News: Jermaine Jones criticizes the USWNT equal pay and says Alex Morgan too outspoken

Discussion in 'USA Women: News and Analysis' started by McSkillz, Aug 1, 2019.

  1. McSkillz

    McSkillz Member+

    ANGEL CITY FC, UCLA BRUINS
    United States
    Nov 22, 2014
    Los Angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  2. rustysurf83

    rustysurf83 Member

    Dec 30, 2015
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    That’s a painful take...It would be difficult to purposely sound more obtuse than Jones does here.
     
  3. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This from Jones says a lot about him (emphasis added): "Of course, as men we know it's tougher to win a World Cup than the girls."
     
    Bob Lamm, Semblance17, ytrs and 2 others repped this.
  4. blissett

    blissett Member+

    Aug 20, 2011
    Italy
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    I had noticed it right away too. I guess he could have never happened to say, for a slip of tongue, "boys" and "women". :rolleyes:

    Of course, being aginst the equal pay is a legitamate opinion, but the arguments Jones chose sound very poor and awkward, to say the least.
     
    Bob Lamm, Semblance17 and McSkillz repped this.
  5. Timon19

    Timon19 Member+

    Jun 2, 2007
    Akron, OH
    English isn't his first language.

    On the other hand, aside from a couple of the usual points awkwardly delivered, I'm not sure why he bothered.

    On the gripping hand, if I had been a part of the USMNT (and say what you will about JJ and him coming to play for the US after Germany stopped being interested, but that guy would run through walls if it helped the US win) in recent times and I suddenly found my and my teammates' abilities and even heart called into question repeatedly (and additionally for him personally, his Americanness), I'd probably hit a breaking point, too. Whether or not any of the above was intentionally sparked by the USWNT, the reality is that lots of their supporters end up needlessly pitting the two sets of players against one another.
     
  6. MRAD12

    MRAD12 Member+

    Jun 10, 2004
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    #6 MRAD12, Aug 2, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2019
    You cannot compare the men's game with the women's game on the Wold stage. Many women's supporters are always saying "the US Women are better than the US men because they win more". False. The men consistently face better competition game in and game out, tournament after tournament, friendly after friendly than US women.
    It is much, much harder for the US men to win than the US women because of better competition in the men's game. JJ was right, IMO when saying that.

    He is also right IMO about the pay. The men do not get paid year round by the Fed like the women do.
    What he is saying is because of the contract, a woman player can suck on her club team and still be called up on the National team because of the contract. The men have to actually, in most cases play well for thier club before being called up to the National Team and get paid per game.

    I have always said, if the women want the same thing as the men, then get rid of the contract and get paid per game, just like the men. You can't have it both ways.
     
  7. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    The Mickey Mouse Club or The breakfast Club
    May 4, 2002
    Limbo
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Maybe that is because the US men are simply not very good at all. There is some truth that there are more good teams on the men's side than on the women's and that would impact the chances of winning a WC but, if the men were actually any good at all, they would at least be in the discussion for World Cup possibilities instead of always having to worry about simple qualification out of a crappy and EXTREMELY weak region like CONCACAF.

    In the US men's soccer is third rate or worse and the women are first rate. All the rest of the arguments about how they are paid are meaningless since the "equal pay" debate is only about matches played for and time spent with the US National teams. NWSL, MLS and all other leagues are meaningless to the discussion. The women are better retaliative to the rest of the world's women by far than the men are retaliative to the rest of the men's teams BUT that does not mean they should be paid more, it just means that they deserve equal compensation.

    It also means that when the when the men screw up or succeed it should not be reflected on the women and when the women screw up or succeed it should not impact the men.

    In fact I would be mostly in favor of having two federations to get the male bias as far away from the women as possible.

    Lastly, using Jermaine Jones as any kind of representative for soccer either male or female is like using the kid that failed to get out of the seventh grade twice to represent a school. He has never shown any ability to think, but he does run pretty good.
     
  8. MRAD12

    MRAD12 Member+

    Jun 10, 2004
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Correct. "Matches played for and time spent with the US National teams".

