Kansas City at Los Angeles (Sun Sept 15, 9:00pm CDT)[R]

Discussion in 'Sporting Kansas City' started by Buzz Killington, Sep 11, 2019.

  1. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Game was flexed to FS1 Sunday night.
     
  2. Inca Roads

    Inca Roads Member+

    Nov 22, 2012
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Must win. Not because it will save our playoff chances but because it's funny to see Zlatan miss the post-season.
     
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  3. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Gee, i wonder why?
    To be fair, he has been worth the circus
     
  4. Inca Roads

    Inca Roads Member+

    Nov 22, 2012
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Side note, with how badly LAG has been getting screwed by refereeing lately, we actually have a solid shot at a result here.
     
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  5. Spassapparat

    Spassapparat Member

    SKC/Werder Bremen
    May 14, 2017
    Ha. Someone else must've been watching the Colorado game yday. Before VAR I was always able to tell myself - ok, the ref doesn't have the advantage of instant replay and will make mistakes. But now with VAR, I really wonder sometimes whether there are rules in soccer that I just don't know, even after 25 years of watching the game? Apparently, being karatekicked on the nose is not a foul but stumbling over a turf monster is?
     
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  6. Kooth

    Kooth Member

    Sporting KC
    Mar 11, 2012
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Happy to see some results fall this week for us, now all we have to do is beat LA.
     
  7. lukeD

    lukeD Member+

    Jul 7, 2011
    Olathe
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Peter's halftime speech as on point as his CCL tactics.

    This house of cards this roster was built upon was evident in April. Gutierrez the only player I want to see back.
     
  8. Uppa 90

    Uppa 90 Member

    Jan 16, 2004
    K.C. MO
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sometimes I slow down on a highway to look at the carnage of a wreck... I... just... can't... turn... it... off...

    Fascinating to see how hard we have fallen...
     
  9. Kooth

    Kooth Member

    Sporting KC
    Mar 11, 2012
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Our lack of finishing and aggressiveness strikes again.
     
  10. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Game film on Graham Smith is a horrible thing. He's a new Kevin Ellis, can spot start for you and not look totally out of place, but the longer he's starting the more he's going to get exploited. He had a horrid night tonight but man the midfield and wingbacks quit on him, Besler, and Melia late on.
     
  11. KCFutbol

    KCFutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 14, 2001
    Overland Park, KS
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I have been supporting this team since day 1. This is the first time I've ever turned off the game prior to its conclusion. As the score reached 4-1, I shut it off and went to bed. If the gave had been a 7:30 start I would have suffered until the end. But alas....

    I'm at a loss for words as to how this season has played out. We looked so good against Toluca way back when. But the wheels quickly fell off and SKC have been a tire fire for a good part of this season.

    How does this get fixed? That is the question on the tongues of Sporting fans this morning. Do we blow the whole damn thing up? Within the constraints of existing player contracts, of course. Do we keep the current coaching staff? Do more than 15,000 show up next Saturday against the Rapids?

    Well, I'm still going to Minnesota for the game on the 25th but it's now more to visit my daughter than to watch SKC in a new venue.

    I grew up a Cubs fan so I am well versed in disappointment. I suffered for almost 60 years before they finally won a World Series. SKC has been far more satisfying and will sort this out, I hope.

    Well, season tickets have been renewed, eye surgery performed so now I'll be able to see what's going when the ball is on the south end of the field. Nowhere to go but up, right?
     
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  12. oldntired

    oldntired Member

    May 3, 2011
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Can Peter face the fact that Zusi is to old and slow? Can ownership face the fact that they have to spend money? Is Fontas the worst signing in the history of the team? What exactly was going on behind the scenes? Croziet and Neimeth? No I can't spell. Eliea coming off the bench? Salloi's total regression? Seems like Vermes maybe lost the team or they had some really bad apples. I would love to know the real story of this season. I think basically some players got old, some players got bad attitudes, and they should have kept Ike.
     
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  13. Inca Roads

    Inca Roads Member+

    Nov 22, 2012
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Long story short, basically. In my opinion.

