so you calling me a liar ? he DID say it , it was on BeIn Sports 3HD after the game , and you defending all the time regardless of the shit he say or does makes you look like an idiot , if you don't want to criticize him then fine but don't insult others who do
No, I'm not calling you a liar. I just said he didn't say what you reported. If you can provide a clip to prove your claim, I can believe you. FWIW, if you have a problem with insults, maybe it's for the best that you don't call other people idiots. I never called you anything, mind you.
He didn't call you an idiot, he said it makes you look like an idiot [emoji12] Here is the post game interview I think. 🎙 | #BarçaSevilla | Valverde's post match interview:Valverde: "We are waiting for the report of the tests and as soon as it is revealed we will announce it." pic.twitter.com/QYmUaz8eQS— BarçaTimes (@BarcaTimes) October 20, 2018
Well, if we get that semantic, I can say, um, I didn't say he called me an idiot, just that it's maybe for the best not to call people idiots. Anyway, whatever lol. There's an English translation (with no original text on offer) in the link, indeed of the post-match interview... ...and he doesn't say Munir is better than Malcom, like was obviously to be expected. FWIW, when a coach chooses a player to play, and another to sit on the bench, it doesn't mean that the coach thinks the playing player is "better". Same with players who are on the bench and not-included in the squad. There's of course correlation between playing time and what the coach thinks of you, but it's another thing.
I’d be very surprised if he said it. Valverde had typically been very political and avoids controversy . I am surprised it’s not an actual story that it’s something he said.
according to that account, here's what he actually said: Malcom? Valverde: "A player in the ranks of Barça. I am the coach and I will decide who will play or is called up. Malcom plays in the position of Dembele and Munir, so one has to be out of the list."
It was an Interview with BeIn Sports after the game where they were still on the pitch ( they interviewed a couple of players before him ) it wasn't on the press conference after the game where the reporters asked him Q's so if i don't record the damn thing and post it here then it didn't happen ? what kind of retarded logic is that if that's the case then where is your proof of him not saying it ? seriously i think even if i recorded the interview and posted it here you would say what Celito said before when i posted what he said in the Valencia interview Arguing with you people is impossible .... heck i think if Valverde came out tomorrow and said Hitler did nothing wrong you and your gang will come and defend him somehow
Would you not agree that seems very unlike something Valverde would say ? That's common knowledge that players and coaches say one thing in public and something else privately. Example, Pep would probably downplay in conferences if asked about setting the EPL point record. If you watch the Man City special, he looked obsessed with it in the locker room.
That's not correct. Coach's valuation of a player's level is not the only thing that dictates which players play, sit or are not called. This is elementary stuff. But for one simple example of this, rotations happen. You recording or not doesn't change history, but when you claim that someone acted totally-out-of-character and can't give any proof, it's kinda hard to believe it. Sure, I don't have proof that he didn't say it, but I also don't have proof that Messi wasn't totally drunk when he played. FWIW, I don't think anyone is thinking Valverde can't be criticized. I, for example, think he has many weaknesses. But just going on and on about how everything he does is total **** is kinda tiresome. Not to mention the priority of his job is to see that the team is successful, and last season - which was his first - we won Double. This year, we're leading our CL group and Liga. Yeah we're not perfect with him I know.
That's because he has no clue on how to manage a team like Barcelona. His use of the squad leaves a lot to be desired and his way of playing is far removed from anything that is Barcelona it's not even funny. No Barcelona fan should be happy with that! Regarding his job priority... You seem to think it's only about success but it's not. Success, like last season, papers over cracks. Barcelona have a culture of development players and specific type of attacking football but yet this manager is given a pass for not using Masia talents as well as conceding possession when teams actually come to play. It's almost as if the fans have forgotten that we once played beautiful football. Just look at his substitution of Arthur against Sevilla. Why was he removed from the game when the problem in midfield was very obviously Rakitic? Why was Roberto the substitute when Vidal is the player with the necessary skill set to shut out the game? This coach is in waaaaaayyyyyyyy over his head and is been given a pass due to some individual brilliance from a specific list of players. We can't go on like this. The bough will break.