    So drop the year-round contract for the women and pay them equal but just like the men, per game. That would also give the USWNT Coach latitude to bring in anyone she/he feels should be on the team and not just those who are under contract for that year.
     
    Auriaprottu repped this.
  9. Timon19

    Timon19 Member+

    Jun 2, 2007
    Akron, OH
    This is either rank revisionism or it is a consequence of not following the men's side much. Leaving aside past criticisms of the FIFA World Rankings for a moment, the the men have enjoyed repeated forays north of the top 20 and have never fallen below 34 since they began keeping track in 1993. In fact FIFA'S site has a nice graph from 1993 to present, and the average position is 20. That, by definition, is quite good. 90th percentile, basically.

    From 2002 to 2005 was the highest stretch: #10, #11, #11, #8. Right now, they are #22.

    And yet the latter is being entertained by more and more people who have no sense of perspective.

    That's a good way to get FIFA to ban you.

    Where is this extraordinary bitterness coming from?
     
    sheilman94 repped this.
  10. Semblance17

    Semblance17 Member+

    United States
    Apr 27, 2013
    Lighthouse Point, FL
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #10 Semblance17, Aug 2, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2019
    Yeah, it's pretty tough to win a World Cup when you can't even qualify for one.
     
    blissett and Bob Lamm repped this.
  11. Semblance17

    Semblance17 Member+

    United States
    Apr 27, 2013
    Lighthouse Point, FL
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    While it is true that no other country in the world invests as much in women's football as the United States, that reality merely makes it logical that the USWNT is able to command their side of the sport as much as they do. It does not by any means guarantee that dominance. The team spirit, energy, and drive that has truly secured the USWNT that top spot can seldom be seen in the USMNT's performances.

    I've said it in other threads as I do here. When faced with tremendous challenges in important games, the USWNT [with a few rare exceptions] has a pattern of rising to the occasion, while the USMNT has tended to fall from it.
     
  12. Timon19

    Timon19 Member+

    Jun 2, 2007
    Akron, OH
    That's a pretty odd take, as most observers on the men's side agree that the whole-greater-than-sum-of-parts and extraordinary fitness have been hallmarks and features of the program that only recently have been questioned.
     
    lil_one repped this.
  13. Caulfield

    Caulfield Member

    May 31, 2004
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Pretty hard to argue with that. The women just line up and play who’s across from them.
     
    McSkillz and Semblance17 repped this.
  14. zdravstvuyte

    zdravstvuyte Member

    Aston Villa
    United States
    Jul 26, 2018
    Back on tour !!!
    lol..noise maker Jones
    US men suck ass.
    I wouldn’t cross the road or switch channels from my couch to watch their games.

    Pay should be based on merit.
     
  15. puttputtfc

    puttputtfc Member+

    Sep 7, 1999
    Please define merit. For USSF/SUM, merit equals dollars. For fans of USWNT, merit means championships. For players named Zerboni, Huerta or Mace, merit is a poor choice of words as they are locked out of the USWNT.
     
    Dfwsoccer01 and Auriaprottu repped this.
  16. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Pretty sure it was.

    Black American citizen born overseas, hearing the suggestion by Wambach that he and others like him aren't American enough? The thinly veiled idea that he was nothing more than the product of a weekend bender? Yeah, he probably DID have a chuckle. I know I did, and I was born here.
     
    Chicago76, Shen-O, russ and 1 other person repped this.
  17. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Pay should be based on what your club can afford to pay based on the revenue you bring the club.

    Click here, and tell your friends to do the same
    http://www.nwslsoccer.com/tickets
     
  18. zdravstvuyte

    zdravstvuyte Member

    Aston Villa
    United States
    Jul 26, 2018
    Back on tour !!!
    A meritocracy
     
  19. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    It was never a meritocracy, zdravstvuyte. Pinoe never got the chance to compete against and unseat Jozy Altidore on a team made up of whoever was good enough to make the team, regardless of gender. And that's unfortunate for Jozy, as he didn't even get to warm the bench for a champion.

