PBP: J9 - La Liga 18/19 | FC Barcelona v Sevilla FC | 20 October 2018 [R]

Discussion in 'Barcelona' started by Viscaelbarca, Oct 16, 2018.

  1. Fezza

    Fezza Member

    Barcelona
    Argentina
    Nov 16, 2017
    Possession in isolation means absolutely nothing. Madrid, for example, have high possession percentages but had failed to score. Against Valencia, Barcelona had 75% possession had a xG of 0.37.

    He shouldn't have been appointed in the first place. There are others... Sarri, Tuchel, Nagelsman, Setien, Martinez, Henry, Conte, Heynckes, Unzue whom are all way more progressive than him.

    I don't know what they were thinking when they employed this guy. He's pragmatic by nature.
     
  2. Fezza

    Fezza Member

    Barcelona
    Argentina
    Nov 16, 2017
    You're acting like it's either or... Both can and have been done by Barcelona coaches in the past.

    So you're fine with principles that have been developed and honed for other 30 years just to be tossed aside because a manager knows no better. I can't stand for that.

    What does this have to do with football?

    So do other clubs. People get things wrong all the time... The problem is persisting with the same error.

    That's because I have been watching Barcelona longer than some on this board have been alive. I think I know what I'm talking about when it comes to the type of football that has traditionally been played by Barcelona and the turd on a stick football Valverde puts out week in and week out.
     
  3. unclesox

    unclesox BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 8, 2003
    209, California
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    You've already established that you don't want Valverde as coach. That issue is done so no need to beat a dead horse.

    I'll ask my question again: Who would YOU like to see take over as coach?
    You listed quite a few names but which one tops your list that you would like the club to go after first?
     
  4. Fezza

    Fezza Member

    Barcelona
    Argentina
    Nov 16, 2017
    Any of Tuchel, Sarri and Setien. In that order.

    They all play JdP systems and are good at developing players.

    At this moment though only Setien looks a realistic option.
     
  5. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    I was responding to your point about Barca not focusing enough on maintaining possession.

    In any case, surely possession stats (while meaningless if you don't win the game) are linked to style-of-play.

    You have to decide what you're arguing about: results or style-of-play.
     
  6. Ozora

    Ozora Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Aug 5, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea LFC
    so you better wish club will win nothing this season
     
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  7. Ozora

    Ozora Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Aug 5, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea LFC
    people want both. maybe under pep and lucho we could do it but given how club is now, be realistic
     
  8. Fezza

    Fezza Member

    Barcelona
    Argentina
    Nov 16, 2017
    My point regarding possession is Valverde giving up control of games to sit on a lead instead of using possession as tool to defend. Defending WITH the ball is thing... His substituting Arthur was just that. Giving up control for the wrong player. If you’re going to do that sort of thing then you had best use Vidal in that situation because he is exceptional at breaking up play. I don’t think this needs to be explained...

    I don’t have to decide because they’re not mutually exclusive you can have both.
     
  9. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Actually bringing in Roberto for Arthur is bringing in a Masia player that's supposed to be more possession oriented than defensive.
     
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  10. Rana catesbeiana

    Mar 11, 2008
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    I don't think it's what's happening right now.

    As to our whole dialogue, I see our views differ so much that maybe we just agree to disagree. :cool:
     
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  11. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    Right, that's what you were arguing which is why I replied with the example of Barca having over 60% possession against Spurs while leading for 88 minutes in that match. To which you replied that possession is absolutely meaningless.
     
  12. Fezza

    Fezza Member

    Barcelona
    Argentina
    Nov 16, 2017
    No. Roberto could at best be described as a type of box to box midfielder without the tackling ability. He is not an organiser nor an orchestrator.

    Jack of all trades but a master of none in my opinion.

    Has exceptional positional sense when played as a DM though.
     
  13. Fezza

    Fezza Member

    Barcelona
    Argentina
    Nov 16, 2017
    It’s fine that we disagree but I mean it’s clear for the world to see that Valverde uses none of the fundamentals that have made Barcelona the club it is today. None!

    No positional play, he is happy to give up control, coordinated pressing has been abandoned in favour of defensive shape (this is forgoing an attacking opportunity too).

