Kick it out? Slop or good coaching?

Discussion in 'Coach' started by Timbuck, Oct 31, 2015.

  1. Timbuck

    Timbuck Member

    Jul 31, 2012
    My Gu11 team must have had 75 throw ins today. They need to ice their arms more than their legs after all of those throw ins.
    I'd rather play against a kick and chase team than a team who's first line of defense is to boot it out of bounds. So frustrating !!
     
  2. rca2

    rca2 Member+

    Nov 25, 2005
    Is this a serious question? I have kicked balls out of bounds lots of times to stop counters and give my team more time to recover.

    For U-Littles though you might have game plans based on development objectives rather than winning the match.

    I taught U10gs how to win the ball by zone pressing and trapping the first attacker. Touch line makes it easier to win the ball. So I didn't teach kids to kick the ball over the touch line as a tactic. I did mention to them clearing a ball near the goal over the end line as an alternative to force a restart at the corner.
     
  3. nicklaino

    nicklaino Member+

    Feb 14, 2012
    Brooklyn, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    There are a lot of double teaming near the touchine line by the defensive mid in a zone defense. But the idea is not to kick the ball off the touch line.
     
    rca2 repped this.
  4. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I'm okay with kicking it out of bunds. My director prefers they turn and face and go 1v1 to learn to get out of trouble.

    I believe that there's a proper situation to kick out and go 1v1.
     
    rca2 repped this.
  5. Timbuck

    Timbuck Member

    Jul 31, 2012
    Let me be a little more specific. My team played today against a team that kicked it out of bounds every time they they got a touch on the ball in their defending third of the field. There was no attempt to connect a pass or even look for a teammate. Their first instinct was to kick it as far out of bounds as possible.
    I guess we should have tried better to keep possession, but we were throwing the ball in every 20 seconds.
    We were up 1-0 and wound up losing 2-1. If we won. I wouldn't care so much how the other team played. But it was crap soccer.
     
  6. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Well that's slop then. Next time make em pAy! Inch down the line with throws toward thencornern flag. Remember no offside in a throw in.
     
  7. nicklaino

    nicklaino Member+

    Feb 14, 2012
    Brooklyn, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Tim I can't bring myself to watch a game like that. Sometimes you see that when a team gets the lead they try to run out the clock by doing that. It might even be considered time wasting by the official.
     
  8. Timbuck

    Timbuck Member

    Jul 31, 2012
    In hindsight, we should have tried to be more patient and really worked on switching the field better. We've focused so much on playing the ball out wide and we didn't adjust to take the middle of the field when they gave it to us.
    (Oh. And the ref blew a call. He called my keeper for handling when she allegedly came over the line when distrusting the ball to a teammate. Not sure if she was or wasn't. Not a call I usually see. But the real rub is that he restarted incorrectly with in indirect free kick just outside the box. We didn't set a wall. Should have been a direct free kick from there. Other team scored off of a bouncing ball after the serve in.).
     
  9. dcole

    dcole Member+

    May 27, 2005
    #9 dcole, Nov 1, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2015
    I teach my U10 boys to never clear the ball and never intentionally kick the ball out of bounds. We are playing solely for the purpose of development and neither of those tactics help with development at all. We sometimes lose the ball in bad positions because we try to play out of danger, but we aren't going to sacrifice developmental objectives in favor of game results. The boys know when they are in danger and when it would be easier to just play the ball out or clear it upfield. Teaching them to take the easy way isn't going to help them in the long run though.
     
  10. rca2

    rca2 Member+

    Nov 25, 2005
    #10 rca2, Nov 1, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2015
    For teaching the fundamentals of tactics, I think there is nothing better than a keep-away game without goals followed by adding goals, i.e., adding penetration. It teaches them to look for the space rather than follow a pattern without thought. The problem with teaching team tactics to U-Littles instead of principles of play is that good attacking tactics presume good defensive tactics by the opponents, which isn't always the case. I think you just need to refresh them on the fundamentals a bit so that they remember to look for the open space.

    I wouldn't worry about training to win last week's game. Just keep the players focused on the future and improving their skills. For exercises, rather than have the defending side use bad tactics (which I think is counterproductive), unbalance the sides so that there will always be open space. This way the defense practices playing numbers down for a change, a better challenge for a zone defense.
     
  11. Timbuck

    Timbuck Member

    Jul 31, 2012
    Because we've been successful so far this season, teams have been really bunkering against us the last few games. This was the first time they've bunkered and blasted it out.
     
  12. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    Its slop. I've seen this before. Defender chases the ball down, back to the play. Rather than being taught to take a look before reaching the ball, perhaps shielding the ball, Bam! Out of bounds. Shows auto coaching. "No matter what, kick it out" type of teaching. Instead of perhaps win the ball if there is only one attacker can you make a soccer move to beat them? Can you play it back to your GK? Do you have another teammate in a support position? Shows no thought for the team.