No, I have never said it's "only about success". Priority means the most important thing, not the only thing that matters. As for Masia and possession-style, these issues have been talked about many times before, but shortly: I agree that in theory, more emphasis on Masia would be good. But if the Masia players don't deliver, you can't rely on them just because they're from Masia. This is competitive sport at the very top level. When it comes to possession-style, it's not like Barca has always played in one exact way before, and now Valverde is doing something completely different. Here is a list of our coaches, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_FC_Barcelona_managers: we played differently under all of them, and that's no surprise. Barca squads change, and we want to be one step ahead of opponent scouting, as opposed to grind the same exact style decade after decade. Nah, fans haven't forgotten. I think it's more a question of some people only being happy if our full matches look like Pep-era highlight reels. There's A LOT of beauty in our game today, to me at least. But opinions are opinions. Million reasons dictate how one makes subs, but I'd just say one thing. You wanted Vidal on the pitch to "shut out the game". Just before you had said that beautiful football is so important, and results aren't everything. Why would you want to shut down, if you want beauty?
It's really not the most important thing because once the results start tapering off then you have what exactly? Nothing. I didn't imply that Masia players must be played for the sake of it but the special talents need to be given first team minutes to hone their skills at higher levels and that means them making match squads and being used as substitutes when games have already been won. I will make an example here... By the time Iniesta was promoted to the first team he had already featured in nearly 20 La Liga games for a total of nearly 1000 minutes. Alena conversely, has featured in 3 La Liga matches, all under Lucho, for the magnificent total of +/- 40 minutes. He will now be expected to perform immediately under Valverde or face a heavy axe. I've been watching Barcelona play for a very long time and I can unequivocally state that apart from a period in the early 2000's Barcelona's game was always built on the same premise using different systems. van Gaal for example used a 3-5-2. Valverde has taken our fundamentals and tossed it in favour of an attack/defense mentality and individual brilliance. He doesn't think ball and possession and let the ball create spaces he thinks attack/defense, shape (not to be confused with positional play), transitions and which players offer him more out of possession (Rakitic, Suarez). Beautiful football doesn't mean 90 minutes of champagne football every game. It means imposing your game on the opposition and choking the life out of them. I don't know how you've managed to mix up what I've said. So there are million reasons how one makes subs... This is a cop out. Give me just one good reason why our best midfielder was replaced while the weakest kept on the field. I know Valverde reasons for it but it resulted in even less midfield control which meant we ended up conceding chances at a rate of knots after Arthur came off. Regarding shutting out the game. That's not what I want. That's how Valverde plays games and using Roberto instead of Vidal and taken off the wrong player meant it was a failed substitution all round and another indictment on his abilities and suitability for the job.
But that's just another way of saying that results matter a lot. When they go away - "you have nothing". Again, I'm not saying results are everything. But football is not art, it's a sport. And for the record also, I'm not saying Barca has nothing if it doesn't have results. And I'm also not saying that one should focus completely on the short-term results over creating and maintaining culture and actions that support long-term success. In general, I agree that it's a good policy to hone Masia players to the first team with enough patience. But I also understand that the first team is such a competitive place that there just isn't always minutes to spend on patient growing of players. It depends. Nearly 1000 minutes isn't really THAT much, and Iniesta wasn't your normal Masia kid. Part of the problem, to me, is the short-terms of coaches. Basically, a coach would have a bigger motivation to promote and grow players, if he felt like he might be coaching for more than a season (or two). This happens by organizational support, but also by fan support. It's a big reason, but far from the only one, why I support Valverde. I think you overestimate the homogenuity of styles before Valverde, and underestimate the "traditional Barca" aspects of today's Barca. But either way, I think it's good that the coach has freedom, as opposed to being just a dude in a suit, showing the team a video of Cruyff Style 101, picking the line-up, and pick his check. Beautiful football isn't a set-in-stone concept. No, it's not a cop-out, it's just reality. But if you want one reason, Arthur was subbed out after we had taken a 3-0 lead and we have a midweek match coming up. So the reason can be thought to have been that he wanted to save his legs for the CL match, and the good lead helped making that move. I don't know if he thought like that, but that's one reason. And it's not the only one. Let's just agree to disagree on how good the sub was.
