Has anyone got J. League revenues? http://www.stadiumzone.weebly.com has some J. League revenues included, but not all. I didn't know baseball is that huge in Japan by the way.
Re: J. League revenues TV viewers going up constantly for soccer (+20,000 last and this, and another +20,000 this year); going down for baseball. -- Source: SkyPa Number of kids playing soccer going up, playing baseball going down, this was on TV a few months ago. The Nadeshiko now have given a HUGE push for soccer. It is just a matter of time.
Re: J. League revenues 2009 J1&J2 details (Japanese) http://www.j-league.or.jp/aboutj/document/jclub/2009-10/pdf/club2010.pdf from my closed website J1 = J. league div 1 J2 = J. league div 2 NPB = baseball league
Re: J. League revenues usually, japanese media coverage of NPB, the domestic baseball league overwhelms the ones on anything about soccer. but times like Japan NT matches or J. league's season closing months, media focuses on soccer. as saku said, J-league is still far behind NPB in terms of attendance figure (and player salaries).
Re: J. League revenues Just wait for the 2012 stats, you'll see how soccer is already doing much better. Baseball is an old guys' sport. It might take a few decades, but soccer will surpass it. Among young people it has surpassed it already. One example: in my high school both teams are very good, prefectural finalists, but the soccer boys are WAY MORE popular than the baseball players among girls. When students were forced to go watch the baseball final, there was a micro-revolution, with many students saying: why were we not forced to go to the soccer final? Many supported the other team and pretended to chant... At JHS level, last year the soccer club has surpassed the baseball club. The quasi-military atmosphere in the baseball clubs is dreaded by more kids, especially in cities. As said, just a matter of time...
Re: J. League revenues One more thing: famous Japanese soccer players are known in the whole world; famous baseball players in a couple of countries... Where do you want to be famous? In Fukuoka or in the world?
Re: J. League revenues Thanks for the insider information. Maybe by 2018 WC it will have already surpassed baseball? I think with Nadeshiko Japan being "Sekai Ichi" and if the men do really well in two second consecutive World Cups between 2010 and 2014, the popularity between the two sports will complete the shift for good.
Re: J. League revenues For me, Yakyu represents conservative Japan. Like Goru said, it's an old guys sport and represents closed-minded nature of some people in Japan. Just look at the baseball players that go to America as opposed to the Japanese footballers who go to Europe. The baseball players are individualistic and tend to be stubborn. They refuse to learn English despite living in the US for 10+ years (even Ichiro can barely speak conversational English). They never try and open up to other cultures. As opposed to footballers like Nakata. Who learn many foreign languages and try to integrate into new cultures. There's no feeling of superiority or sense of entitlement.
Re: J. League revenues You make it sound like a battle between the good and the evil. As someone who like both Yakyu and Football, I want to see these sports cohabiting. Japan's heritage is Yakyu so I hope they'll keep on cherishing it. What a sad world it would be if everybody had to love the same things.
Re: J. League revenues Well I don't like yakyu so I could care less if the league disbands tomorrow. The fact is that yakyu takes kids who could potentially play football instead. I don't want to force anyone to play football, but if yakyu didn't exist then imagine how high the level of football in Japan would be.
Re: J. League revenues I know there wouldn't be the two World Baseball Classics to showcase, these tons of greats moments and all the top notch Mitsuru Adachi's production. That's too much for me. We'll win a WC even with Yakyu in our way.
Re: J. League revenues Speaking of yakyu, is there any chance of shukyu coming back into use to replace sakka? I kinda prefer it myself, if only for my bias against calling football "soccer" The popular Japanese names for each sport does support SB2002's theory, though.
Re: J. League revenues The problem is, Japan is an old guys' country, and its population continues to age. I agree that the shift is inevitable and is just a matter of time, but this time will be long. The next big concern for football is the infrastructure. From what I know, baseball stadia are purpose-built and well maintained, and most of the stadiums used for football are horrible general-purpose track and field arenas that have no soul. I said it many times before and will say again: J. League desperately needs a SSS-transition movement akin to MLS.
Re: J. League revenues One thing to note regarding yakyu vs. soccer: there are 12 pro baseball teams in Japan and AFAIK there's always been 12, and all in major cities. Does anyone think baseball in Japan would be financially viable if they had a 30-team league like the MLB and teams in every city with more than a gas station and a 7-11? This. So much this. That said, I mean, Japan is an old country in the middle of a recession that looks to continue for several years. As much as I would love for the league to have 15 Nihondairas, 10 NACK5s/Fukuaris, 5 Mitsuzawas, and a few Saitama Stadiums/Kashima Stadium/Sapporo Domes thrown in, I know it's nearly impossible for teams to sell it to the cities when they're already having so much trouble bringing in supporters. As an example Kitakyushu's stadium is 'quaint' at best and the viewing angles are so low they might as well have supporters on the sideline, no digital scoreboard etc, but what do you expect at 900y for the ゴール裏 seats? And do you really think the locals are gonna pay a minimum of 2000y for tickets to a new stadium that gets used ~20 times a year? Another big problem with J.League is that all of the teams are owned by these... I don't know what you'd call them, trust corporations? But there's no oil barons or billionaire Americans or whatever to pour tons of money into the team. And because it's Japan there will never be a Mark Cuban-like figure who can purchase a team and revolutionize it.
