Jermaine Jones rips into Jordan Morris for his decision to stay in MLS

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by schrutebuck, Oct 13, 2017.

  1. That's only true for the countries that have dominated the tournements after the 2nd WW. As I posted it's not only about quality players, but also about the psycho internalized by a country getting on the pitch.
    The Belgians had a far better selection than the Orange team in Brasil, but they failed. Playing a tournement successfully is a learning experience, which is different from an occasional success some countries have. With the luck of a good bunch of players you sometimes get into a semi final. An attitude gets you there on a regular basis.
     
  2. When one's typing a reply for the thread and you're a slow typer like me other posters replies appear than the sequence of posts becomes little bit odd.
     
  3. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    This messenger kills the message. Has JJ ever open a mouth to say anything not self serving?
     
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  4. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Right, there are things more fundamental than domestic vs abroad when it comes to success and sustained improvement.

    In that sense, Belgium and England will be interesting to watch. They have invested heavily in youth development.
     
  5. It will be interesting to see if Belgium with their overload of quality players has matured as a tournement team and turns quality into results.
     
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  6. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Martíno provides his view... shouldn’t Garber attack him publicly or acknowledge he was wrong going after Klinsmann and having a role in us not going to the WC?

    https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2017...rtino-us-soccer-must-focus-player-development

    Develop young players,” Martino said through a translator. “There needs to be a bigger demand in terms of preparation. I think the academies have to have a higher demand of how they prepare players.”

    Martino, who previously led club teams in Paraguay and Argentina and global powerhouse Barcelona, also believes the most elite American players should test themselves abroad.

    “It’s important that this league has grown a lot and continues to grow, but it’s important to incentivize the very best players to someday play in Europe because that’s where the best competition is,” he said.

    Martino isn’t the first to make this argument, and he’s not the first to share an opinion on how American soccer should change. Former players, analysts and fans have offered a long list of possible cures in recent weeks: new leadership at the top, less arrogance, more elite youth academies, coaches and scouts and fewer young players being priced out of the game through pay-to-play.
     
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  7. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Eleven,

    Are you implying that a team who plays entirely in the minor leagues (less than top 10 leagues) is just as likely to win a World Cup as those whose players frequent the UCL knockout rounds?

    Or are you saying that only teams with top 10 leagues can win the World Cup?

    Finally, you previously mentioned that there were numerous players who said that their time in a more competitive environment didn't impact them. Can you point me to some quotes please?
     
  8. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    Should Morris have gone to Werder, as a 20-21 year old? This was presumably the best team in the best league that would take a flier on a young national team player available for free.

    In some people's simplistic model, highest quality team = highest value added to player's development. I believe that highest quality development environment = highest value added to player's development.

    Morris is a player with a few elite qualities and some huge holes in his game. He likely had not been exposed to, and incorporated into his game, high quality coaching. To me he is a player who needed to learn how to apply his athletic abilities to the game by learning how to make better runs and reading which one to make, when. He also needed to learn how to do that against full professionals at a decent level over many reps.

    Werder was a bridge too far for Morris. He was not good enough to get consistent minutes on a Bundesliga team other than as a change of pace option. He needed to go to a team where he could learn and play. In the end he went to a team where he could accomplish the latter.
     
  9. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    if I recall the manager spoke highly of him. It's not as if Morris was a star. He was just a star in the college system in the USA. Which was probably semi-pro by Bundesliga standards. I have no idea if he would have succeeded or failed, but it seems at the time he would have gotten a chance at least.
     
  10. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Morris had a snowflake's chance in hell in the BuLi.

    Do you think a guy who couldn't use his left foot would have made the fast impression new, cheap arrivals need to make?

    Even in MLS he didn't look that hot at first. In Bremen, after a couple of games not producing, he'd have been benched and eventually sent to the reserves.

    He'd be much less useful to the NT, had he moved there.
     
  11. Mantis Toboggan M.D.

    Philadelphia Union
    United States
    Jul 8, 2017
    If he stayed at the parent club, yes. But I think it's just as likely Werder would have anticipated this and loaned him out to a BL2 or Eredivisie team where he could have developed his game to a greater degree possible than in MLS while also getting regular minutes.
     
  12. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    I doubt playing at Werder II or Greuther Fürth does much for a NT career, TBH.
     
  13. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    This is what I think ultimately would have happened. he would be 21 when he went abroad. He wouldn't be a lost cause for Bremen. Not yet anyway
     
  14. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    He should absolutely gone if his goal was to play in a top league and make a difference for our national team.

    In your simplistic model does MLS = the highest quality development environment? I sure don’t. I think he’d be a much better player today if he spent a half season training with Werder and then maybe going out on loan.

    I don’t think he needed to play, but would have been best served to have gone somewhere that taught him how to play the game at a high level and what the deficiencies are in his game. He chose to pick a place to play against substandard competition and ignore his weaknesses. It appears to me that he chose to put a cap on his career. I wouldn’t be surprised to hear from him in 10+ years about how he wished he would have made a different decision.
     
  15. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Playing Seattle shouldn’t either. The difference would be if he could dig in and develop his game such that he used that time in the lower league to push. Himself into Werder’s First team... and if he couldn’t, he shouldn’t be in our national team.
     
  16. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    So I finally watched the actual Jones video. Interesting, name-dropping Scotland as a premier destination when that hasn't helped recent U.S. players there very much at all. Maybe they took their puppies with them and were distracted.
     
  17. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Edu, Beasley, Bedoya, and Bocanegra played in Scotland.

    Kitchen, Emo, and Gideon also did well there.
     
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  18. Mantis Toboggan M.D.

    Philadelphia Union
    United States
    Jul 8, 2017
    BL2 is probably comparable level of play to MLS, but with better coaching and development. At worst, maybe it hurts his chances at a US callup for a year or so but then assuming he fights his way into at least rotational minutes at Werder--something he IMO had the talent to do with some seasoning--he would've been a much more polished and complete player say 2 years after the move than he is.
     
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  19. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    that would be in a few months...
     
  20. comoesa

    comoesa Member+

    Aug 13, 2010
    Christen Press's armpit
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He's basically critiquing how Carleton was brought along.

    We need solid coaches at every level. The USSF should be addressding that somehow.
     
  21. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    Not sure those guys are evidence for Scotland as a prime career path. Bedoya is the only one here that moved up to regular playing time in a better league after playing in Scotland.
     
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  22. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    Boca was 32 when he moved to the Scottish league. So his peak had already gone. Edu was doing pretty well in Scotland, but chose the wrong team in the wrong league. He did have Turkish and French interest. Might have done better.

    Bedoya found a small French team where he could start for.
     
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  23. Mantis Toboggan M.D.

    Philadelphia Union
    United States
    Jul 8, 2017
    Yep. Of course it's unfair to blame his injury on MLS, that could've just as easily happened in Europe, but I think if he'd signed with Werder when he had the chance he might have dropped off the radar for a bit but we'd be seeing an improvement in his game right about now.
     
  24. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How is presumably speaking his opinion on how the NT as a whole can be at its best, self serving?

    Jones isn't ever going to play in a WC again.

    This is part of the problem which haunts this landscape. Truth in criticism is brushed off as "well you can't trust the messenger".

    Good nations don't do that.

    I guess it's easier to pretend a former legit Bund UCL starter and Schalke stud who also was one of our top 2-3 players in Brazil just doesn't have a clue. We should instead trust those who failed to get us to the WC. It's not like their profit over development model hasn't been self serving.....
     
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  25. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    This is nothing but "Look at me. I'm a CL player and you aren't. Doesn't give a shit about NT or any other team he played on".
     
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