Japanese Abroad 2009/10 [R] - Part I

Re: Japanese Abroad 2009/10 [R]

Yes, we will see Intervention was the focus back in Nakata/Inamoto/Ono/Nakamura olympics generation, but now it is not. Some time after 2002 WC there was something of a collective realization that a monolithic movement with a pyramid is the answer, and while slow going, that's where everything will go. There are some exceptions still in the system, like Honda, where a university player is inconspicuously marked and aided so a path opens up, but that's about it.

The bottom line is that there is no other way in a long run. Otherwise we end up with a good blip where an awful lot of effort/money was poured in, and no way you can sustain that over 10 to 100 years. Every mistake a player makes is a lesson learned collectively and I'm sure we'll make many mistakes. Being miserable is part of the system, so I'd get used to it if I were you

To produce a truly top player systematically, I believe it will take at least another few cycles of events we witnessed in the past several years. If sooner, consider us lucky. Until then, we will produce players who are decent in their own right, but still steps behind the players produced by the football superpowers. The best we'll likely to get is a player who stretches upward to just about touch the top and we'll have to rely on other things such as commercial value to help them along. The most crucial thing is that it happens as a natural course of the organic development, else it will just become a blip in the grand scheme of things.

Everything else is just statistics, so while we should enjoy the process, it's pointless having mood swings as a result of it. I admire and envy your passion though. The only time I get truly upset is when I look back at missed opportunities in the past. For the present and future, I don't really look at them in isolation so maybe I don't quite enjoy/taste it as much as you do. That's probably why sometimes I find places like this overexuberant and temperamental. I still enjoy it though!

Anyway... enough typing for a day I'll hibernate again for a while.

 

Re: Japanese Abroad 2009/10 [R]

I didn't think matsui was too bad tbh.

he looked better then than most of his games at etienne. Also he looked like he was pursuing his old style and just lacking a little form. It'll come.

 

Re: Japanese Abroad 2009/10 [R]

well, the SPL as a whole isnt too good, and if you take out Rangers and Celtic the league would struggle to measure up against all 3 of the scandinavian leagues. However, from Celtic to Stabæk there is a MAJOR gap, but say, if Mizuno played for Falkirk he would probably be a regular.

 

Re: Japanese Abroad 2009/10 [R]

If Koki played for Falkirk, I'm sure he'd be on everyones' jersey there.
If JLeague and SPL sides (excluding ones from Glasgow) were in the same league, I think the SPL sides would get thrashed.
Staebek didn't get thrashed 5-1 *at home* in a European qualifier either.

Koki just needs to find a team -- I'd really like it to be in Netherlands, but I'll settle for JLeague at this point. His outing against ManCity looked terrible -- but one also has to wonder wtf they have him doing there. Why is he on the left ?? And why does it seem like they're only trying to use him like a Yanagisawa-esque forward/winger (slip behind defenders beating the trap with no support in sight) ?? The one good thing from that video was his work rate. He was tracking back (even if clumsily so) and outpacing ManCitys' fullback.

I noticed there are starting to be some rumors about Honda to Celtic now too. Nothing in papers (that I've seen), but several message boards have brought him up. The irony is that ... had Keisuke gone to Celtic when Koki did... he'd almost certainly be in the same situation as Mizuno right now.

I guess this is a reinforcement of the Ina - Arsenal lesson. Don't go to a "big team" until you've already established yourself as more than "potential for the future".
Teams facing relegation/promotion continue to be the best options for young JLeague players interested in Europe.

 

Re: Japanese Abroad 2009/10 [R]

I agree.

Div2 experience isn't bad either if a player sees consistant playing time. All the more so if your team gets promoted. Both Matsui and Honda have stated in interviews that their experience of being apart of a successful Div2 campaign (ie: promotion to Div1) has been invaluable to their development.

To get results a player needs playing time. To get playing time a player needs results. To get this cycle started, a player needs to be given the opportunity. Teams in the promotion/relegation zone seem to offer this (opportunity) the most, because they are willing to take that chance.

 

Re: Dutch Honda watch

For Honda, I agree season will get tougher with each game where he plays like that. For Venlo though, it would be interesting to see if they introduce somebody who can give them options in the attack with Honda binding 2, 3 opponents, providing the other player the space. Right now they still have the surprise-effect on their side, but with a few more games like that, I believe that would be the only chance for them to survive. Eventually, Honda will have a game where he does not score...