    He thinks purely in terms of defense/attack and the transitions built on it. That’s why Rakitic is such a key player for him and the likes of Dembélé, Malcom, Denis, Rafinha, Aleñá and Samper (ball playing types) are after thoughts. It’s also why Gomes and Paulinho were among his favourites.

    Valverde would be as lost as a fart in a perfume factory without Rakitic.
     
  14. Forzabarca

    Forzabarca Guest

    #163 Forzabarca, Oct 22, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 22, 2018
    EV is a useless coach. Having faith and playing Craperto instead of Vidal shows he's biased and partial. Craperto is nowhere near Vidal yet he get to play right after coming back from injury. EV has and is ruining talent, strength and the team. Not even mentioning Malcom. I don't get his philosophy, no one does. He's creating distress in the team by playing weaker players just cause he's fond of them personally.
     
  15. Rana catesbeiana

    Mar 11, 2008
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Let's agree to disagree.

    (Not that I mind debating with people I disagree with me. But I feel like we're debating million things at the same time and the dialogue just becomes this mess. If you want a one, simple, clearly defined topic/question of your choice, I'm cool continuing if you want)
     
  16. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Dembele and Malcom are not really ball retention types of players. :confused:

    Dembele for example would thrive in a counter attacking team.
     
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  17. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Right, he just keeps possession when playing as a mid. But he is a Masia player who keeps getting playing time. Perhaps Alena is just not that good. Perhaps La Masia is dry of talent coming through right now. Xavis, Iniestas, and Messis don't grow on trees.
     
  18. Fezza

    Fezza Member

    Barcelona
    Argentina
    Nov 16, 2017
    What are you talking about? Forwards lose the ball... And they lose it often.

    As an example. Suarez was responsible for 15 turnovers against Sevilla.

    What I’m talking about are players that play and are better with the ball at their feet. That is not Rakitic... His major contributions come when not in possession.
     
  19. Fezza

    Fezza Member

    Barcelona
    Argentina
    Nov 16, 2017
    So why promote him? Why not sell him off like the others failures?
     
  20. unclesox

    unclesox BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 8, 2003
    209, California
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Barca won two trophies last season which included the longest unbeaten run in La Liga history.
    I'll take winning ugly over trophyless seasons of champagne futbol any time, every time, all the time.
    Winning is what makes me smile. If beautiful play comes with it, that's fine. But beautiful play without results does nothing for me nor does it do anything for the club in the standings.
     
  21. ilovefotball

    ilovefotball Member

    Feb 11, 2006
    europe
    For me, it’s not just between winning and/or playing beautiful. Winning ugly is good as long as the team has control over the game. The control might be due to possession or Atletico type defending. Both these things show that we have a plan and we are not fluking our way to the titles/wins.

    There is not such thing in EV’s team at all. This was true last season and still true this year. We don’t defend well, attack well or keep possession well. All through last season, while watching the games, I always felt that we were a disaster waiting to happen. If not Roma, we would have received a thrashing from another team in CL at the later stage. In the league as well, there were many games where we were saved by own goals, opponents hitting the woodwork a lot and so on. Especially the first part of the season, we were extremly lucky to avoid defeats. So now that luck seems to have been faded but we are playing the same football. No plan,no tactics, same weird substitutions and team selection.

    That night at Rome, our biggest mistake was to wait too long for a substitution. This is still the issue this season as well. I don’t see any improvements from EV that gives me confidence. He is continuing on his same old methods and same methods won’t give different results.

    If we continue on this path, which surprisingly many here seems to have no problem with, we will get another Rome result in the CL and this time we might not even have the Liga title as well. It is so disappointing to see EV on touchline this season where Messi looks super motivated to win the CL. This can be another wasted opportunity.
     
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  22. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Well, I don't see Dembele working well in the possession system you're talking about.

    And if you want high press, Messi isn't going to press much, and you'd run Suarez and Busquets to the ground. And Pique is slower in the open field.

    Not only that, but many teams have figured out ways to beat the all out possession / high press tactic.
     
  23. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    Maybe because the results improved soon after EV came aboard? OR because there aren't really any better options atm?

    You say "this time we might not even have the Liga" as if winning La Liga is a piece of cake. Its arguably more difficult to win than CL. Beating Roma was not the biggest challenge Barca faced last season. Yeah, they messed it up big-time and maybe screwing up so badly in an important match is some justification for firing EV. It's a bit of a Madridista-type view to take on things though.
     
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