Josh Sargent's penalty miss

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by Sam Hamwich, Sep 8, 2019.

  1. Sam Hamwich

    Sam Hamwich BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 11, 2006
    Unlike most of you, I think CP allowed Sargent to take the penalty for several very important reasons:

    1. CP was protesting Sargent not starting this match and likely not joining the team for the gold cup.

    2. As a leader he wanted to make it clear, he supports Sargent and wants his confidence to boost.

    3. He wants other young players on the team to be leaders as well.


    I personally like this move. It shows maturity, awareness and most importantly, protest. Too bad he missed it, but I guarantee the kid will spend the next 5 years taking 40 penalties a day.
     
  2. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    May 4, 2002
    But the fact is that Sargent MISSED the PK. Yes he hit the goal frame BUT it was hit so poorly that an average U12 GK would save it.

    PKs should NEVER be missed and when they are the only "blame" is on the taker. It is the same for free kicks that hit the wall or are sailed over the top of the goal. It just shows that the taker has not practiced correctly or totally failed to maintain concentration.

    Of course this is true throughout soccer because really practicing PKs and free kicks takes 100s of successful reps before trying to increase power or placement and players hit 10 in practice and if they succeed 6 or 7 times they move on.
    Correctly practicing free kicks of any sort is boring and few players will even come close to mastering the free kick.

    But that is not on anyone but the player him or herself.

    A missed PK is a FAILURE.
    A free kick that hits the wall or is sailed over the top is a FAILURE.
    We, as fans, should treat those failures as exactly what they are and place the blame exactly where it belongs, on the player that failed.

    Why a given player was chosen for a kick does not matter at all. If he/she failed then it is a failure that only the player is responsible for.
     
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  3. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    CP takes a dump after the game.

    World class leadership he's obviously sending a message to the federation.
     
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  4. TarHeels17

    TarHeels17 Member+

    Jan 10, 2017
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    CP doesn't strike a ball well. This is a known thing. If anyone thinks he'd be a good penalty taker they're mistaken.
     
  5. ebbro

    ebbro Member+

    Jun 10, 2005
    I can agree with trying to boost Sargent's confidence. Not convinced about the protest thing.

    What does any of this have to with Sam's points?
    This is silly (if not sarcastic).
     
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  6. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    May 4, 2002
    It was pretty much just a response to:
    and agreeing and amplifying on that there needs to be a LOT more individual practice on free kicks in general.

    People seem to assume that good PK and free kick takers are somehow just created that way and I was saying that they are not and most players do not practice free kicks (including PKs) when not part of team practices because most players find that boring.

    As to the "why" of the choice I find that meaningless as nobody could even remotely know unless directly told by one of the parties involved.
     
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  7. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    Really though, it was emblematic of the entire evening.

    Lletget should have taken it. At least he was able to hit a pass.
     
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  8. SpencerNY

    SpencerNY Member+

    Dec 1, 2001
    Up in the skyway
    Even Jordan Morris would of been a better choice. He kind of won the penalty.
     
  9. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Memphis, Tn
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    im still unsure how much i care about this (in terms of whos "right/wrong" about what, seeing as its a penalty in a friendly) but i do have a few thoughts in general...

    we need a captain, to not just pass the armband around randomly based on whos locker is closest to the dressing room door or whatever we are doing now. we need (if not one dedicated player) some sense of who takes penalties- which a captain would know, and be in charge of handing the ball to anyone other than that player for whatever reason. one thing that did stick out was it seemed like no one had given a moments thought to what would happen in that scenario.

    i dont know what kind of hippie-ass/everyone gets to play nonsense is going on with this team under berhalter but instill some damn token, institutional leadership at the very least. sarachan coached this team like it was a box of those word magnets you move around on a refridgerator but even he had the sense to say "well, im damn sure gonna play trapp every minute so he gets the armband".

    bradley/trapp are going to play every minute so if only by default theres your captain/co-captain (which i guess makes zardes a vice captain as well).

    until we have a captain berhalter is the only leader. so any questions regarding leadership (such as who should take what penalties) fall directly to berhalter.

    one more note- which borders on trolling, but i think is probably relevant if youre going to argue about this one particular case- pulisic has never scored/assisted vs mexico. does that make him more/less "selfless hero"? more/less "coward who lacks killer instinct"?
     
  10. HScoach13

    HScoach13 Member

    Nov 30, 2016
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Penalties are not automatic only about 75% are made.
     
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  11. Woodrow

    Woodrow Member+

    Dec 7, 2001
    Brick City
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Kicks are about focus and muscle memory. Just like free throws, it is a skill that can be developed through repetition. If a player can put a driven shot into either corner of the upper 90, they should be able to bury 80% or more of their kicks. The good kicker takers keep it simple, don't get distracted by goalie antics, and take an approach that allows them to pick out either side when the kick is taken. The confidence comes when you take enough kicks in practice that during a game, you can just relax and do it the way you always do it. Facing the wrong way, jukes and stutter steps are all pretty irrelevant if your mechanics are sound and the ball is struck with enough force. Goalies just can't catch up with a well-placed, driven kick. Occasionally, the goalie will guess correctly and dive early enough to catch up to the ball, but that should be a rarity if the kicker just does their job right.

    It's like getting to Carnegie Hall.
     
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  12. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    It was a poor penalty. It was also highly unusual to give a teenager who has barely featured for the team the ball in that situation. I can see the thought that it would have been good for his confidence to get a goal and it certainly did show that whatever you make of it, Pulisic obviously respects Sargent. But that there wasn't a clear directive as to who would be taking penalties is pretty poor preparation.
     
