Kansas City vs New York City (Sun. March 4th, 6:30PM CST) [R]

Discussion in 'Sporting Kansas City' started by vividox, Feb 26, 2018.

  1. Blong

    Blong Member+

    Oct 29, 2002
    Midwest, the real one.
    I thought NYC was very sharp in the 1st half.

    If we could mind read, how many times would we have heard "Oh, I thought YOU were gonna get it"

    Lot's of players on their heels. Croizet is on a whole different wavelength. We gotta gel bigtime.

    Felipe grew as the game went along.
     
  2. Blong

    Blong Member+

    Oct 29, 2002
    Midwest, the real one.
    No I mean, It's simple: send it into the box.
     
  3. lukeD

    lukeD Member

    Jul 7, 2011
    Olathe
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well that was a pile of dog shit.

    Positives - Gutierrez looks like the real deal at the No.10. Russell looks promising.

    Negatives - 1)Croizet looks like an SPR player. 2)Rubio is as bad as he was the last two years. 3) We're playing without a CF. Basically six midfielders running around without a target to play to. 4)Lobato is as bad at LB as he was everywhere else. Terrible defender. 5) Coaching - it was mentioned on the broadcast that SKC did not win a single game while trailing at halftime last season. Down 2-0 and you bring in Medranda as a LB sub. Genius

    This team was designed to play for 0-0 or 1-0 with the idea that the defense is the best in the league. Its not with Lobato at LB. At least the listless attack held up its end.
     
  4. dgb09

    dgb09 Member

    Jun 11, 2003
    Overland Park, KS
    That was hard to watch. While I realize that NYFC might be really good, it's tough to see them win basically every positional battle on the field. It seemed like we were down a man for much of this game. NY had someone open or breaking up our pass every time. It was hard to comprehend.

    Since I'm in a crap mood, I'll just roll off some things that bugged me:
    • Lobato - just don't get it
    • Croizet - did not look good as a winger. Seemed like he might be good in an attacking mid role
    • Espinoza looked bad. Just flat bad. Slow of thought. Slow of touch. Black hole on offense.
    • Perhaps an answer is that Roger sits for Croizet. Gotta at least try it
    • Russell - As much as I liked some of what he did, it would have been nice to see him make a run onto a pass at any point. Perhaps it's because those passes weren't coming (looking at you, Roger), but he didn't seem to be doing 'winger things' as much as we needed
    • Besler and Opara were overmatched - this could be b/c NY is very good on offense. But still hard to watch
    • Generally it seemed like no one knew what anyone else was going to do. Just watch that terrible, awful, horrible, no good set play to end the first half.
    • Vermes the coach got it wrong today. He made three subs and you could argue that each was pulling off a mistake in setting up the team.
    • Vermes the TD might not have had such a great off season. While I liked the pieces, if they don't all fit on the field together in the right way, it didn't really help all that much.
    • Oh, we need a good center forward. Salloi at least made NY work
    • Geiger is terrible
    I will now try to sleep this one off. 33 more to get it right.
     
  5. MtMike

    MtMike Member+

    Nov 18, 1999
    the 417
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    At least Vermes made 3 subs. That's a positive...right?
     
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  6. Formulaic

    Formulaic Member

    Jul 6, 2011
    Kansas City
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wellp. That wasn't great. NY bossed possession and pressed the hell out of us in the first half and got their goal. Then let us pass it around in the second half and killed us on the counter too. It felt like they pretty much did whatever the hell they wanted to for the first 70 minutes of the game.

    The next game needs to start with the lineup we ended with tonight. We were noticeably more lively after each of our 3 subs. Maybe see if Croizet looks any better in the midfield because Roger was...not good. And while Yohan also looked pretty damn poor, at least he has the excuse of being out of position at a new team.

    I want Rubio to succeed...but holy hell was he invisible out there. I can't really think of anything he did to impact the game at all.

    I hope Zusi was poor because he missed a lot of preseason and not because age is catching him.

    I think Gutierrez is going to be fun to watch. That is my positive takeaway.
     
