Klinsi rejection: the real reason according to ESPN espanol this morning

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by MightyMouse, Dec 8, 2006.

  1. MightyMouse

    MightyMouse BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 19, 2003
    Island paradise east of the mainland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Country:
    United States
    The real reason Klinsmann walked away from the deal, according to ESPN espanol this morning, was that Klinsmann asked for guarantees from both the USSF and MLS that he would get the players he wanted for the upcoming tournaments. According to a reporter from ESPN, they mentioned his name and I forgot it, in an exclusive interview that Klinsmann walked away from the deal once both MLS and the USSF did NOT guarantee that all star players would be available for the tournaments.

    That was all that was said and it makes sense. If Klinsmann is going to go out there and represent the USA and he doesn't get 100% backing for the players he chooses then there is no need for him to be coaching as it takes control out of his hands. This was the sticking point as all else HAD BEEN AGREED ON and Trecker was correct in that assumption. Klinsmann had agreed but did an abrupt U-turn when this point came up in later talks.

    This distrubs me greatly, we had who we wanted and he was willing to coach us but the USSF and MLS together, not Gulati, screwed this up.
     
  2. Grooveblaster

    Grooveblaster New Member

    Sep 15, 2006
    Yeah, MLS rears it's ugly head again.
     
  3. bshredder

    bshredder BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 23, 1999
    Club:
    Millwall FC
    Country:
    United States
    Seems odd to walk away from a deal just because of that. There should have been room to negotiate.

    Sometimes you don't always get your star players. Sometimes it's best not to go with your star players so that you can work in new players and test how deep your player pool is.

    I bet there is more to the story than this.
     
  4. sregis

    sregis Member

    Nov 5, 1999
    Hoboken, USA
    shame on him for demanding authority and players on the highest level, and welcome all doormats!
     
  5. MightyMouse

    MightyMouse BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 19, 2003
    Island paradise east of the mainland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Country:
    United States
    It is what was reported on ESPN espanol this morning from an "exclusive interview" with a reporter that they named but I forgot cause I was just waking up. The name of the reporter mentioned is someone we all know and it is someone I have heard mentioned many times before. Yes this is a deal breaker, if Klinsmann asked for guarantees that he gets who he asks for and then doesn't get that guarantee then it immediately ties one hand behind his back and he won't have it. This is what they are talking about in terms of jostling of CONTROL, if you can't get a guarantee that you get the players you ask for then you can't field your best for the upcoming tournaments.

    I am assuming this has a lot to do with the USSF bringing in Euro players, whatever guarantees that come with that with the clubs from the USSF, and the USSF taking risks? I don't know what goes on in order to get certain players free from club commitments for say Copa America and the Gold Cup. If even MLS doesn't guarantee it then Klinsmann probably said, "well f-ck this, this won't work!"
     
  6. Bruce S

    Bruce S Member+

    Sep 10, 1999
    no coach can demand that every player be there. It is just not possible when your players are spread all over the earth. Players would lose their positions on clubs. After all, even Brazil can't get all of their players together except for the WC.
     
  7. MightyMouse

    MightyMouse BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 19, 2003
    Island paradise east of the mainland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Country:
    United States
    True, I don't know what ESPN meant by guarantees though. Is it something Klinsmann put in his contract that didn't fly with MLS or USSF? Is it Klinsmann saying do your best effort to get these players regardless? Don't know what the hell it means really... I hope for a transcript of this said interview sometime today. WHY IS IT that ESPN espanol always gets the main soccer stories and ESPN are just happy to place a small blurb about the rejection and then on to basketball. ESPN espanol and ESPN can't possibly be any different on their news coverage...
     
  8. tab5g

    tab5g Member+

    May 17, 2002
    this is a reasonable point.

    but it certainly is reasonable for a (potential) coach to object to a limited roster(s) for the GC and CA.

    I thought it was written somewhere that SG had heard from all of the candidates that it was ok that the USSF accept the CA invitation.

    seems like a real scheduling problem, and if this report is accurate, then it really makes the issue of an MLS summer break (or off-season) all that more relevant.
     
  9. tab5g

    tab5g Member+

    May 17, 2002
    because gringos (in general) don't care about sissy-ball (a.k.a. soccer).

    although, futbol is very newsworthy.
     