What a stunner of a goal though!

 

Re: Dutch Honda watch

Venlos' attack actually looks pretty decent to me. Calabro and Ahahaoui have looked lively. Without Honda I think they could still score a decent amount of goals.
But their defense is terrible, goals just flying by... and every possession seemed like a bombscare when I watched them yesterday. PSV scored at 2m, ADO at 8m, and I think FC Utrecht took 12m.

 

Re: Japanese Abroad 2009/10 [R]

There seems to be some disillusion about J-players currently in Europe, and I agree that some displays were rather disappointing... Whereas I am starting to lose faith in some players mentioned (Ina's confidence may have reached a new low point, Ono - will he be given a new chance at all with an extended run in Bochum's first team?), I still think that the momentary state is not bad. A few points may have to be considered.

Naturally, there is a bunch of players who are still new to the team and it would be daring to expect them doing well right from the start. Also, Honda's displays, for our - the critical J-player watcher's - view have so far introduced a standard which no other player will probably match. Put it into perspective of all the top-league players in the last 10 years, and he is the only one of the post-golden-generation with such an impact. Perhaps, his importance to Venlo is of such that people (including me) are already starting to worry if that is good or rather harming the player's progress. Well, that would be a concern followers of other nations outside the top football countries would love to have about their players in Europe.

In my opinion, if you just focus on the top leagues (so not Honda's MVP-season), the last few seasons may have been rather uneventful, with the exception of Naka at Celtic maybe. Other than him, it is probably Morimoto has given us hope towards the end of last Serie A-campaign. I will not be starting to predict a goals-target for him, the most important thing is that he keeps playing, scoring on one or the other occasion in the course, and learning to play effectively, learning to use his physical strength in an environment like the Serie A, etc. He is young so if he already captured a regular spot under the new coach, that is a fine accomplishment and it can only go upwards from there. Other than that, it's difficult yet to say if Naka at Espanyol will be repeating his success, but we will see.

Right now, I don't know if there are statistics but with probably the Brazilians and other South Americans leading the numbers of players outside their domestic leagues, I see more Japanese players playing in Europe's various leagues than most other non-EU-players. Unlike players (I don't mean the star players) from South America, their motive is not to offer their services to escape poverty, they are most of the times here for footballing reasons. I see even similarities to the Meiji-period when there was a huge exodus of Japanese learning their craft abroad. Of course it is a different thing if you are going to study engineering and a generation after Japan is capable of producing state-of-the-art machines, but there seems to be something in the mentality to take fate into his own hands and just go challenge and learn. Japanese football will benefit from these tendencies nonetheless in the long run.

I see only the Japanese media's search for stars and glamor damaging these tendencies by pushing prospects too fast to an unhealthy direction, or not rewarding rather "small" achievements like the aforementioned free-scoring forward in Hungary with some attention. Such focus on only the big success stories tend also to make young talents choose their careers unwisely.

For me though, Ina is not the player with the most dubious career decisions. I believe whichever club he 'left', it was not because he was wanting away, it was because his contract was not extended. At least it was like that in Frankfurt... also, when Wenger signed him, I don't think that anybody would have told him to stay at Gamba or go to Perugia (Ok, I don't remember exactly, but was there not talk about Perugia wanting a Japanese player no matter who it was, with their president or his son staying in Japan the whole summer telling the press they are interested in this and that player, and all of them did not want to be a 'commercial' signing?). Anyway, the player I am mostly doubting his ambitions is Sho Ito at Grenoble Foot. Once labeled the "Japanese Thierry Henry", he played 3 times over the last 3 seasons (in 2nd division), and he declined a loan-move to another 2nd division club... I simply do not understand that a player at his age, with the security of being at a Japanese-led club, does not take the chance to play regularly, when there are players from Japan begging to be signed.

Anyway, regarding Koki, is there not a chance for a loan move?

 

Re: Dutch Honda watch

Uh, ok. Is it like the defense is completely overwhelmed and just not capable of dealing with the attackers or do you think it is something they can adjust to?

 

Re: Dutch Honda watch

I only watched the one full game, but it looked to me like they were just out of their league.