  7. xamers

    xamers Member

    Aug 10, 2014
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    1. I/We all knew Rubio was garbage. He still is garbage. He has no place on a MLS roster. None.
    2. Salloi is below average as a target man and he looked like gold compared to Rubio. Salloi can at least function in that role. Hell, I'd say he didn't look all that bad tonight. He too frail to play CF an entire season.
    3. Lobato is just horrendous at LB. But, unlike Rubio, he might actually improve with more time there. Though I doubt it because he looked, again, horrendous.
    4. Gootz is the real deal, it appears. Just wonderful from him.
    5. Agree on Roger. Slow thought processing. Kills the flow. He's stale.
    6. I was OK with Russell and Croizet tonight. Can't do much without proper supply and can't do much if there's no target in the box. ********ing Rubio is everywhere EXCEPT in a position of receive a cross.

    All and all, another egg put up by Vermes. How many games will he get a pass this year? One. One is the answer for me. I'm done with the impotence. Maybe not as angry as it sounds. Just sick of it. Salloi is clearly better than Rubio. Anyone is clearly better than Lobato right now. How is this the best we can do? Did we lose too many seniors to graduation last year? Lol. Go get a ********ing #9. Act like an actual club and find someone already.
     
  8. Inca Roads

    Inca Roads Member+

    Nov 22, 2012
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Give Gerso that starting wing spot. Guy looked hungry and intense as I've ever seen him. Croizet just looked out of place and confused. I mean, is it the worst idea to let the established forward get starts while the new guy sorts out his place in the team?

    I don't even know what Rubio was up to. The offense looked much better once Salloi took his spot. I like Diego, but where was his head? He was hardly involved. Daniel, like Gerso, entered the game like he wanted to win the ********ing thing. This really could be his year. I mean, for his sake I hope it, but for our sake I hope it more.

    Whole defense was shaky. Midfield was a bit whiffy, but I'm honestly coming around to the Ilie Espinoza Gutierrez combo. I see a lot of promise there. Felipe is a tiger.
     
  9. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So based on the stats, Rubio took zero shots in 62 minutes.... That's less than ideal.
     
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  10. kcscsupporter

    kcscsupporter Member+

    Apr 17, 2002
    D17
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    that was white hot trash. lobato and rubio need to just be cut, period. end of. get rid.

    that's the first i've seen of croizet (didn't watch anything from preseason), and if that's the way he's gonna play the rest of this season, then he can go right now as well. i don't even care that he's new. at no time did i feel like he wasn't out of sorts. maybe a couple misreads here and there you can expect, sure, but he wasn't in the same book as the rest of the team, let alone on the same page. the only thing i liked out of him was his effort early on where he volleyed wide of the goal. it seemed ambitious, but i was alright with it.

    no real complaints about russell at this point. i would if we were in the middle of the season, but not yet. i liked his willingness to go at defenders (even if he got himself into trouble holding it too long .. but then, i'd argue that rubio didn't give him any option, which forced him to take it further himself. did i mention how bad rubio was?).

    my number one complaint, though, is a big ol' 'F you' to ownership, or the front office, for deciding that we'd wear our alternate jerseys in our home opener. it's clear they were only looking out for their pocketbooks in trying to promote that shit jersey. you don't start your season by ceding your home colors to THE OPPONENT in your house. that sends a terrible message.
     
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  11. kcscsupporter

    kcscsupporter Member+

    Apr 17, 2002
    D17
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    oh yeah, it's ridiculous that they won't show replays that are being reviewed on the video boards. give me a break. show the goddamn replay so we can see how the ref is gonna f*** that up too.
     
  12. SKCKU

    SKCKU New Member

    Apr 1, 2014
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    So how about that number 9 we were promised by our ownership? lol I usually attempt to talk this team up, but you can't defend the indefensible. Same shit, different year. Didn't we only lose 1 home game all of last year? Looks like we may wanna get prepared for more Ls at home.
     
