Keller, Bocanegra, Dempsey: Wigan v Fulham (09/15) [R]

Discussion in 'Yanks Abroad Gameday' started by Clint Eastwood, Sep 15, 2007.

  1. golazo68

    golazo68 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 21, 2004
    Brazil
    I agree, but he was closer to the goal on the first one, at a better angle, and had a slower ball to deal with.

    The second one was coming much harder (he could have tried to one-time it, but it would have been hard. Hitting outside of foot with ball coming from behind him is extremely difficult. Alternatively, hitting it with inside of foot didn't give him best angle either.

    So he decided to trap it, and either aim for the corner or nutmeg the goalie (I can't tell which). He didn't really have an angle, since goalie did good job of closing.

    If we could magically go back in time, I think Clint *may* have chosen to let it run a bit further in front of him on the initial settling touch, and blast it up into the near corner. Of course, any more time he took on that settling touch meant goalie coming out, closing down options (as well as trailing defender).

    Remember the Christmas goal last year vs. West Ham by Beasley? A shot like that.

    Bang-bang no matter what, and he could easily sky the shot over the bar (upper corner, near corner) vs. bury it.

    I think that the chance after the goal was harder by a decent amount (not huge but decent) over either the Villa or 1st goal vs. Wigan. Largely 'cause the goalie did the correct thing and closed down the angle quickly (vs. Wigan)
     
  2. DempC

    DempC Member

    Jul 31, 2007
    I find it funny that the British press (and many folks on here as well) are dedicating all of this analysis to the misses of the sole Fulham goal-scorer in the Wigan game and overall team leading goal scorer as well as 2nd leading EPL goal-scorer.

    I try to steer clear from cries of bias, but I think it's quite readily apparent that it exists against Americans playing abroad. Wayne Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez, et al, miss strikes like those presented to Dempsey on Sat., and yet we don't tend to belabor those misses as much as we do those missed by Americans. If Dempsey nets 17 this year, will he be lambasted for not scoring 25?

    Dempsey is actually the brightest spot on Fulham's team right now, yet here we are analyzing his misses in a game where he was the only person who scored for Fulham (or even created chances for that matter)? Bottom line, Americans abroad have to deal with a European contingent that desperately want Americans to fail so as to reinforce their negative impressions of their football skills while Americans are overly harsh of yanks abroad b/c they're desperately trying to prove Americans are skilled at football. While we can't control the former, perhaps as Americans we can control the latter? Just a thought...
     
  3. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    DempC - Are you worried about Yanks reading these posts and feeling insecure? Which European contingent desperately wants Yanks to fail? And I think those that might be "desperate to prove Americans are skilled" are less likely to be negative.

    I can appreciate it if you are content with an uncritical level of fandom, but it would be silly to think the rest of us shouldn't analyze plays, skills, etc., and I think you are blowing some of the perspectives out of proportion.
     
  4. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    It looked to me that Dempsey hit it right at the keeper, although I'm relying on a pretty small highlight clip.
     
  5. kjksccr

    kjksccr Member

    Feb 25, 1999
    San Carlos, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think DempC has a point. Anyone see the Tottenham v. Arsenal game where the 14 million pound Bent managed to not even make solid contact with the ball on a 1 v. 1? Sure, CD would love those chances again but like he says 1 out of 3 isnt' bad.

    http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11681_2735480,00.html


    Not bad company, especially considering the superior support the other names have:

    http://www.premierleague.com/page/Statistics/0,,12306,00.html

    What Clint has managed to do is score goals for a team that gives him pretty low quality service and asks you to run quite a bit with no reward. Hopefully it will continue. I think his confidence, some would say cocky, attitude is valuable in a such a tough league. As long as he keeps scoring, Sanchez has to keep him on the field.
     
  6. FirstStar

    FirstStar Hustlin' for the USA

    Fulham Football Club
    Feb 1, 2005
    Time's Arrow
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree - Prem keepers make a lot of money for a good reason.
     
  7. golazo68

    golazo68 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 21, 2004
    Brazil
    Adding to the difficulty- it was one of those chances where one had to settle ball, and shuffle feet quickly back into shooting position VERY QUICKLY. From that angle, its awkward . A slower rolling ball from a flater angle (or from in front) is easier. (like on the goal)

    At least he didn't overthink it, and let the chance slip by or shoot wide of the frame (or we'd have even more criticism of that attempt! :)).

    At least once a game you see a chance like that missed in the Prem, sometimes more.
     
  8. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001

    Well, if we dedicated all this analysis to only his goals, it'd be a shorter thread now wouldn't it? The only "European" contingent that desperately wants Americans to fail is M and he's from FAR Western Europe.

    We're a bunch of footie geeks. We'll overanalyse anyting - including your post!

    I am, however, cautiously optomistic that Bradley and Sanchez will prove me wrong and Dempsey will make a break out target man!
     
  9. Sachsen

    Sachsen Member+

    Aug 8, 2003
    Broken Arrow, Okla.
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  10. DempC

    DempC Member

    Jul 31, 2007
    Nope. Piling on players in the press does have an impact in terms of attitudes and pressures put on American players. As it is, US players are already fighting against a fairly difficult infrastructure in Europe that is skeptical of them. The negative press serves to reinforce it and yes, the press does read the more popular soccer MB's (this one being one of them).