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  13. tbonepat11

    tbonepat11 Member+

    Jun 21, 2001
    Sargent just didn't hit well.

    For me penalties either need to be the chess match/mind game sort of thing that Neymar can do and make 100% or.....

    blast it upper 90. Just rip it. Anything in between is 50/50 the keeper guesses right.

    Goalies are allowed to cheat and move early so you have to put it upper 90 if you are going to just shoot. The "send the keeper the wrong way" thing is in response to goalies cheating and moving early.
     
  14. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    May 4, 2002
    It should be more like 90% but players just do not self motivate well enough to practice correctly.
    Practice does NOT make perfect, practice makes permanent. Correctly stated it is, "perfect practice makes perfect." Players tend to practice free kicks and PKs until they get it right a few times while what they should do is practice until they virtually never get it wrong.
     
  15. HScoach13

    HScoach13 Member

    Nov 30, 2016
    Club:
    Atlanta
    So you are saying professional league players with a 75% are not self motivated enough?
     
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  16. Sam Hamwich

    Sam Hamwich BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 11, 2006
    CP has no donovan. He has no dempsey. He has no cherundelo. He has no mastroeni. No Jermaine Jones. No cameron. He has no veteran on the pitch to help him. Not one. Morales? never gets called up. MB? Didn't do a goddamn thing for him in qualifying. Costa Rica beats up my star? Ok, no problem. Panama, Honduras, Mexico, please have your fill, it's open season on the kid. Is Will Trapp going to be bring the veteran leadership? Zardes? I mean wtf?

    CP correctly realizes or intuitively understands, he only has what he builds himself because Beerholder is an MLS patsy. That backline of Steffen, Long, Cannon, Zimmerman and an OUT OF POSITION DEST PLAYING IN HIS FIRST MATCH, that frequently left it at a 4 v. 1 or a 5 v 0 because they cannot pass and the coaches can't line them up correctly is a joke when asked to play football.

    CP needs Sargent to step up. He needs Adams to displace MB. He needs Wes to learn how to make attacking passes. He needs Boyd to get stuck in. He needs Morris to kill his dog and focus on football. He needs help and it doesn't look as if anyone in US Soccer is going to provide it.
     
  17. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    May 4, 2002
    Yes. A PK % of 75 s NOT good enough. Pros should be able to achieve at least 85% and most should get to 90% or better. It is not hard to hit one of two areas of 9 square feet in the corners from the spot and any decently hit shot into those areas will never be saved.

    In fact the area of virtually certain success is actually much larger. More like 24 square feet each. (Two triangles 4 ft tall and 12 feet wide.) Just a moderate hit into one of those is nearly unstoppable.
     
  18. HScoach13

    HScoach13 Member

    Nov 30, 2016
    Club:
    Atlanta
    So all the coaches in the biggest leagues in the world are falling down on the job?
     
  19. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    May 4, 2002
    Just because it has always been that way does not mean it should always be that way.

    BTW: I said NOTHING about the coaches. It is self motivation and practice away from team practices that will produce the best performance and coaches have little to do with that. It is the player's choice to practice or not to practice free kicks and most are just too lazy to practice when not under pressure to do so.
     
  20. HScoach13

    HScoach13 Member

    Nov 30, 2016
    Club:
    Atlanta
    When players fail to self motivate who does this responsibility fall too?

    BTW Messi's career is 77.3%
    Last season all comps 85%
     
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  21. HScoach13

    HScoach13 Member

    Nov 30, 2016
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Cristiano Ronaldo's career is 83%
    all comps last season 85.7%
     
  22. Woodrow

    Woodrow Member+

    Dec 7, 2001
    Brick City
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Yeah, most players will never get enough game reps to ever consider a PK attempt a lock to go in, which makes prepping for those situations even more important. But, I'd take an 80-85% make it record. Unlike b-ball FT, where a decent player will get 10 attempts per game, the PK is a one-off or even one every 2-3 off. So they practice PK's. And corners. And free kicks. And just mess around, trying to do stuff.
     
  23. Andy Zilis

    Andy Zilis Member+

    Mar 9, 2005
    Rochelle, IL
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't see the issue with Pulisic turning down the PK. It was a meaningless PK late in a game we were losing 3-0 and he handed it off to a talented young forward who hasn't had much opportunity with the full national team yet. I don't buy into the whole 'protesting the federation' aspect, but I just can't see this as a failure of leadership on his part.

    Plus, do we even know he's a great PK taker? The best PK takers aren't always the players you'd expect. Pulisic could turn out to be the best player the US has ever produced and be lousy at PKs at the same time.
     
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  24. um_chili

    um_chili Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    Losanjealous
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The truth is we have no idea what his motivation was. Attributing it to selfish heroism or poor leadership is just choosing one of several narratives that fit the facts. In bad times people tend to look to small stuff like this for symbolic value, either a sign that things are indeed terrible or hope for the future. Likely it was neither.
     
  25. Sam Hamwich

    Sam Hamwich BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 11, 2006
    Sure. I posted this because I feel for the kid. Anyone who has had to stand alone against a system, a team, a form of management, an organization I sympathize with him. He is being exploited by US Soccer because he loves his country and teammates. He is that new generation of guys who wants to lift the team rather than benefit himself. The guy can shatter every single US record with ease. That's no big deal.
     

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