  13. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I get it now, this was the sound of my idyllic vision of 2018 exploding. the shards of my rose colored glasses are embedded in my eyes today.
    I watched every game in MLS this weekend (and this morning). We looked so much less prepared than anyone else. I don't get that.
    The Crew had a tougher off season rebuild than we did, and yet looked really good.
    LAFC even looked like they knew what they were about. Credit to Bradley, but how is that possible? In fact, everyone else looked to be shaking off a bit of rust, but to be in decent shape.
    We were far and away the worst side in MLS this weekend. We looked like a side assembled for a Sunday pickup game. We were disconnected. Our pressure was laughable. Our attack was incoherent. Our defending was shambolic. We're supposed to be a system club, but was that system visible? At all?
    Maybe this is a sign of what folks are saying, the days of MLS parity are over and NYCFC have simply moved on to another level. Maybe we are the first club to look really bad against them.
    But I don't think so. The league may have upgraded, but we went retro, back to 2009?
    I have never thought this before, but at least for this week, Vermes failed the club. He did not prepare this team to compete. I still trust him to fix this, but we failed at the things he's supposed to get right, and not just the things we typically get wrong.
    As for the players, when nobody looks good, it's down to the manager, IMo.
     
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  14. kckicker23

    kckicker23 Member

    Jun 10, 2003
    KC
    The good:
    • We definitely could have scored a goal, so I'm not as discouraged by a zero goal performance as I've been in recent years.
    • Gutierrez was impressive. He might be the real deal.
    • I liked Gerso after he came on, he should be starting along with Russell on the wings. Those two, plus Gutierrez in the middle is the makings of a decent attack.
    The bad:
    • If we were (maybe) deserving of a goal, then only giving up 2 goals flattered us immensely. New York City easily could have had 2 or 3 goals in the first 25 minutes. As it was, we were lucky to be down just 1 at halftime.
    • Croizet was as underwhelming as I thought he'd be. Although, he did almost score after a great ball over the top from Gutierrez. That play was 90% briliance from Gutierrez, though.
    • Our aging defense. If we're going to insist on our style of play, which all but invites teams to counter like crazy, then get ready for a bunch of goals given up like their second. That was clinical. Zusi/Besler/Opara just isn't going to cut it, not to mention what was going on at left back.
    • The PV tactics suck, as usual. The way we play depends on a stud striker. We know it, the team knows it, more importantly the rest of the league knows it, but did we go out and buy the #9 we were promised? HAHAHA NOPE.
    The ugly:
    • Black jerseys for the home opener? Against the one team that looks the most similar to ours? Give me a break.
    • The field...uh...what the hell, guys? Do we just elect to not grow grass? When the stadium opened I constantly heard about state-of-the-art underground heating and cooling, and irrigation systems, and blah blah blah. The field has been a piece of crap since the day the stadium opened, but last night was among the most embarrassing things I've ever seen. Leftover markings and beat up areas from a football game 3 months ago?
    • Espinoza. He was horrible.
     
  15. KC96

    KC96 Member

    Mar 2, 2013
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    The boys in blue put on a great show at CMP - high press everywhere that reminded me of 2011, but adding in coordinated crisp passing, great ball movement, and goals from people who weren't the star center forward.

    Really showed that other "City" team who "owns" that light blue color.

    Speaking of which, why the *&^# was Sporting KC wearing ALL BLACK on our home field last night? It's like we weren't content to just cede the play on the field to NYCFC, but we gave up on our colors too from the start.

    Maybe the FO was trying to drum up interest in the new kit - but against the only team in MLS which has similar colors to our home one? Stupid and avoidable.

    It certainly was a "Blue Hell" last night.
     
  16. vividox

    vividox Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 10, 2005
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    I agree with most of the comments made so far, but apparently I was watching a different Roger Espinoza - I thought he was clearly one of the few guys (Zusi and Felipe being the other two) who even showed up to play last night.

    Croizet was terrible. Looked completely disinterested, wouldn't go after anything, so many opportunities he decided not to challenge. Other than the acrobatic shot attempt, he brought exactly nothing to the table. For me, next week's lineup has to be:

    Russel - Salloi/Shelton - Gerso
    Espinoza - Ilie - Felipe
    Sinovic - Opara - Besler- Zusi
    Melia

    It's only one game into the season, and hell, Toronto and Atlanta really ate some shit this weekend, too, but we looked AWFUL. I don't have high hopes for the season after watching that performance.
     