 

Re: Dutch Honda watch

Honda featured on imscouting.com's "player to watch"

http://www.imscouting.com/player_to_watch.aspx?id=j9yfNytNiqpUlkKuTWlTVw||&name=Keisuke+Honda

 

Re: Japanese Abroad 2009/10 [R]

Just watched Ina's clip of the 2nd match away to Nice. He had some decent interceptions, but regarding positioning / passing he clearly needs some time to gel with his teammates. Judging from this his performance don't think he was totally bad. And... I dont know what the French ref standard for yellow card is, but these 2 challenges wouldn't have got him 2 yellows in Germany, maybe one.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnkTKymdVb8"]YouTube - Junichi Inamoto second match[/ame]

 

Re: Dutch Honda watch

FC Utrecht - VVV 2 - 2
Telegraaf-----------: 7
Voetbal International: 8

Remarks: Honda makes it into the Voetbal International Star team of the week for the 3d time in a row.

I really am getting suspicious.

 

Re: Dutch Honda watch

Seems like PSV is the only available option left and they probably don't have the money either. The transfer saga is still ongoing, so it wouldn't surprise me if he did somehow end up there.

I'm starting to get a bit nervous about his development at VVV though. Now obviously he is their star player and can pretty much do whatever he wants there as the team is tuned into him and his qualities. BUt ever since the PSV match he's been getting shackled by a player from the opposite team and sure all he needs is one shot or a little bit of space for an action, but it's going to be well "annoying" if this were to happen every single match.

All the attention goes out to him, off and on the pitch. If he were to stay at VVV, hopefully another player will step into the spotlight and take some pressure off of him.

 

Re: Dutch Honda watch

That would be brilliant! Possibly the best solution for both Honda and VVV right now.

 

Re: Dutch Honda watch

I think Ajax is still on the waiting list, and they do have the money to acquire Honda

IMO PSV is not a good option for Honda as they already has Dzsudzsak who is functioning pretty much the same as Honda does.

 

Re: Dutch Honda watch

Well, that's the latest news - Ajax pulling out after some careful discussions about Honda's price tag as they don't seem to be planning on mindlessly throwing money around anymore like they did when van Basten was at the helm. Ajax needs to sell a bunch of players to justify a potential Honda move, they already bought de Zeeuw for around 6 million euros and have a million midfield players. PSV is in a similar position as they bought Engelaar and can't really bench him and Afellay is still in Eindhoven despite all the Arsenal rumours. Apparently PSV are after Sandro Wagner now.

All the transfer news doesn't really have to mean anything, I mean he could just as easily sign with Ajax in the next week or so and I wouldn't be surprised. But I'd rather see him at PSV for personal reasons (read: bias), even though I haven't enjoyed any recent PSV games outside of the Ajax thrashings.

 

Re: Dutch Honda watch

If Feyenoord with some luck can sell their top talent De Guzman (last season Manchester City wanted to pay 14 million €€ for him but Feyenoord managed to let the sale fall in the bin) as he walks out of the gate transfer free after this season (so probably no 14 mill this time) and they can get the investors to put the money back into Honda than this can be an option (that I would like very much), but VVV has to retreat on the asking price.

So this will be a nervous time for Feyenoord untill the end of the transfer window in december when it is the last opportunity to sell De Guzman.

 

Re: Japanese Abroad 2009/10 [R]

Stabaek beaten 0-3 at home to Valencia in Europe League qualifiers.

 

Re: Dutch Honda watch

Honda score another goal again, but the result is 2-2 again.

 

Re: Japanese Abroad 2009/10 [R]

Norikazu Murakami to join Platinum Stars FC of South Africa.

http://goal.com/en/news/1659/south-...rs-striker-norikazu-murakami-gets-work-permit

 

Re: Japanese Abroad 2009/10 [R]

Honda's goal

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7gnGaWCJAc"]YouTube - Keisuke Honda scoort 1 - 0 ( VVV Venlo - FC Groningen )[/ame]

I wonder how long they can keep up this streak of ties...

 

Re: Japanese Abroad 2009/10 [R]

i don't believe this garbage - Honda to Inter?

 

Re: Japanese Abroad 2009/10 [R]

http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/clubfootball/news/newsid=1093354.html?cid=rssfeed&att=

This might shed some light on that as well. Mourinho openly stating he is after Sneijder.
So I would guess that report is either papertalk (most likely) or they're sounding out Honda as an option because Sneijder hasn't come yet.
I think I've seen enough of Japanese players in Serie A to be apprehensive, but I hope he succeeds in whatever he choses.