    There are situations. At my practices during scrimmage, we play 'no dumping.' Here is the environment to get better at defensive ball handling skills (and slowing the game down to allow your team to get back into position).
     
  13. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Sorry to the OP for hijacking...

    Here's the situation(s) my DOC and I disagree, when the player is facing upfield in our defensive third—try to play out. But when our player is running down a, say, long ball to the flag or endline with no immediate support and a defender on his back, then by all means put it to touch, IMO.

    There are very very few situations where it would be wise to turn and face that defender. I'm just trying to reaffirm good decisionmaking.
     
  14. Timbuck

    Timbuck Member

    Jul 31, 2012
    It depends. This can be one of your options.
    What other options are there?
    1. Play your keeper up higher for the long balls
    2. Make sure your defense is supporting
    3. Not a bad time for a foul on the attacker near midfield (some will say this is worse than kicking it out).
    4. How are they playing a long ball so easy? If your back line is up high, then your forward players need to apply heavy pressure to break up the counter attack.
    5. Is your opposite side defender in a good position to support or is she marking a wing player that can be left alone. (This happened to us last weekend. Team played their forwards very, very wide when off the ball. If the ball was on the left side, my right defender was sticking too close to the attacker on her side. I want her to be aware that she's out there, but a big switch isn't as big of a threat as a 1v1 on he left side.).
     
  15. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    Your situation is fine and yes, I understand the desire to do so. I just don't think it should be 'automatic' (and you see coaches that will yell "you should ALWAYS kick that ball out).
    Before dumping can you get the ball under control? If so you may get a situation where that defender/attacker will over pursue your player, if the case, the player can turn up field without much pressure. Or possibly play it back to the goalkeeper. As long as that defender has that good positioning between the ball and attacker, I like to see some composure and not go with the 'ALWAYS'.

    I also don't let my goalkeeper off the hook. It should be them as the eyes of their defender to instruct (or suggest) what to do. Give your teammate information.

    There is one girls team locally that has their girls to automatically, in this situation, with back to attacker, do a step over, turn to the sideline in order to clear. It is amazing that opposing teams haven't figured this out.
     
  16. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    That's what my DOC would like Zico/Half Zico to face then play out.

    Ah... this is turning into a good/educational discussion for me...

    I'll buy into an argument that:

    a) we can control, turn and face and still have a chance to dump it out without risking too much.
    b) teammates should put in an equal hustle to support, so if teammate does face up then we have a chance to play out. I'm imagining a situation where A runs down the ball, faces up and finds three teammates (2 field players and a GK) to play out too for a short simple pass. We can still put it out if the opponent's are pressing smartly as a group.
    c) GK communication to face up or dump it out should be clear.
     
    cleansheetbsc repped this.
  17. dcole

    dcole Member+

    May 27, 2005
    Another option for the defender in @elessar78's scenario is to shield the ball on the line and try to either earn a throw in for your own team or succeed in turning the ball up the line. I completely disagree that there is any scenario in which playing the ball out of bounds is "always" the right play, so I don't think you should take the decision away from the defender. If you do, you're certainly not aiding their development.
     
  18. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    And this becomes as predictable as a dump (though keeping in play is far more impressive). The fact that other teams, if they figure this out can defend it.

    As a soccer referee and a CPA, I am skeptical to solutions that start out 'never' and 'always.' Every (yes, I know) is a unique opportunity and players need to realize the situation that they are in, what solutions are available to them. Lots of If/then's and can they program themselves to overcome them.
     
  19. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    The 'dump' is always there as a solution. There is no reason to go for it just because your back is to the play. If there is someone on your shoulder, near the box? Sure. If you are 40 yards from your goal with 3 yards between you and an opponent? No way.
     
  20. danielpeebles2

    Dec 3, 2013
    that's why we teach our teams how to do throw ins correctly and quickly during practice. There's always someone on the other teams that's going to get desperate and kick it out of bounds, and in my case it's going to be ingrained in some players before they get to me and I can only curb their habit a bit.


    On the extreme, we played this one poor team that hadn't won a game all season. After we were up by several goals I had finally convinced my team to stop playing defense and just let them score. They couldn't score because their biggest player would kick the ball out of bounds whether he had the ball or a team mate had the ball. He did it every single time. they finally scored one goal with 3 seconds left when he was rotated out.
     
  21. CoachP365

    CoachP365 Member+

    Money Grab FC
    Apr 26, 2012
    Slop :)

    I'm biased though, my current team (u14) is the merger of two u12 teams, and many of the lesser skilled kids I picked up from the other team were taught this as their first defensive tactic. Took a good year for them to grasp the new tactics - look for support, go back and provide support since your partner isn't going to just blast it out, etc...
     

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