  17. kckicker23

    kckicker23 Member

    Jun 10, 2003
    KC
    Not to mention that there was one PV on the sidelines managing a team well, making the right substitutions, putting his team in a position to succeed, etc. And one that was not.
     
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  18. Sparks27

    Sparks27 Member

    Jan 22, 2012
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    #43 Sparks27, Mar 5, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2018
    This shows how spoiled rotten we have become as a fan base. One bad performance at home with 4 new starters. Some of these responses are laughable. A lot of cookie cutters response like "no new #9 cost us" or "PV set us up for failure". How about we start having some real conversations around here. Watch and analyze the damn game instead of throwing out the same 5 overreactions. Now if we want to talk in depth about what went wrong lets do so.

    1. Our line in the first 20 minutes was too deep. Although we were still pressing we allowed NYCFC to have the ball way to much near the halfway line. My gut says PV gave them this instruction to sit deeper, however it also could be a result of not being able to keep the ball for the majority of the first half.

    2. The midfield looked overwhelmed. Felipe G grew as the game went on but Roger and Ille did not. A part of this is because Rubio was doing a terrible defensive job with cutting off angles. Croizet and Russel did not help either. It was so easy for New York to get to the midfield. When Salloi came on theres a reason we looked better. This is also why Shelton earned a spot in preseason. He makes the team better. We missed him tonight.

    3. We don't have a Sapong or Peterson or Kamara.....still. For all the shit I heard around here about Peterson not many realized he was an essential part to our offense. His movement in the box was the best this team has seen.....since 2013. For a team that likes to send in crosses, 24 last night, we have nobody that makes a damn movement in the box. This isn't a new problem. Causal fans and dumb fans who think they are experts are obsessed with Flash and technical ability but don't watch off the ball movement. Our offense will struggle until someone decides to step up. Btw Gerso did an incredible job of movement off the ball last night.

    4. The defense was also effected by point 2. Someone above mentioned that our defense is aging and that's a very good point. We cannot be an open team or we will get killed like last night. Although I understand why PV likes Lobato at left back I wouldn't be opposed to either Medranda or Seth starting next game. Lobato was not great but he wasn't the main problem either.


    BTW Croizet has struggled but lets give the man some time. He's been working hard defensively. He's doing a bad job but the effort is there. It really pissed me off when people were cheering that he came off. (and don't even say they were cheering for Gerso). He looks like a man that's trying to figure it out. Let's give him more than 1 MLS game huh? Jesus Christ
     
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  19. vividox

    vividox Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 10, 2005
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    I'll always appreciate and endorse an optimistic viewpoint in the world of sportsball, but that was one of the worst regular season games we've played in this stadium. Especially considering how well we typically start our seasons. It's very rare for us to get so many things wrong on so many levels coming out of pre-season. And you are absolutely right, it's game 1 of 34, there are a lot of new pieces, and it's going to take awhile to gel, but we're also in a league that is moving forward at a pace that is fairly incomparable in terms of other leagues or other sports. It's really hard to not focus on the failure to sign on a target forward and the very real possibility that we may be being passed by a significant chunk of the league this year.
     
  20. KC96

    KC96 Member

    Mar 2, 2013
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Here's some analysis.

    https://matchcenter.mlssoccer.com/m...porting-kansas-city-vs-new-york-city-fc/recap

    Go to the 1:52 mark on the build up to NYCFC's 2nd goal. Note where #2 Ben Sweat, NYCFC's Left Back is, when the ball is served. Then compare to where Zusi (our RB), is. Zusi is on the NYCFC half, and easily is 20 yds closer to our goal vs. Sweat.

    The ball is served to Sweat, and by the time Sweat moves to 30yds from our goal/halfway in our half, Zusi is already 2 steps behind him. Zusi is slow to understand and react to the danger, and then slower in foot speed to react.

