not be asked to develop players. He should take the best 11 at the time, have a tactic that he can train the players to execute, be able to change that tactic on the fly when he needs to in game, and have his players execute that one as well. He needs to diagnose weaknesses in the other team, diagnose where the other coach is exploiting his, and manage his team to offset or take advantage. He needs to be able to identify the right talent available at the time to do so and alternates when needed. That should be his only job requirement. If he can maintain a healthy and collegial team spirit and motivate his players to play better than they should or fight harder when losing, great. We can't muddy the waters with blaming MLS or any head coach. We have to keep a clear line of blame focused the organization whose mission statement is, and I quote: "to make soccer, in all its forms, a preeminent sport in the United States and to continue the development of soccer at all recreational and competitive levels." They are paid to do so, and are, at least on the men's side, just flat out failing.
A lot of fair points except for anything to do with klinnsmann. If I ever get the time I will list alllll the youth that he cajoled over to Europe. All of them failed miserably except or desipte Bobby wood. I generally try to be careful about blame and having a mob and pitchfork mentality but sometimes it does fit the crime. I guess the real blame goes to ussf for not having a modicum of competency to quickly identify a fraud.
That is just stupid. Please assemble that list then you will realise that you don't have a credible point.
Klinsmann coined the term "lost generation" after the squad, coached by Caleb Porter, failed to qualify for the Olympics. Most of the squad went on to become lock starters in MLS. Unfortunately players like Morales who destroyed Mexico as a #6 in the friendly, Chandler, and Williams were not released by their clubs. Shea Agudelo Adu Corona Mix Okugo Villafana Opara Kitchen Sarkodie Hamid Bench: Sean Johnson, Boyd, Bunbury, Jeffery, Valentin, Sheanon Williams, ...
Let's see the list because I guarantee its no different than the rate we had been sending player for the last 20 years. This statement just seems incredibly biased and shortsighted. If anything Klinsmann had key players during their "peak" windows coming back from Europe and it really hurt our pool.
Ok heres a start take a look at lineup: https://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2014/10/13/20/51/141013-u23mnt-brazil-vs-usa How many of those players did klinnsmann directly quote or do I have to do the work for you as well? It goes on and on...
I could not disagree more. 2010 had in-their-primes Donovan and Dempsey, the two best players in US Soccer history. By 2011, Donovan was disinterested in soccer, and Dempsey was well in decline by 2014. The issue that every coach since has been trying to manage is that the US System, including MLS, developed no creative replacements anywhere near their level until Christian Pulisic. Even now, the US has an army of some good, and some very average number 8s. This bland variety of player is what US Soccer was developing for years. Developing creative players is improving at the academy level, but not yet at the senior club levels. So for the USMNT, the lack of creativity remains very much an issue. MLS academies are developing more creative players now, but those kids are voting against MLS contracts. They see creative players like Carleton and Pomykal who cannot get minutes, and they opt out of their own systems and head to Europe. Take a club like RSL, which has been doing most of the right things for years. It is not lost on kids like Soto and Ledezma that wannabe hard man Mike Petke gives foreign players 5 chances for every 1 chance young Americans get. So it is no surprise both tell me the reasons they left were (1) wanting to play in Europe, (2) Petke, and (3) MLS. This is what Bradley, Klinsmann, Arena, and Sarachan have all been up against since 2010. A US System that produced zero international-ready creativity from Donovan and Dempsey, until Pulisic. The sad truth for the next coach is that aside from Pulisic, there remains no proven creative options. Lots of unproven potential, either not being given chances in MLS, or still trying to break through in Europe.
I disagree with your disagreement about my specific point, but generally agree with your larger point. Bocanegra and Cherundolo were clear losses, as were the damaged versions of Onyewu and Holden that played in 2010. But the 2014 team had an actually healthy Beasley, Besler, Cameron, and a whole bunch of very talented German-Americans. Dempsey clearly peaked after 2010 and played a better World Cup in 2014 (as did Tim Howard), and Donovan was clearly a Best XI player still. It's fair to argue that the FIFA rule change of 2009 may have papered over the cracks for the US. If not for that rule change, then maybe the US team of 2014 would have been weaker than 2010. I agree with your points about the failures of US player development and MLS, and actually think it should be expanded. Has there been a single US creative player or striker that has broken through in MLS at 21 or younger since Bruce Arena started playing Altidore in 2007? I'm struggling to think of any. That's stunning, given that (1) MLS has been expanding at an astronomical pace in the last 10 years and (2) MLS is desperately attempting to keep player salaries low by any means necessary. There should be opportunities there for US players, but it hasn't been happening. As you say, box-to-box midfielders are getting opportunities, as are defenders, but it's just not happening for creative players or strikers.
It’s also not the USMNT’ job to promote MLS players or even sadly games for marketing purposes. Yet we have SUM.
What does SUM have to do with player selection? (And remember before SUM USSF couldn't give NT rights away).
This is like invoking Abraham Lincoln to defend the policies of modern Republicans. Bundling TV rights in another era has nothing to do with the awfulness of modern SUM.
Most of what you said is very accurate, but this statement is no longer true and hasn't been for quite some time. MLS used to have almost no players who made $1M per year. Now it has dozens, and many more making close to that.
SUM doesn't pick the manager, SUM doesn't pick the players, anyone who things it does hasn't been paying attention.
The minimum salary in MLS, which is earned by a handful of senior roster players has increased 275% in 9 years. It's now above the average family income in the US. Not only that, the players making 20k in 2009 were 22 or 23 year-old college grads. Today they are 17 and 18 year-old home-grown players. When Graham Zusi was 23 years-old he was a draft-pick making $30k. Today, 19 year-old Tyler Adams makes $153k. 18 year-old Andrew Carleton, who hasn't had a run in Atlanta's first team, makes $75k. The average salary for 16-19 year-olds in the US...$21,840. So those players do OK.