Re: J. League revenues If Japan had won the right to host WC 2022, that could have meant more football specific stadiums being built.
Re: J. League revenues As a National from one of the "few" baseball countries, I have to pipe in on your last quote. Because of past history, America is still probably the dominant media importer in Japan and baseball is part of that. Your question should be more "In New York or the World?" If you make it in MLB like Ichiro did, you are among the best in the undisputed best league in the world. You make it at CSKA Moscow or Dortmund, you can't say that. Baseball people do the same thing when talking about soccer and I've never liked the bigotry on either side. I think golf is boring as hell, but I can appreciate someone being good at it. Not my thing but why should I get to dictate other people's tastes? There's enough kids to play both
Re: J. League revenues I agree the bigotry between the 2 fan groups are really bad Baseball fans calling football fans "Buta" Pigs for example. And Baseball fans called a bunch of people without Jobs. Baseball might fall in popularity compared to football over the years, but financially Baseball will always win because they can get revenue from so many matches played compared to football 60 vs. 17-19 Baseballs weak point is as I see it not that theyre followers are conservative but that there sponsorship/ ownership are concentrated on one company. Ownership on Baseball and big football clubs are very similar, but J-League Chairmen took a right decision in abolish the company names from the club names. An issue Korean fans of K-League often points out as being the problem of K-League never happened. This has enabled the strong point for football as having a stronger popularity on grassroot level. Its the My city's team feeling in football. The issue Football vs. Baseball is probably more Regions and Politicians VS Big Cities and Media. You can see a clear tendency that Football becoming linked more and more with Politicians, its simply easier to become popular among the grassroots supporting a Pro football club. On another note Many Politicians has realised that Japan needs to shift mentality from being a metropolitan to be more regional. Among those reasons are Tokyo is so big today that no families with kids can live there anymore and that all economy are too concentrated in Tokyo. In that sense J-League helps promoting this agenda, "move to Matsumoto its a nice city and have a great football club". However the problem with football atm. as I see it is the lack of good negotiaters telling media and sponsors what football is worth. First of all its a joke how small amount of money J-League gets from Japanese Broadcasters. Take a small country as Denmark with 5 million people. League Matches are usually attended by 8000 (half of J-league) and clubs get more than 4 million euro each every year. Thats more than J-League Clubs. Again Stadium sponsorships are much higher than in Japan here (and we are talking about clubs attracting a couple of thousand people). Again in sponsorship it seems that sponsorhips should come from the local area? huh why? In denmark you see sponsors change from a relegated club to a promoted club nothing with where the company comes from. Also I am worried that the Japanese clubs still not realised how important additional match day income is. Wheres the Skyboxes, Lounges, restaurants, Conference centers etc. on the newly built stadiums? I reckon that stadiums are owned by local governements but still in europe the local governements builds stadiums with these amenities.
Re: J. League revenues OK, I might have phrased badly, but my point is very simple: good football players are famous all over the world, good baseball/rugby/ice hockey/cricket/etc. players are famous in a few countries. I don't know the name of ANY famous American football or ice hockey players, for example, nor that of any American baseball player, let alone rugby. Nor does my mom. But she knows Honda. Honda is for example more famous than Ichiro, despite being stuck in Moscow, because he played in the FIFA World Cup, which is the biggest entertainment event in the world. So, football is clearly a wider stage, that's all I meant. With that said anybody can play the sport they prefer.
Re: J. League revenues Japanese clubs, or at least some of them, must disconnect from the business conglomerates that own them, and need to breed a class of, bright, open-minded and internationally minded sport management experts, who ideally must cooperate with people who know soccer well having experienced it in Japan and abroad. For god's sake, most J.League clubs in 2011 do NOT have a proficiently English speaker in their offices... My only consolation is that over the years, the poorly managed clubs will disappear, either because of financial troubles, or down in J3, or JFL or whatever... You can already see that another two or three bad seasons for the likes of Verdy, Yokohama FC, Sanga or Trinita could be lethal. So be it! As a last note, supporters must learn to inquire and care more about how their clubs are managed, and they need to complain when incompetent people are in charge.
Re: J. League revenues My mom doesn't know the names of any soccer players. I guess what you are saying is that CSKA Moscow is more famous than the New York Yankees. Which is laughable. The other things like Hockey and Rugby and American Football are niche sports. Baseball is a global sport....maybe it's not popular in Italy but it is a global sport. Soccer s not that popular in America but it's a global sport.
Re: J. League revenues Your mom doesn't know football players because I assume she lives in one of the few countries in the world where football is not the main sport -- at least for now. Of course some people do not know football players. But way more do not know baseball players. I never compared CSKA (not even mentioned in my last post!) with the Yankees, I have compared the FIFA World Cup (in which Honda played) to whichever other sport's tournament (in which -- insert name of Yankees player -- played). As a famous Japanese football player you get to be known in the world, as a famous Japanese baseball player, in part of it, mainly in Japan and in the US, perhaps in South America and East Asia. It is of course true that baseball, rugby and basketball are played in all continents, but of course they don't compare with football as popularity. What I mean is: is there a baseball's World Cup? How many people watch the final? 700 million? I doubt it. Baseball, by the way, is relatively popular in Italy, like any team sport. Italy and Holland are the two "powerhouses" for baseball in Europe, and have often played in the Olympics. There are of course also quite a few famous Italo-American baseball players.