I like how you put the sarcastic/ in here yet you are making terrible points and arguments "Anyone who has actual experience for a while with Korean football bar National team and watches both leagues will tell you the Challange has made improvements leaps and bounds. In the first place, half of the Challange teams literally broke off from the K League itself" First off, Challenge matches are hardly ever on television or even Youtube for that matter. So to say you watch both leagues extensively is an exaggeration unless you can show proof that you are attending these Challenge matches every week. Second off, just because half of the Challenge teams broke off from the K-League (which is an obvious statement, thanks for the history lesson though!) doesn't mean the top talent and bottom talent weren't divided. Better players do not want to play for a 2nd division team and the teams that did broke off were teams of lesser quality. It was a 16-team league but even the talent gap from top 4 from bottom 4 were significant. "Also, look at 정재용. From Anyang, he's starting in Ulsan. Suwon FC put up a good fight in actual match content, and one can see that as they took a significant chunk of Bluewings support. In fact, Suwon FC did really well in the beginning. " WTH are you talking about? "From Anyang, he's starting in Ulsan." Can you write properly? And of course there will be players who make the jump from 2nd division to 1st division. Happens in every league. This doesn't invalidate my conclusion that 2nd division is far off from 1st division. Players improve. Obscure players get scouted more and more and teams realize that player have improved or better than originally thought. You're making a dumb comment. And I'm sure Suwon FC did take few fans from Samsung but Suwon FC attendance is still bad. And Samsung have not performed as well in recent years so that can explain why their attendance has been down. "Gangwon might be in 10th, but they aren't that too far off from top of the table in points, and I assume they would be there if their top players such as Jung Jogook are not injured. Also, no one expected Daejeon to be that bad that year. Actually, the biggest reason is that they basically overhauled their whole squad and problems in the front office, so your argument is invalid" We are not disagreeing about Gangwon. I wrote that Gangwon spent tons of money this off-season to bring in players like Jung Jo Gook and Lee Keun Ho. What is your point? I don't see a disagreement here. But stats do not lie and they are in 10th place right now. Still a long season ahead of us however. You can say "no on expected Daejeon to be that bad that year" but they did perform that bad. Expectations are one thing, but final results are another. They did perform that bad. This is a horrible counter-argument on your end. Yes, they made a lot of changes but generally, you would think that teams that do get promoted (or even relegated) make moves to prepare for that level. "In the long run it might be more difficult due to various other factors, but on paper, there isn't much difference. Also, last year, Suwon Bluewings and Pohang were both threatened by relegation. Are those teams akin to Indian League teams? I don't think it's that it's because the leagues have a big difference. I think it's more because the league is very competitive in skill differences, so slight difference can ruin your day." What? What are you talking about? It seems like English isn't your first language. Stick with the Hangeul forums, kid. "Plus, a lot of teams get relegated right back in many other leagues too." Yes, this is true. Those many other leagues have significant gap between the 1st division and 2nd division. K-League is no different. We're not disagreeing here. Again, this counter-argument of yours isn't supporting your conclusion at all. "The true difference in K League Classic and Challange? http://www.footballist.co.kr/news/articleView.html?idxno=14718 According to 최윤겸, it's the marquees. This has a lot of sense because Suwon had a lot of trouble with marquees. For striker, they failed to find a good replacement until the Summer. For the midfielder, Gavilan was an absolute disaster. If it weren't for those, Suwon would have given a better fight. In fact, the Suwon FC before promotion was stronger than after. http://www.footballist.co.kr/news/articleView.html?idxno=15840 According to 이우형, the defense doens't have a big difference rather than attack." Marquees? Damn, English really isn't your first language. You're talking about Suwon not signing good foreign players but guess what? Top division teams generally have more money, and with more money, they can sign better players and they can have a better and bigger scouting department. So you're only making my point better. So Suwon signed sh*tty foreign players according to you, and couldn't find a good replacement. So they were limited in budget in both player salaries and scouting department. Again, those types of things separate 1st division and 2nd division in many leagues. "My conclusion? There is a gap, but it isn't stupidly big as you think. Defensively it's similar, but the couple of players midfield and offense make the slight, but impactful difference." In order to make a conclusion, you need premises. You didn't state any premises relevant to your conclusion. "The difference between Classic and Challange is the squad depth and size. The best XI have no problem fitting into the Classic, but the clubs are poorer, so they can afford less of those players (but as you said, they aren't below Indian league level refer Do Donghyun). Also, you have to mention a lot of those poor teams are ripped apart because the teams in the Classic pick apart their XI in the transfermarket. " what? I didn't fully comprehend what you were writing because your English is bad. But it seems like you are supporting my argument that the gap is between Classic and Challenge are significant, by mentioning squad depth, size, and how some clubs are poorer. You are strengthening my conclusion, not weakening it. "Also, let's look at Daegu's last fixtures Yes, they have much more losses than wins, but do you know what? They aren't too bad at all. Most games they scored a goal, and only lost by one goal." Anyone can nitpick any statistic and neglect any statistic. This kind of argumentative style is amateurism. And even then, it doesn't make your argument strong. Whether they lose by 1 goal or not, most of those are losses or draws (2 against bottom-feeder Classic teams in Sangju and Incheon). "No one denies there is a difference between the K Leagues, but your perception is extremely flawed and illogical. In the first place, how can a lower division have such a gap? The K League Challange is not below Indian League or Irish League level as you suggest, and is certainly not a Sunday League. Anyway, going back to the original topic Suwon FC is rated a 64 in game, and few of their players are even in the 50's, so no, certainly far from what you said." I don't even know what to say here because your arguments are all over the place instead of having a gradual step-by-step argument. I just know that you have no idea what you are talking about. My argument from before might be "simple", but sometimes simple arguments make sense. Why complex things? Sangju and Gwangju in about 4 years of promotion-relegation were the only teams to survive relegation in the Classic so far. And Sangju is a military team that always have a huge turnover every September that brings in good talent, at least better than most Challenge-level squads. If the gap wasn't as huge as you say it isn't, there would have been more Challenge teams suviving relegation. I do expect Gangwon to survive this year because that team have too much talent not to.
Lol, this made me laugh so much. The difference between Classic and Challenge are just the mercs? What a load of bullcr*p. It's everything. When you have K-League Classic rejects tearing up the league, I find it hard to take your point seriously. Indian? Irish? Sunday? WTF are you on about? Talk about building a big fat straw man. It's a sh*t league that was introduced to comply with new AFC regulations, with incompetent management and plagued by financial instability.