Nope. It's a way of saying that there is no clear identity. Barcelona decided a looooooong time ago that it was going to play football a certain way. Under Valverde that has been lost. It is plenty for a kid alternating between the First and B team and who at the time wasn't even 20 years old. This has always been part of Barcelona's culture and minutes MUST be dedicated to exactly this. Do you know how many Liga minutes Valverde has given to La Masia? I will tell you... 5 minutes in nearly a season and a half and those 5 minutes were a time wasting exercise. You don't see the problem here? The reason I bring this up is because Iniesta was primed to be successful whereas Alena wasn't. I mean 340 minutes in all First Team competitions is a drop in the ocean. What are his chances of success now when he has been promoted without the requisite experience. That type of handling is the height of stupidity. It has very little to do with the term of the coaches but rather the mentality. Guys like Valverde, unlike Guardiola, Rijkaard, van Gaal, Cruyff, don't know the value of such a system and culture because they haven't been through such a system or haven't been in charge of one. I actually don't because no one manager is going to play exactly like the one before or after but the style was built on the same fundamentals. Cruyff, van Gaal, Rijkaard, Guardiola (took it to the extreme), Villanova all placed emphasis on position during build up with the ball being the tool. The ball was circulated at pace too in order to create spaces but what we have under Valverde is a complete abandoning of the positional game (lets not forget that this is the same manager that a few weeks said that positional play [JdP] is only for the training ground) coupled with laborious circulation of the football. His comment on JdP actually left me flabbergasted. This is the mentality of the guy... Exactly This explanation makes no sense because if there is any truth to it then it would have been Rakitic that was subbed. He has the most wear and tear of our midfielders. It was just a stupid tactical decision by Valverde based on Rakitic's ability off the ball and Roberto's ability to run during transition which nearly backfired had it not been for ter Stegen. This is elementary stuff.
Ok we interpret it differently. Either way, perhaps we agree that results are important but not everything. My point was that Valverde's priority is to get results. I'm not so sure about that. I mean yes I know the idea of Masia teams playing in a certain way so the first team would benefit, but the club also has changing youth coaches (which emphasize things differently), sports directors, squads are different, opponent react to us differently, coaches have some amount of tactical freedom, and so on. It's definitely not like everyone kept a clearly defined Barca style together, and then Valverde came and threw it out. I'm not saying it isn't enough for a kid like that, I'm saying there wasn't crazy patience for non-delivering Masia players before. I do agree, though, that I'd like to see Valverde give Masia players more chances, Alena being a good example. I'dd add though, that he has all the chances in the world to see Masia players in training sessions and Barca B matches, analyze the data, and so I sort of give him the benefit of doubt, in a sense that he is in a way better position than we here to make calls who plays, and it's not like Alena is in the freezer when he doesn't play in first team matches. I don't know. I'm sure if a real person in the real world is hired to be the coach of Barca, he knows a lot about the values and culture of the club. Not to mention it's a well-established phenomenon that short-termism - in football coaching, but in other fields as well - pushes bosses to prefer certain types (immediate level over potential) whereas long-termism leans towards honing talent, growing youth players. Maybe you have misunderstood something. I mean it obviously matters a lot to today's Barca where players are in relation to their job, to what happens, to empty/filled spaces, opponents etc etc. Whether Valverde/media brands it as position-heavy is another matter. I spesifically said that I don't know Valverde thinks with that sub, my point was that there are many possible reasons for substitutions other than who is the best player in Valverde's opinion. Nah, reasons for subs are not elementary stuff. They're complex issues. If you'd coach a team, and try to get a team through a season successfully, and someone would ask you why made a certain sub, you could of course give a short answer such as "X looked tired, so I subbed in Z, who...", but in reality, you could go for far longer explaining and analyzing why such a sub was made, why just then, why it was the move to improve the team (as opposed to making tactical/mental changes), how it links to tactical alterations, how have the training sessions gone earlier, what's the plan in the next match, what type of opponents there are etc etc etc.