    The key problem in this team, and it's tied a bit to age, is a lack of actual athleticism out there. Pete's been pushing for a 2011 Barca style to this team. But the thing about that style is... Barcelona had to drop it because everyone figured out you can destroy it with speed and muscle. Losing Ike was losing our only backline athlete. That's a big loss, bigger than just his quality.

    Vermes has acknowledged this issue. He said a few months ago that we need to be focusing on getting younger and more athletic this offseason.

    I'm happy to call this LA game an outlier. What you're looking at was a game against a team that is offense-only, eager to counterattack, against the least athletic and slowest back four Sporting has featured since the rebrand. Which could be okay if our midfield had the chops to pressure people hard enough. But really basically Gerso aside, this team is slow and soft. There's no easy fix for that.

    Fontas isn't the worst signing ever, he just looks extra bad because he's overpaid and that led to Ike leaving. He doesn't impress, no, but we've had plenty of doesn't-impress guys over the years. That said, it looks like he's being shuttled out, along with Croizet and Nemeth. Sad they all flopped here, but at as long as we aren't stuck with their salaries on a team where Vermes won't play them, I'm okay.

    Side note, Fontas, Croizet, and Nemeth all leaving the team frees up, what, over $3MM in salary? Add in another $1MM if Feilhaber, Sinovic, and Wallace are all gone as well. I personally hope we keep Benny for one more year on a reduced contract, but that's just me being a big Benny fanboy.

    So that's where we start. We need to fill in the back line with a very solid CB (assuming Barath is just not Pete's guy), as well as finding a fullback for either side (I'm pretty okay with Martins so far, though I didn't see how much of last night was on him, and I'm hopeful for Lindsey). I don't mind Zusi and Sinovic staying and spot-starting, but neither has the wheels to be a main man out there.

    Felipe and Johnny are key to keep, so that leaves us with only one DP slot. Unfortunately, there are two critical positions that we need to fill, and I don't know which deserves the bigger chunk of salary more. We need to fill Roger's role with a younger, more athletic, solid and impressive high-presence center midfielder. Espinoza has been critical to this team year after year, but like many he's aging and the wheels are falling off. If Vermes stays with his three man midfield, we need some serious muscle in there to back up Ilie and Gutierrez, who keep getting run over.

    The other spot is of course striker. We need to finally get a guy with notable strength, speed, and positioning. Even just an average finisher would get a lot of goals in there with the kinds of opportunities this team tends to create. But more importantly, he would need to be the centerpoint of a three man attack, involving Russell and Gerso and (please dear god, anything but a repeat of this season) 2020 Golden Boot winner Daniel Salloi.

    We have a good depth of youth on this team. I think they have enough quality to keep the machine running if we have a solid core of a full XI and some change.

    If we do not find a playoff caliber striker, center mid, right back, and center back, next year won't be any better. Those are my positions of concern.

    ...Of course, all this assuming the salary structure and season as a whole doesn't get wildly derailed by CBA negotiations.
     
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  14. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    This is pretty much it. the other side of thuings, as Barca remained pretty succesful until, well, today, is that Vermes was trying to pull off a Barca with bargain basement talent. Almost every player on Barca was in the discussion for best in the world at their position when the team was at it's peak.
    It's kind of like Pep's magic at ManCity, or Klopp at Liverpool. Managers with the ability to bring in all the best players tend to have really good teams. Those who are smart as whips have even better sides.
    This season was based entirely around a plan A, and it got trampled in a run of injuries and aging, tired players.
    I don't blame Vermes because back in February I could feel that this SKC side was one of the best we'd seen. People were calling it the best posession side in MLS history.
    But the failure this season does indicate the end of a wild, wonderful era.
    We rebuild around Busio. Besler still has a couple years in him, but we need two years to build a side from the ground up. He may prefer to grab a title or two with someone else.
    I will always fondly remember this group, though. It was a great ride. Crappy ending, but that is the nature of sport, isn't it.
    The biggest quesion: Does Vermes have it in him to do it all over again? I do think it's his call, but I'm not sure how he's going to answer.
     
