I think good players are good players no matter what league. Players succeed or fail based more on the specific team/manager than the league. Sometimes the fit isn't right. Rodgers didn't rate him because of the whole Rodgers vs the committee bullshit and gave up on him. Rodgers had plenty of chances to work him into the team when we were well ahead with 15 or 20 to go. He didn't, so when we needed him at the end of the season, he wasn't ready. Suso and Alberto were victims of being too young more than anything. I also don't think they are necessarily EPL top 4 talents, but on the right team I think they'd be fine mid-table players in the EPL.
At last... Interesting to read the reactions to this post again now that Sane wasnt even called up for the WC. No offense mates, I just wanted to make this rather obvious point before we move on to the WC
With Germany's talent it probably doesn't matter much, they should be in the final... and every coach has their favorites based on the style/formation they use. That said, there's zero chance you can sit there straight-faced and tell me that Draxler is a more effective or talented footballer than Sane right now. I guess he's more positionally versatile, while being nowhere near as good overall. And Reus over Sane? We aren't talking about Reus in 2014, right, but rather Reus right now? I mean, is that even close?
Except the Germans who actually watch their team play. The German team has a hierarchy and you don't break that hierarchy by going scoreless in every appearance and skipping tournaments like he did last summer.
Sane hasn't been better than those players when playing for Germany and that is what Low based his decision on.
As long as we're agreed it's really not about him as a player OVERALL, that's fine. I don't watch him train, I don't watch Germany all the time, but he's the best LW they have overall by skillset. If he doesn't perform for them, that's an issue and something he'll have to address. But when the chips are down and you need a contribution from the wing in the final, do you think Sane is going to do something or do you count on Marco Reus? When you need to change a deadlocked match with a sub, Sane or Draxler? I dunno... I watched a lot of Reus and a fair amount of Draxler this past season, and would NOT be putting my money on them.
Stats suggest that Sane isn't significantly better in any way than Draxler, Reus or Brandt and Reus is easily the best of any of them.
You should try limiting it to the last season -- Draxler at PSG in a joke league and Reus as the only good spot in BVB's attack post-PEA are left in the dust by Sane's creation numbers. I didn't bring up Brandt for specific reasons, but even then last season Sane is better. Goal or assist every 99 minutes for one of the best teams in the world in a competitive league.
Fair enough. Just saying, don't bring up club play. We can't pretend it's based on the player that he demonstrably is, but rather his inability to recreate that for the German team. Even if he is their best LW by skillset, if you don't perform on the day, you don't get a ticket on the plane... I'm okay with that. One thing it's CERTAINLY not about is an inability to develop in England or whatever the original point from White&Blue was...
Agreed with you (about the inability to develop in England...) on that one! As long as it messes up Germany's position and team chemistry - I don't really care who they bring or leave off the WC roster...I just really don't want them to win this summer...
Neuer, Kimmich, Boateng, Hummels, Hector Khedira, Kroos, Muller, Goretzka, Reus?? Werner? Is that even close? @White/Blue_since1860 what will Germany's first 11 looks like?
Sane had really good season, but perhaps that was in part due to all the space he was provided due to City's system? In the highest pressure games of the season in the CL he didn't produce, just as he didn't produce when he's played for Germany. You are minimizing the club dataset to find the data that best fits your hypothesis. We love Fekir's stats and say he'll be great for us, but discount Draxler's because Ligue 1 is weak? Can't have it both ways. You keep banging on about skill set, what exactly are you talking about? He's the fastest, sure, but are you saying he is technically superior to the others, better defensively, a better finisher, better under pressure? He hasn't proven himself to be any of those things. He's a really good young player, but he wasn't left out of the squad for some bums. He missed out because Germany has other really good players who the manager has more confidence producing because they have actually done it more often in a Germany shirt.
Fekir has outperformed Draxler for years, for one, and btw I'm not crazy about the signing, for two... if Klopp thinks he will work I trust him, because Klopp and those involved with transfers have earned that trust over the last few years. And I like Fekir's raw production. But I don't think he's a tremendous signing in the way Naby, Fabinho, and Firmino were. In fact I think he's a square peg in a round hole in this squad. As for direct comparison... I wouldn't mind Draxler for attack depth either! But guess who would be better than both of them? Sane. I already granted those guys played better for Germany. I'm just saying that's not a comprehensive look at them as players... it's 15-20% of their time on the pitch, so yeah I place more value on the larger numbers, the many many hundreds more minutes they play for club. As for City's system, how different will Germany's campaign really look? They'll dominate possession much of the time and create loads of chances for most of the cup, except for, what, perhaps 2 matches? That said, I realize Germany - Mexico will not look like Man City - Stoke. His combination of skills... that's what skillset means. He has the best combination of skills to make an effective left winger. His pace, his engine, his technique, his dribbling, his finishing, his passing/chance creation... is he better in EVERY category than Reus or Draxler, no definitely not. But he's better in the majority of the relevant categories. That's what better skillset means, the overall package of relevant skills. Draxler is a better CM and striker, I'm sure. That I assume is why he's on the squad. They really didn't take a bunch of pure wingers, which is probably another contributing factor. But I don't think Reus does must of anything better than Sane these days... if you swap Reus for Sane this past 6 months of the season, Man City is worse off and BVB are better. I didn't say that... I was trying to say he was left out for inferior wingers.
This comment begs the question: Does Klopp invest what would be the Fekir money on a midfield player or a goaltender? 60m is a lot of gelt. That's Alisson Becker kind of money. The Q may be purely academic cuz Nabil is supposedly at Melwood for a fisical. Oh, and does Liverpool want a Naby and a Nabil, both??? Just sayin'.
Every straightforward statement isn't "begging the question". I'm happy to explain why I think he's a square peg in a round hole, if you want... I doubt they're going to do business with Roma when it's clear they want to stick it to LFC after the CL and the steal of the Salah signing... I'd be shocked if they bought Alisson at this point. But it's not impossible.
In Germany Sane is called turnover machine so from inside it was hardly surprising. I personally fancy Draxler cause he already showed he can produce when it matters.
My initial point was that there is an opinion predominant here that you cant develop in EPL and that due to that players (even German ones) dont get much credit. Sane's 14 goals and 19 assists in EPL dont get you anywhere with the German team while hed probably if not almost definetly would start for England just because of people thinking these stats in the best league would mean anything
Yeah looks like the most likely outcome with Özil instead of Goretzka. But Germany can field a 3-5-2 also very easily
Yet previously Emre Can made it in the squad? The facts are you cannot question a coach who has a good international record as JL but this is a mistake not taking Sane
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-middle-east-44378669 Argentina has cancelled a World Cup warm-up match with Israel, apparently under political pressure over Israel's treatment of Palestinians in Gaza. Argentina striker Gonzalo Higuain told the ESPN sports channel on Tuesday the game had been cancelled. "They've finally done the right thing," Higuain said in an interview." ------- Argentina going all political