    You're probably thinking of sport as being like medicine, where the results have real-life consequences. It's not. It's more like... acting, where the talent earns what they earn based on how many people are willing to spend money on the films or plays they appear in.

    I really can't say enough that more butts in seats at NWSL matches will close the income gap more quickly than anything else would. The USSF can't afford to pay anyone what Pulisic earns, let alone what Messi earns (suggested a while back by a poster here).
     
    RalleeMonkey repped this.
  20. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    The Mickey Mouse Club or The breakfast Club
    May 4, 2002
    Limbo
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    But what is being discussed here is pay for play and time with the National Team. That has absolutely nothing to do with clubs.
     
  21. Dfwsoccer01

    Dfwsoccer01 Member

    Jun 23, 2014
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    National Team pay should be based on:

    - yearly revenue by team: ticket and merch sales
    - tv viewers (based on some sort of balanced broadcasting formula)
    - overall team performance per year (with WC and Olympic years weighing more heavily)
    -overall player performance per year (games played, etc.)
    - club and country pay should be completely separate as the men’s are women’s leagues aren’t in the same ballpark when it comes to revenue

    Bottom line: make the FORMULA for how men and women are paid the same. Currently, how each are paid is silly. Two completely different formats.

    The men obviously don’t want a pay scale that focuses on results and performance because they’re terrible. That said, maybe it would light a spark to make them better as there is no reason on God’s green earth that a country with the 3rd highest population in the world and the financial resources we have, can’t field a top ranking 10 team in the world consistently. It’s embarrassing, and that more than anything is why I would like to see the women get more money. And yes, I’m fully aware the level of play between men and women globally is 10 fold, but the men have got to get better. We’ve been saying for 20 years, men’s soccer is about to break through....still waiting....
     
  22. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    I 100% understand that. Butts in seats will make the USSF stipend meaningless, aside from the obvious crap like turf for the women, poor grass pitches, lower per diem and poor accomodations. That should never have happened.

    Were I on the USMNT, I'd have been glad to sacrifice my accomodations to give the women nicer, safer places to stay. I don't know why the USMNT didn't exercise a bit of chivalry there.
     
  23. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    The Mickey Mouse Club or The breakfast Club
    May 4, 2002
    Limbo
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    i understand, from a couple of articles I recently read, that the USWNT players receive no money for a friendly that they loose or tie.

    1st - Is that true?
    2nd - If it is is it also true for the men?
    3rd - If true what is the justification?
    4th - Does time played in a match count at all or is the pay just for appearance or is it for just making the roster?
    5th - Is "performance" in a friendly used for pay on any other national teams? If so which?
     
  24. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    A small stipend plus per diem. It's NT Ball.

    Of course there is. There is no football culture here. We have a league, but no culture. The best American athletes for this game are still out there trying to be point guards and defensive backs in middle and high school. everybody else kicks a ball every day with the best athletes in their neighborhood or city.

    Germany
    Brasil
    Argentina
    The Netherlands
    England
    Italy
    Spain
    France
    Portugal

    Mexico

    Whose footy culture you gonna surpass? 3/4 of the world's nations would like to be as terrible as the USMNT- several WC appearances and one QF, one semi decades ago, several continental titles... Consistent top ten is pie in the sky.

    1st- Don't know if that's true, but I've read the same. I'd be interested in whether any of this was covered in the last CBA.
    2nd- Probably not.
    3rd- FIFA money. Does FIFA determine how that money is allocated?
    4th- No idea.
    5th- Probably not. The idea of a fed paying enough to NT members to make any of this meaningful is likely limited to the USA. Club football pays your value.[/QUOTE]
     
    sheilman94 and Timon19 repped this.
  25. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think this is true on the men's side. Otherwise, there really would be no excuse for the men not being a top 10 team on a consistent basis, given the US population. But it's tough when your best athletes are drawn to other sports that are deeply ingrained in the culture and where they can make a whole lot more money. For the women, on the other hand, soccer is competing to draw the best athletes.
     
    sheilman94 repped this.

Share This Page