  15. Inca Roads

    Inca Roads Member+

    Nov 22, 2012
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    I think Vermes's glacial pace of change might not be as relevant this offseason. I expect his season-overview moves to follow the same patterns as his substitutions. When the team is winning, not much change. Hanging onto a good result? No change at all. Behind and failing badly? Changes early and things shaken up. He's reactive that way, and I think this offseason will mirror what he does when he does not have any good results to hang onto. Got destroyed in CCL, bombed out of the USOC, and now will probably miss the MSL Cup playoffs for the first time in ages. With easily the most impressive and expensive roster in SKC history, he does not have any wins in his column. So I think we see the ax and some notable signings.

    I mean, we had better.

    Building around Busio is neat and all but the kid is not there. He's been a bit whiffy as a squad player. We cannot build around him until he shows us that he is an above-average MLS starter quality, which would mean quite a lot of improvement this offseason. I really like the kid's potential but his current ability gets significantly overstated sometimes. Hard disagree with you on that one.

    I think Besler stays. Reduced role and salary, maybe? Hands off the armband? It's all good. It's what happens to players, especially ones in a league growing and improving as fast as MLS is. But I think he'd rather play a squad role for this team than a starter role somewhere else. And I think we as fans have every right to expect the FO to honor that wish and keep him on till retirement. Dude's a legend. Been instrumental of the majority of silverware this club has ever earned in its history (second to Vermes in that though, haha). Let's not Ike him away for no reason.
     
  16. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I wasn't saying that we should jettison Besler, just that he's too old to rebuild around. He's still a very high end player, and would be a strong mentor to a next generation. But the priority really has to be getting in a next generation.
    This applies to all of that era: I really like all of them. I think they all might have a good couple years left. But there is a choice between putting together a team with a view on next season and a team with a view on the next decade that has to be made, and I think we will chose the long term.
     
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  17. Inca Roads

    Inca Roads Member+

    Nov 22, 2012
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Yes, okay, I agree with that. Definitely don't build around Besler. I think of all the 30+ guys on the team, though, that he'll be able to stick around and help the longest.
     
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  18. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    And I picked Busio just because he's young with promise, and I have no idea WTF happened with Salloi this year.
     
  19. kcscsupporter

    kcscsupporter Member+

    Apr 17, 2002
    D17
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    a fitting way to end this season. just a disgraceful performance.
     
  20. Spassapparat

    Spassapparat Member

    SKC/Werder Bremen
    May 14, 2017
    Perfectly said. I'm not sure SKC has the right tactical setup for him either. Both the offensive midfield positions take a lot of athleticism, and I'm unsure that Busio will ever have that. Have mentioned multiple times already that I find it odd that Vermes subs Busio in for Espinoza, and I found it odd yday too.I think his appropriate position would be as the deeper striker in a 442 or the offensive player in a diamond shaped 442 midfield.

    Not too worried about Salloi though - I think he will return to form eventually. I'm also probably a tad more optimistic than most about Nemeth (though I'm not sure whether Vermes is even planning with him as starting striker). Hurtado's touch certainly won't do for a first 11 striker.

    My biggest worry remains Gutierrez leaving, followed by a lack of postseason roster movement defensively. Espinoza does not seem to have the wheels anymore, Zusi has never had them and Smith is decent but probably needs another year or two before he can be a true starter.
     
  21. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    If we sell Felipe, it will be at a profit, and opening up that much salary with the fee on top of it should mean we can find a replacement, at least by next August. Same with Russell. We've increased his value. It would suck to lose him, he's been great, but players who are highly sought after are not our real problem. I don't see Fontas leaving at a profit, and his contract runs until 2022. OTOH, it's hard to imagine him fitting back into a starting 11 in 2020 as a postive.
    On Salloi: His strengths, an ability to think ahead of the game and see passes others don't and his lightning quick shot were, I always thought, slump proof. It's not like his game is based around being the fastest player on the field, and he picked up a small injury and lost that edge. I don't understand what happened, but it was clear to Vermes in January, apparently, as Salloi never looked to be part of our core this season. Maybe it's a massive collapse of confidence?
     

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