    It's my opinion derived from observing the commentary/analysis coming out of Europe in relation to American footballers.


    Actually, because American football fans are so deserperate to see them do well, they tend to overanalyze them. As such, they're finding mistakes where, had it been an Argentinian player where there isn't this need to prove anything, they wouldn't even think twice about it. I invite you to scrutinize any top striker in the EPL to this level and you will find the same misses from similar opportunities that Dempsey had in the Wigan game with surprising frequency and little to know coverage of it.

    I'm critical of Dempsey, as I would be any other player. That's my point...I think all of this analysis about his misses while being the 2nd leading goal scorer in the EPL comes from him being an american abroad. I only ask that people be consistent so as to not pile on to the problems yanks already face abroad. If Wayne Rooney were the 2nd leading scorer in the EPL right now, would he get this kind of press?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...in_article_id=482059&in_page_id=1779&ito=1490
     
  11. soccerfan

    soccerfan BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 13, 1999
    New Jersey
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  12. golazo68

    golazo68 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 21, 2004
    Brazil
    That just plain assinine. Kirkland clearly made a foot save on the first attempt, and it wasn't a great shot, but could have easily snuck in if Kirkland missed it or was deadfooted on the play.
     
  13. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    Guess you didn't read any coverage of Crissy R. in the early years? I doubt England is any more anti-American in their football coverage than generally xenophobic - or slightly xeno-suspicious. And it's not all that different anywhere else.

    Maybe the Fairness in Media folks can do a study, but I'd be surprised if Americans get a tougher shake than other countries' players. MadBrad is raved about with such frequency you wonder if Lasort quit BS to become his publicist.
     
  14. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    I think Dempsey’s goals per minutes played ratio speaks for itself. Sure, it would be great if he had two more goals at this point, as that might mean two more Fulham wins, but at same time without the contributions he has made the team would be in a worse position. Still, the press negativity is still a bit refreshing, as at least an American is in a position where he’s expected to be the team's most potent offensive weapon.
     
  15. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    Leicester City FC

    Is Clint as good or as proven as Wayne Rooney is? Sure, Wayne Rooney may miss shots like Clint did, but Clint isn't Wayne Rooney and he's still got a long way to go just to establish himself as a starter, much less a "top striker". Clint is still a work in progress and his ability to consistently perform at this level still is very much in doubt, which is why analysis of his play is interesting.

    You aren't critical of him if you think "2nd leading scorer" is worth a) mentioning in this discussion and b) wording in the way that you have.

    Clint went to England in part for the challenge and the pressure to perform. If you think this forum analyzing his play is going to have direct ramifications on Clint's ability to be a regular starter or otherwise establish himself, then maybe we should really be concerned that Clint isn't good enough.

    By the way, this isn't media spin: "Sanchez said of Dempsey: "Clint will feel he should have had more goals today, but three goals in three games isn't bad, and these are his first real starts for us since coming here."
     
  16. lurking

    lurking Member+

    Feb 9, 2002
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If would, coulda, and shoulda counted in soccer, I swear the final scores would look more like a basketball game's.
     
  17. voros

    voros Member

    Jun 7, 2002
    Parts Unknown
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Dempsey's mistake on the second attempt was not the shot, that was actually pretty good. His mistake was the pass. He scuffed it a bit and wound up a little short of the mark. What this did was keep both the last Wigan defender and Wigan's keeper in Dempsey's general vicinity. A better pass forces both the defender and the keeper to react to the other attacker leaving Dempsey alone on the back post for a tap-in.
     
  18. Gorky

    Gorky Member+

    Jul 28, 2006
    NYC
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh yeah, I knew Dempsey was a good choice for my fantasy team. Though if he had made some of those shots...
     
  19. Bruce S

    Bruce S Member+

    Sep 10, 1999
    Wayne Rooney is not Wayne Rooney. At least the real player is not nearly as good as the imaginary Wayne Rooney who never misses the target. The real one misses plenty.
     
  20. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    How was a shot that hits the keeper in the numbers pretty good? (I may sound like I'm not a Dempsey fan, but I actually am a huge fan. Just think he could have done better although the keeper was well positioned, as you say.) From the highlights, it looked to me like he settled the ball well, but just hit the ball without looking up.
     
  21. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    No one said he doesn't miss howlers occasionally. Martino has crap shots too - does that mean he's just like Wayne Rooney?
     
  22. green94

    green94 Member

    Jan 1, 2007
    Minneapolis
    Club:
    Hamburger SV
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You betcha.
     
  23. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

    Oct 14, 2004
    The most impressive part about the sequence where Dempsey forces Chris Kirkland into a "kick save and a beauty" is how he and Kamara run a 2 vs. 3 counter.

    That's a big departure from the "Backpass Eddie".

    Maybe Bob should watch these videos once in a while.

    PS. As Sanchez said, Dempsey has started all of 3 games. He has barely began to climb his learning curve.
     
  24. monop_poly

    monop_poly Member

    May 17, 2002
    Chicago
    Because, above all else, I cherish and treasure the positive reputation and adulation from other that I can garner from snide comments hurled from the anonymity of my laptop, thus ridding my psyche of its low self-esteem and enabling me to live another day with a grandiose vision of my otherwise loathsome persona.
     
  25. golazo68

    golazo68 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 21, 2004
    Brazil
    at least you are honest
     

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