Japanese Abroad 2009/10 [R] - Part II

They have a lot of fans around the world, that's true. In terms of producing an on-field product that Japanese soccer would have any reason to envy, they haven't been a big club in 25-plus years.

Guarantee whatever you like. It doesn't make it true, nor does being able to out-thug the likes of Motherwell twice a year and pip Rangers over two legs to win a trophy in Scotland compel the respect of anyone who isn't a born and bred fan of Scotish football. Scots are welcome to their own football culture but to presume it is superior to Japan's because it is "in Europe" is the epitome of Eurocentrism. Japanese soccer leaves Scottish soccer flat dead in its wake in terms of the quality of play.

Anyone who rates Nakamura just because he played at Celtic, and Celtic must be big beacuse it wins lots of trophies "in Europe" is indulging in exactly the nonsense I abhor. I don't care if they are authentic Glaswegians or plastic fans from China, the mentality is rubbish.

Assume for the sake of argument that you are even correct about the top 3-5 point (and I would dispute that you are). But now take the Japanese players who are wasting their time in Europe and add them instead to the talent pool of the top squads in the J-League. If Gamba goes into the Club World Cup with a Matsui instead of a Hashimoto (yes I know that Matsui played for Kyoto before he left, but suppose he made an intra-J League move instead of abroad), say, that difference in quality could be critical.

Whatever, dude.

That kind of statement s the DEFINITION of Eurocentrism. It is sheer blind bias with no basis in objective fact.

First of all, NOBODY would equate the talent level of those "stayers" with the "goers." Secondly, Fukunishi and Morioka had fantastic careers in the J-League as far as I'm concerned. Ichikawa was an enigma but Toda had a solid and occasionally brilliant career.

I would highly suggest that you think over why those leagues have any right to claim they are better than the J-League other than that they are "in Europe." How many teams have those leagues sent to the Club World Cup recently? Yeah, that's what I thought. J-League outdoes all of them COMBINED since the competition began. "But its so much harder to get in from Europe" comes the Euro-excuse, and so it goes, ad nauseum. Dismiss any evidence that goes against the preconception that because Europe has the world's 10 richest and best clubs, all of European soccer is beatified by their halo. Not hardly, mate.

 

Isn't winning the World Cup the ultimate goal?

Until Japan can win the World Cup using players only playing in the J-league I don't think that staying in Japan is the only option.

Also is there really anything wrong with Euro centrism? You complain about how biased they are, but aren't you being biased towards the J-league and overestimating it a bit much? Nothing wrong with your beliefs, but complaining about Euro centrism is somewhat hypocritical.

I really don't understand what is wrong with trying to get recognition from other countries. I'm sure that many players are satisfied with being recognized in Japan, but the World is a big place and for others maybe being recognized in Japan only is not enough so you can't really question those who go to Europe.

 

Let me start this off by saying that I think J League is better than the Scottish League. However, there is a reason to envy the Scottish League. The two strong teams, Celtic and Rangers, are able to attract players that no J League teams can. Maybe this has something to do with Euro centrism. But the fact is that Celtic can attract McDonald, and Grampus can only attract Kennedy.

Quality doesn't always bring you success. My beloved Arsenal wouldn't be trophyless for so long if it were the case.

I never said people rate Nakamura because he played for Celtic. Its because of what he did on the field. If he played like that playing for Marinos, people would still notice.

You are being extremely biased if you think Gamba with Matsui, Inamoto, Ono, and whoever Japanese you want can beat Manchester United.

"Better" may not have been the best word I could have chosen. "Harder" would have been better. But I guess harder to win something makes it better. Like I said before, J League is very good from top to bottom teams. But if you just take the top teams, we are just not at the same level because of the reasons I gave with Celtic and Rangers. We just cannot attract the players. To win the Dutch League or UEFA Cup(top teams from each country!!), you need to be able to beat the best, and no teams in J League can really compete with that.

I never said Fukunishi, Morioka, Ichikawa, or Toda had a bad career. They had a fantastic career, I agree. I am just saying that Morioka, Ichikawa, and Toda could have also played in 2006(age wise) but they didn't. So staying in J League didn't really do anythign for them. Wasting your talent and time has nothing to do with going abroad or not.

Once agian, I never said those leagues are better than the J League!! The reason those leagues never send anyone to the Club World Cup is because the EPL and La Liga are so ahead of them, just as the J League is way ahead of any other leagues in Asia. Surely you don't think a team from J League would win the European Champions League.