  10. tab5g

    tab5g Member+

    May 17, 2002
    the whole issue of player availability for the summer 2007 tourneys certainly makes some sense in light of the claim that Klinsi seemed more open to accepting the job if he were allowed to start in 2008.

    i'm still strongly in the camp that thinks JK could be back, (once he has time to work out an exit from his adidas contract and once a care-taker coach gets us through the GC and CA).

    the problem will be that USSF won't want to a) get rid of an interim coach who may have been successful during those months in 2007 and b) hire a guy (JK) who has just walked away from the negotiating table at such a late hour.
     
  11. Li mu bei

    Li mu bei Member

    Jun 5, 2001
    Kettering, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Country:
    United States
    I agree 100%
     
  12. Prazan

    Prazan New Member

    Aug 28, 2006
    Prague
    It sounds like the USSF spin machine is up and running this morning. Realizing what a PR debacle they have on their hands, they seem to have decided to blame MLS, since they obviously need a scapegoat. Unfortunately for them, this doesn't pass the smell test.

    We are to believe that they gave him all the money he wanted, got him to agree to leave Adidas, and gave him the control he wanted, but then he turned them down because they couldn't guarantee, in writing, that he could have Mapp for the Gold Cup? Come on.

    I can believe it fell apart due to control issues or even money, but this is utter nonsense. It would be one thing if we were talking about WC qualifiers, but these summer tournaments just aren't that important. And the idea that this is such a dealbreaker that no compromise could be found is laughable.

    On the bright side, Sunil still has a couple of hours to come up with a better excuse before the press conference.
     
  13. EEUU

    EEUU Member

    Mar 4, 2000
    Massapequa, NY USA
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Country:
    United States
    I don't get it: Since when can the Federation guarantee Star players for tournaments? As for MLS, most of our "Star" players are playing in Europe, and when we can't get them, we get an ALL-MLS team, usually with the best players available there. This doesn't make sense to me.
     
  14. Master O

    Master O Member+

    Jul 7, 2006
    Country:
    United States
    Wow, we lost a coach over this? Gulati must be just as pissed as we are!
     
  15. tab5g

    tab5g Member+

    May 17, 2002
    is this "abrupt U-turn" the type of surprise for which Klinsi is so well known?

    i doubt he would have initally agreed to not have the type of control over player selection he requires/needs.

    USSF/MLS have a tough situation of needing to play in events like the CA, but also choosing to keep the domestic league schedule active during June/July.

    players can't be in two places at once.

    anyone who will coach the USMNT in the summer of 2007 needs to admit a certain amount of "defeat", in terms of calling/using players per their coaching wishes. -- not a great situation for USSF to be in when trying to hire a coach.
     
  16. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    I thought FIFA rules said if a Federation asked for a player and followed the procedures, they had to release them, especially for big tournaments like Gold Cup and Copa America.

    I can't imagine that the USSF would hire a coach and put limitations on who he call up. So, if the coach wants a player, he get him. He might piss off the player's team, but the team has to release him. (Unless it's a friendly on a non-FIFA matchday.)

    This excuse just doesn't pass the smell test. Even Sunil, for all his well-documented arrogance, wouldn't hire a coach and not give him the autonomy to call-up whomever he wanted.
     
  17. GalaxyOne

    GalaxyOne Member+

    Dec 6, 2005
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Country:
    United States
    That's true about working in new players being a good idea sometimes, but that decision should be fully up to the coach. If he would have had to beg or lobby to get certain players and wasn't in control, I can see why he wouldn't want the job.
     
  18. JoeW

    JoeW New Member

    Apr 19, 2001
    Northern Virginia, USA
    I can't believe this is true. Because if it is, than Klinsmann wasn't serious about the job, he was just looking for an excuse to back out of a tentative agreement.

    Look gang--no-one always gets all the players they want. Even when you can "technically" require a club to release those players, let's face it--if you tell a club that they're going to give someone up for a couple of weeks b/c of a tournament, they will fight it. Keller at Millwall, JOB at Ajax, Reyna at Rangers--there are plenty of cases where Arena could have insisted that a manager release the player but it would have cost that player his starting job. Compounding that is that I don't think FIFA would require clubs to release players for those tournaments b/c they aren't international dates. Furthermore, if USSF went to Kasey Keller and said "Kasey, we want you to spend your entire off-season, from June through July playing in the Gold Cup followed by the Copa Liberatores" Keller wouldn't say "yes--I'll be there." The Euro players simply won't give up that much of their limited off-season. I don't think there is anyway USSF can guarantee that will happen without threatening players.