    THIS is why we played a deep line at the start - or else we would have been scored on seven minutes into the first half, instead of the second half.

    When you are relatively slow (in thought, reaction, and/or footspeed), you shrink the space you have to defend/react to. Hence a deep line - which of course opens up other problems elsewhere that NYCFC exploited.
     
  21. kckicker23

    kckicker23 Member

    Jun 10, 2003
    KC
    The problems on display last night were the exact same problems that we have had in 2014, 2015, 2016, and 2017. Each of those seasons resulted in a road playoff game, that we lost. Only the rosiest-colored of glasses could be used to ignore this reality, and act as if criticism is unearned. This is not one game. This is the continuation of a mediocre system over 4 consecutive seasons, with no evidence that things are going to change.
     
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  22. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    In chiding us to give SKC some time, you noted that our defense looked old (that is not changing), we lack personnel up top (that is not changing) and the midfield was overwhelmed (that might change, but it is a bad sign).
    Having yet to gel means not making the runs someone else might have last year, not anticipating the runs someone is making, poor touch, etc.
    Our problems were beyond that. It wasn't a personnel issue, it was system issue that might come back to personnel.
    NYCFC rebuilt every bit as much as we did. Every team in MLS (except RSL, NE and Minnesota maybe) rebuilt as much as we did. Take a look around the league this weekend. We looked a whole 'nother level of bad.
    Maybe Vermes simply set the line too deep, and that led to a lot of problems for us. Everyone makes mistakes.
    But we have made the playoffs these last several years because we start fast. Our system is consistent and fairly easily understoon. We bring in players we believe can play the system.
    As your optimistic note indicates, the system did not work.
    I agree its too early on Croizet, or Lobato at LB or any player. This was 18 players not on the same page, and that is down to a manager failing to get his side ready.
    Upside, watch LAFC and you can see that Benny was not the answer to what ailed us this weekend. He looked old and slow. True, he's not playing his best position, but he lacked the spark he's had when he's been really good.
     
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  23. lukeD

    lukeD Member

    Jul 7, 2011
    Olathe
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Totally agree with your point about Gerso. He gives the attack another dimension (speed) when he is on. He should start over Croizet, who looked more like the next Saad/Hallisey/Convey than he did a DP.

    Its crazy to me that Salloi is now the first choice CF, but he is. With his build, he's going to have to play as a false 9 if he lines up at CF again. That means no one to get on crosses from Russell.

    I agree with your evaluation on the defense. That was the most troubling part to me about this game. This roster is not going to light it up on the attacking side of the ball, but I thought they would be able to stay in most games and play for the 0-0 or 1-0 win. That is NOT the case if the defense plays like it did last night. Lobato was lost on the left side and Zusi thinks hes an attacking mid. There was no cover for the two CBs, who struggled tracking a world class CF.
     
  24. KC96

    KC96 Member

    Mar 2, 2013
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City

    See my analysis above on why a deep line is completely consistent with playing for a 1-0 win (don't fall behind early).

    And while not ideal - nor fun to watch as a fan - it was a sensible early course of action given the current personnel available, and the team's philosophy (right or wrong) on winning.
     
  25. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Exactly. We know from looking at their rosters and track record that both of those teams are going to score goals. The real question is consistency and production.

    With SKC, the last ten years of the Vermes era doesn't give any confidence that we're suddenly going to start scoring steadily. Unless Melia repeats his career year and our defense returns to historically strong levels, it's really hard to see how this team is successful.

    Sure, defense wins championships. But you still have to score goals, and offense is the best defense.

    It gets harder and harder to keep looking forward to a year of a bunch of pretty passes in the midfield with no real objective in sight. It's not 2012 anymore. The league has six full seasons of learning how to deal with what Vermes is doing.

    I think our talent is fine. We can't afford to compete with the big spenders, but we're definitely in range to be a consistent playoff team capable of winning it all. Our lack of tactical flexibility is a huge problem. Nothing I've seen in the last decade gives me any hope that we're going to adjust.
     
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