There is a reason why not only players from Asia, but also from South America and Africa want to play in Europe. Maybe it is because everyone believes in this Euro centrism. But at the moment, this is the way it is. Lets say all the Japanese players stayed in J League. If what you believe is true, Japan would have a serious shout at winning the World Cup.

You need to calm down and read carefully because you are too focused on trying to prove that you are right and you have utterly missed my point.

 

well yay for inamoto going back to japan. if he gets a regular starting place, i wanna see him in melbourne

 

Matsui just scored against Montpellier in Coupe de France.

 

lol... no J-league is nowhere near top-9 euro leagues. Probably somewhere in between UPL, SPL, BPD and SAS.

 

I watch Ligue 1 every week, my team's matches and lot others. Bordeaux and Lyon are qualified for the next round of the Champions League and Bordeaux had the better total of points of all the teams, and beat Juventus and Bayern. This champ is good for sure.
But the J-League is technically above. So I'm with American Kaka on this point.

 

Morimoto just scored tap-in against Parma.

 

And there it is, Eurocentrism in a nutshell.
What is the "argument" in favor of Europe? "lol"... kneejerk derision. No thought or knowledge behind it.

 

About damn time Morimoto scored. Hope he continues with it.

 

No J-league is nowhere close to League 1 technically and especially physically. Don't be delusional. It's almost like usa (brazilian, russian doesn't matter) fanboy's blaming "brutish" and "primitive" soccer in EPL, Bundesliga etc. when their player fail to make impact.

It's especially hip now to bitch about EPL mid-table, low-table clubs.

 

Please continue to serve as Case Study A in Eurocentrism.
Any other canards you would like to trot out for us?

 

Dude i actually watched few J-league matches on eurospot-2. Don't get me wrong the organization from camera work to pitch quality and crowds is top-notch. Very close to top-5 euro leagues and miles ahead of what we have in Russia for example. But the quality of soccer is nowhere near to even Russia, Portugal or Turkey. It's slow paced soft (even softer and more wide open than Eredivisie) soccer.

There is a lot of south american and balkan players in J-league. How many of them has NT caps?

 

May I ask what your "argument" in favor of Japan is?

 

Morimoto looked pretty good coming in as a sub.

He started off brightly with a missed chance and then the goal, but kinda faded near the end.

 

Come on man, I'm french, I know what I'm talking about. Physically, surely, but technically ? No way.

 

Sorry dude, this is a common misconception among connoisseurs of "beautiful" football. One yard passes in the middle of a field, friendly match tempo and hectares of open space is not technical football for me.

Honestly i think a stuffy mid-table team from Russia, Turkey or a team like Standard liege or Steaua Bucharest is going to dominate J-League.

 

Did you ever see the NT playing ? Or the youth teams ? They're always dominating the opposite team, even when they lose ... The tempo is very high, the players are always running cuz of their excellent stamina, it's really impressing. Sometimes they finish by getting tired but sometimes not, and in this case this is a total display of football total. I have to admit that some games are played on a low tempo but some others are very good and technically fantastic. Watch the highlights of Kashima-Gamba.

My point is that they can adjust to the opposite team. Whan they have to play quickly, they do it.

 

Speaking of the Russian Premier League...

Lokomotiv Moscow is interested in Uchida

http://sports.yahoo.co.jp/news/20100124-00000020-spn-socc.html

 

Honda played and scored today for CSKA in the team first friendly match this year (against Neuchatel Xamax). Played in the attacking midfielder position. Also assisted at second goal. Match ended 2:2.

 

Promising. Did you see the match ? If yes, what did you thought of him ?

 

About 30 spectators arrived on the match, nobody more have seen it. But I've heard that there were 4 journalists from Japan, so a report is possible. From what I've heard, Honda had good match, was dangerous and made several defence-splitting passes which were not converted by team-mates. Although the assist was lucky, h tried to shot but miskicked the ball and it went to his partner.

 

Morimoto came off the bench in the 76th and scored in the 77th in a 3-0 win over Parma. Morimoto's celebration was huge as it was his first goal since the 4th round of serie a.

 

Yeah! That should be obvious. Come on dude, what are you thinking? Jeez . . . silly J.League supporters, think theyre so technical and competitive. This is a common misconception. Dont you remember how much Russia dominated Japan in the World Cup?

Oh, wait ...