Come on man, you watch the games. Valverde's style is so removed from the ball that Barcelona traditionally play. We play like Bilbao now. I don't know if you're deliberately trying to ignore what I was saying or it is by mistake but this has nothing to do with patience. The Barcelona hopefuls from Masia were always given opportunities in the First team. I will again use Alena here and 2 others. O Busquets and Puig... This is the time to include them in the 18 man squads and giving them run outs once games have basically been decided. Like at the end of last season when the league had already been won and the final Champions League group games etc. Against Huesca a few weeks ago as an example... It was 6-2 by minute 60 and was the perfect time to introduce a Masia hopeful for the final 30 minutes. My point regarding Alena is such that he wasn't given this type of opportunity by Valverde but was promoted nonetheless, probably to save face, and then ignored. He will now once again be playing Copa matches against fodder and this will be used as a barometer when in does nothing for his progress in the grand scheme of things. Yeah. So this is a coach thing... Tito Villanova was coach for nothing but a minute but yet he used Masia players more than Valverde. You can call it what you want... Short-termism, result orientated... Makes no difference. It still boils down to the same thing which is erosion of a culture. I think you need look up JdP. Valverde has no idea how to play it let alone coach it. You can see by the player body orientation on the pitch. You're jumping through hoops. He gave up whatever control he had in midfield by making that substitution. It should not have happened. You're looking for excuses for this man. This is really scraping the barrel if I'm going to be honest. This coach has shown on numerous occasions that he has no clue as to how to use his squad effectively.
Its not like they're playing like Man Utd or Burnley. Yeah, no champagne football like in some previous eras, but they still get more possession than their opponents. 61% against Spurs if we take their last CL match as an example. Also the shaky play that often comes when Barca is "protecting" a 2 or 3 goal lead is nothing new. It was actually a bigger problem 5 years ago.
Lots of pointing fingers at Valverde, which is fine. But you offer no solution. Who would you like to see take over as coach?
Agree to disagree. It is about long-term. The long-termness is the key to promoting kids in the first place, otherwise we could just fill the team with players who are 27. I'd also make the case getting 20mins in Liga, in already decided matches isn't the only thing that measures how a kid is integrated to the team. Cup matches often have good quality opponents and real stakes, and of course training daily with the team matters. What's the point we're arguing here even? I agree more chances to kids is good. In that sense, short-termism is bad. Short-termism has been part of top level coaching (in Barcelona and elsewhere) for a long time, result-oriented measuring of their level too. I'm not defending it, but it's hardly a revelation that a sort of "win or get out" thinking exists. I don't think there is erosion of culture, I think things come and go, because of many reasons. There have and will be times when there are more Masia players in the first team and less players, there have and will be times when we play more similar to Pep-era and less similar. Do you know how YouTube is packed with top level chefs demonstrating how they cook a dish? And how the comment section is always filled with people (non-professionals) who mock and laugh at the execution? Barcelona has professionals evaluating different coach options when they hire a new coach. They can consult all kinds of people, analyze all kinds of data. After a hiring, they can fire him any second they want. They can consult the players. All the world's options, and they chose Valverde. They continue with him. He starts with a multi-title season, and is currently leading La Liga. And you find a way to come to the conclusion that he has no clue. I reckon you should start coaching an amateur team yourself, and maybe your view of Valverde would change.