June 2019 Democratic Primary Debates - pre game/pbp/post game thread

Discussion in 'Elections' started by Boloni86, Jun 26, 2019.

  1. MatthausSammer

    MatthausSammer Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 9, 2012
    Canada
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Why did you visit that image upon me?
     
  2. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Just a guess, but I would imagine overrepresentation is what it took to get the smaller less populous states an incentive to join the Union.
     
  3. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If my understanding is correct, had the New Jersey plan won out, we would have a single Senate (no House of Reps) with equal representation (if the Republic survived up to this day with that type of Government).

    https://www.crf-usa.org/black-history-month/the-constitution-and-slavery
     
  4. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    1187714617474277381 is not a valid tweet id
     
  5. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    At least they were able to find a compromise relatively quickly and without violence. In Argentina it took decades of civil war between Unitarios and Federales, before they finally came up with a representation system for the provinces that pretty much mirrors that of the United States.
     
  6. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Colorful Colorado
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    On the other hand, the bicameral nature of the Congress grew from the same seed as the three-fifths compromise, none of which ultimately prevented the unpleasantness that occurred between 1861 and 1865.
     
    sitruc and argentine soccer fan repped this.
  7. Chicago76

    Chicago76 Member+

    Jun 9, 2002
    Not that what I'm about to say would happen, but it's kinda interesting to think about what the Senate would look like as its own big state/pop oriented vs. small state/equal sovereign oriented compromise. Currently, <18% of the population lives in small states that could in theory vote as a bloc and control the Senate. If Senate seats were based purely on population, 18% of the states (9) could in theory control the Senate.

    Large states would seek to maximize the theoretical minimum population in the small states needed to control the Senate.

    Small states would seek to maximize the number of large states required to do the same.

    In an ideal world, those percentages (percent of population in x smallest states vs. % of states making up the y largest states) needed for either to get control would be the same. 5 minutes of Excel on a rainy day keeping my kid on task for her book report show how skewed this is under the current system. If every state starts at two seats, allocating additional seats based upon apportionment standards, here are the states with more than 2:

    12 seats: CA
    9 seats: TX
    6 seats: FL and NY
    4 seats: IL, OH
    3 seats: GA, MI, NC, NJ, and VA

    That would leave 34% of the population in the 35 smallest states with the same power as the 34% of the states that comprise the largest states. Just puts numbers on how skewed this really is.
     
  8. I'm pretty sure this is incorrect.
     
  9. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    Biden would come across as a master statesman, because sometimes his next sentence follows from the previous one.
     
    bigredfutbol repped this.
  10. charlie15

    charlie15 Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    Bethesda, Md
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I am a bit puzzled by that sort of statements. Say what you want about Joe, he can be confusing at times, but he at least knows what he is talking about.
    He is not a bumbling idiot. I would bet my bottom dollar vs El Douche. He cleaned Paul Ryan's clock a few years ago after Obama fumbled badly vs Romney.
     
  11. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    I was agreeing with you. My intended point was that Joe doesn't have to do very much at all to look polished and articulate next to Trump, and Joe certainly can do that much, even if he has slipped noticeably.
     
  12. Chicago76

    Chicago76 Member+

    Jun 9, 2002
    I'd agree with both of you. Although that's a very low bar Joe is forced to meet. I'm willing to bet the majority of P&CE posters, with a month of debate/speaking+issue boot camp, could defeat Trump in a debate.
     
    MatthausSammer repped this.
  13. Q*bert Jones III

    Q*bert Jones III The People's Poet

    Feb 12, 2005
    Woodstock, NY
    Club:
    DC United
    Trump won't debate anybody. Why would he?
     
    bigredfutbol repped this.
  14. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Was that you who was talking about Democrats and wokeness? If so, and if you don't have an allergy to Bill Maher...
    \
     
    Q*bert Jones III and Chicago76 repped this.
  15. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Welcome to front runner status Elizabeth.

    https://www.economist.com/leaders/2019/10/24/elizabeth-warren-wants-to-remake-american-capitalism



    The top bar is what she would raise if she gets 100% of her new taxes.

    The second bar is what her programs would cost, so they are covered.

    Her problem is the 3rd bar, so far she has no plan on how to cover that increase in government spending.

    upload_2019-10-30_14-6-29.png


    https://www.economist.com/briefing/...-many-plans-would-reshape-american-capitalism
     
  16. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    Yes, but there will be $$$$$$$ not spent by companies and employees for the current private-insurance system. Those dollars will go back in the U.S., although where they will go is a good question. Higher corporate profits won't be of much help to people outside of shareholders.
     
    charlie15, sitruc and MatthausSammer repped this.
  17. song219

    song219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 5, 2004
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Vanuatu
    This is obvious. I normally expect better for The Economist. They didn't even mention this?
     
    charlie15 repped this.
  18. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    #693 JohnR, Oct 30, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
    I'll be honest. I haven't understood any discussions of single-payer economics. This article is typical. It cites an annual cost of "over $3 trillion" for Warren's nationalized health care plan. Say what? The U.S. spent $3.6 trillion on health care in 2017. Two thirds of that came from Medicare, Medicaid, and out-of-pocket payments from consumers.

    So Warren's plan only needs to replace $1.2 trillion. The remaining $2.4 trillion is already being paid by a combination of the government and the populace -- the very entities that are allegedly on the hook for that "over $3 trillion" in annual costs.

    Somebody is crazy, and this time it's not me.
     
    superdave and MatthausSammer repped this.
  19. charlie15

    charlie15 Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    Bethesda, Md
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Obvious indeed but not sure why you expect better from the Economist though. They have showed their hands a long time ago.
     
    dapip repped this.
  20. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    I can't find an author to that article. Something I've noticed recently about The Economist: a signed article is likely to be solid. An unsigned article is likely to be hacky. It's like the difference between the Wall Street Journal's actual reporting, and it's editorial page.
     
    song219 and charlie15 repped this.
  21. Q*bert Jones III

    Q*bert Jones III The People's Poet

    Feb 12, 2005
    Woodstock, NY
    Club:
    DC United
    Well, how about Barack Obama then?
    Barack Obama challenges 'woke' culture
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50239261
     
  22. sitruc

    sitruc Member+

    Jul 25, 2006
    Virginia
    I hate how these comments are being presented without any context even when it's fairly obvious what he was saying.
     
  23. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Correct, but to pay for the program that money needs to be captured by the government, Sanders will tax some of it by increasing the payroll tax. Warren has so far not said anything about how is she going to tax that money, because she probably assumes that may not be popular.
     
  24. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The economist does not give authors of their article (they may in a few recurring segments).

    https://www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2013/09/04/why-are-the-economists-writers-anonymous



    I remember is college a teacher gave me shit for using the economist as a reference with out the author information.

    I was, but it is the economist, the most trusted news magazine around the world.
     
    Dr. Wankler repped this.
  25. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    As the NYT wrote, not entirely disapprovingly, she has a veteran politician's ability to dodge the difficult questions.
     
    ceezmad repped this.

Share This Page