    Part of the reality of coaching the USNT is that you have to make nice with managers in other countries b/c if you just demand the release of players, it may cost them their starting job.

    As for MLS, I thought most people had agreed that it wasn't realistic to expect the same group of players to attend 2-4 friendlies in Jan-May, than a 2-3 week camp in May, than do the Gold Cup for 3 weeks, followed by Copa Liberatores for 2-3 weeks. MLS can't shut down. I'm not going to shed tears for the LAG but if Landon Donovan is going to play 2-4 games for you from the start of the season to July, that's a really tough deal. There are a number of MLS teams that would be hammered by this if a NT coach took the same players for camp and then two tournies.

    Finally, I have never heard of USSF saying that they want to control who gets invited to camp. My interpretation (and it's my "interpretation") from this article is that Klinsmann is saying "when I want Keller to be in camp and both tournaments, I want you to guarantee that will happen." In short, it sounds like he doesn't want to do the persuading and sweet-talking and relationship management that is part of the job, especially when you're on a different calendar and many players are overseas.
     
  19. Ghost

    Ghost Member+

    Sep 5, 2001
    This makes no sense. Who was this interview with, again?
     
  20. m vann

    m vann Moderator
    Staff Member

    Colorado Rapids & Celtic FC
    Sep 10, 2002
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Celtic FC
    Country:
    United States
    I had my reservations whether to believe this reported info. Club's have the option to release players for international duty. They pay their salary and they are the ones that are screwed if thier players get hurt. MLS looks out for their investments and their assets. How many MLS players are considered "must haves" for tournaments, most of these players are European based.
     
  21. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    That report sounds like a steaming pile of manure to me.

    I thought, according to FIFA rules that Int'l Tournaments (& Federations) trump domestic leagues and club teams. That players, if selected, cannot be held back by their club teams except for injury (and of course there are "injuries"). This is why many African players dissappear for 6 weeks during the winter in Euro domestic leagues, they head home for the African Nations Club.

    Yes, I understand many of the Euro based players will want some time off from one or both tourneys. Since most of them are not stars for their club team, they would prefer returning to training camp to fight for their spot in the first team. MLS teams though, need to suck it up, they want to play during this time.
     
  22. tab5g

    tab5g Member+

    May 17, 2002
    USSF certainly has a crowded calendar in 2007.

    they opted to accept the CA invitation.

    they are hosting the GC.

    and they know full well the MLS wants to play through the summer.

    that's a lot for the players.

    it's also a lot for a new NT coach to come in and try to gracefully handle and attempt to build a winning/strong program.

    of course, who knows if this is really the breaking point of the negotiations, but it seems like it is a tricky/bad area.

    2008 seems like such a more relaxing/enjoyable time for a coach as they work toward 2010 qualification.
     
  23. MightyMouse

    MightyMouse BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 19, 2003
    Island paradise east of the mainland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Country:
    United States
    I suppose we may, may not, find out more details today at 12pm. I do hope that this exclusive ESPN interview shows up sometime today on the net, I wouldn't want my credibility destroyed now... :) I can say I am not making this stuff up, I understood exactly what was said on ESPN espanol to be the deal breaker was star player guarantees from MLS and USSF... whatever that means...
     
  24. tab5g

    tab5g Member+

    May 17, 2002
    it means if USSF wants the best (or at least most-desirable) coaches for their NT, then MLS needs to not play during the CA and the WC.

    MLS and USSF needs to really work to unclutter the player's calendars, or unify them, or whatever. my hope is that MLS would be able to figure something out by the 2010 season, but when USSF accepted the CA invitation, I held out the ridiculous hope that the 2007 MLS season might have a break this summer. of course MLS will play through the summer in '07, and it appears MLS/USSF have an agreement not to raid the league and take away all the best players for the GC and/or CA (two events that aren't "that" major, at least when compared to the WC).
     
  25. MightyMouse

    MightyMouse BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 19, 2003
    Island paradise east of the mainland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Country:
    United States
    That would be sweet if it can be done.
     

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