Ivy league colleges: what's the difference with public state universities?

Discussion in 'Education and Academia' started by Belgian guy, May 2, 2006.

  1. Belgian guy

    Belgian guy Member+

    Club Brugge
    Belgium
    Aug 19, 2002
    Belgium
    Club:
    Club Brugge KV
    Hello.

    I'm a Euro, and I'm a bit puzzled by this. Maybe someone could clear this up for me: what exactly is the difference between the so called Ivy league uni's (and some other private uni's) and the public state universities in terms of acceptance and enrollment ?
     
  2. Anteaters FC

    Anteaters FC New Member

    Mar 28, 2004
    Santa Monica
    The big difference is cost. Tuition to a private university will be at least $20,000/year, while some are far above that. In contrast, state resident fees for a state university--even a very good one--is far less. For example, University of California in-state tuition is something like $7,000/year (though there is a higher non-resident fee).

    The Ivies are prestigious, while a state school might be looked down upon, because of easier admission standards, though there are exceptions. UC Berkeley and UCLA are very hard to get into--harder than USC, a California private university.

    In addition, not all state schools are research institutions, so they won't have masters or PhD programs.
     
  3. Belgian guy

    Belgian guy Member+

    Club Brugge
    Belgium
    Aug 19, 2002
    Belgium
    Club:
    Club Brugge KV
    Thanks, that clears it up a bit.
     
  4. needs

    needs Member

    Jan 16, 2003
    Brooklyn
    I'm trying to think of a flagship state school that's not a PhD granting institution and I can't come up with a single example. This is true of the secondary campuses, but not the first. Of the Ivies, does Dartmouth grant PhD's?
     
  5. Anteaters FC

    Anteaters FC New Member

    Mar 28, 2004
    Santa Monica
    I'm only really familiar with the California system, with the UCs, and the CSUs (Cal State Universities). In theory, the UCs are the leading schools, while the CSUs have more part-time students, relaxed admission standards, etc. But there are some CSUs that I think are just as good, if not better, than some UC campuses.
     
  6. ThreeApples

    ThreeApples Member+

    Jul 28, 1999
    Smurf Village
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The CSUs offer masters degrees but not doctorates.
     
  7. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Dartmouth offers a few Ph.D's, but not across the board, IIRC.

    As for state schools, I think Wyoming and Alaska are pretty sparse on the number of Ph.Ds one can pursue, but there are some at each place.
     
  8. EJDad

    EJDad New Member

    Aug 26, 2004
    To open a can of worms-I would add that the Ivy schools reputations often means that the students, at least by some measures (standardized test scores, HS Class Ranks and GPA's etc) are better prepared (I won't say smarter) and more engaged. You can find brilliant people at any school. You will find a higher percentage of them at these schools and a corespondingly lower percentage of kids just there for the party ( although these exist at every school too)
     
  9. quentinc

    quentinc New Member

    Jan 3, 2005
    Annapolis, MD
    While there are thousands of private schools in the US, there are only eight Ivy League institutions (Dartmouth, Yale, Harvard, Princeton, Penn, Brown, Columbia, and Cornell).

    The main difference is not the cost per se, but the fact that private institutions receive no public support through taxes, so the cost is invariably higher, for obvious reasons. But there is a difference between an in-state and out-of-state tuition, which is pretty marked in places such as California (there are numerous private schools that have a lower tuition than the 25k or so that I would pay at, say, UCLA).

    Private schools are also generally smaller and more focused on a specific set of majors. And generally speaking, it's more difficult to get into a private school than an average state school (some, such as Cal-Berkley, are very prestigous however), and the applications undergo a more rigorous screening process.
     
  10. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In a motel room in Delacroix
    I was drinking like a Dartmouth boy
    And thinking about the wrong turns that I took....
     
  11. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Still smarting about losing your drummer to that evangelical ska band, I see.
     
  12. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    YOU, SIR, have all the manners of a Yalie!

    :p
     
  13. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 22, 2001
    Don't drink beer but like cheese
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Any way you say it - smarter, more intelligent, better prepared, etc., is all subjective. There may be a larger percentage of students who scored higher (GPA, SAT/ACT, AP, etc.) in high school, but that does not mean they are better prepared. In fact, I am observing an AP class right now. There is one guy who is in band, yearbook, senior graduation, student government, and (from what the teacher has told me) is likely to pass highly AP Gov., AP English, and AP French. But he is unlikely to get financial offers to go anywhere other than U of Arizona (I'm in Tucson), which is very sad. I can't imagine that a majority of students at Ivys are better prepared than that. *shakes head in dissapointment*

    This is the key. The students can be absolutely brilliant, but they must be engaged and have the motivation to perform well. I know a guy who got his post doc at U of Arizona, and is now teaching at UPenn.

    Now that is comparing the Ivys with schools like ASU. :p
     
  14. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But the key phrase in your post is "financial offers" because surely you're not suggesting this kid isn't smart enough (or prepared enough...whatever that means) to attend an Ivy. And yes, the financial side is unfortunate.....but most Ivy's don't offer any sort of scholarship (themselves directly, at least), IIRC. So someone like your student has to make the decision whether to go to school for free at a very good state school or go into debt with financial aid in order to attend an Ivy. It sucks....but that choice is made all the time.
     
  15. Wingtips1

    Wingtips1 Member+

    May 3, 2004
    02116
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    well, most of the Ivies and other top institutions are all starting to offer tuition reduction/waive if they are on the lower end of the financial scale. don't know whether or not he is going to fit into that category.
     
  16. Wingtips1

    Wingtips1 Member+

    May 3, 2004
    02116
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    nothing wrong with that, hahah.
     
  17. Street Fighter

    Street Fighter New Member

    Jun 26, 2004
    Delaware Valley
    My son found the difference to be between Eating Clubs and a throaty Carill, and a committed Cornel, cliffside suicides, and the remoteness of Ithaca.

    He chose USAFA, harder to get into at the time than any Ivy. Yeah, that's all before the sex assaults, cheating, and other crap.
     
  18. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Twas a Simpson's reference.
     
  19. Pierre-Henri

    Pierre-Henri New Member

    Jun 7, 2004
    Strasbourg, France.
    Don't forget faculty fame. In my field (francophone literature), all the sparkling names, all the stars, bigwigs, honchos, godfathers, excellences, highnesses and other people you wouldn't even dare to contradict teach in private universities*.


    * Let's be fair : CUNY and Wisconsin-Madison aren't that bad either.
     
  20. needs

    needs Member

    Jan 16, 2003
    Brooklyn
    FYP


    (look closely) ;)
     
  21. christopher d

    christopher d New Member

    Jun 11, 2002
    Weehawken, NJ
    You had to go there, didn't you...?

    Dealt with appropriately.
     
  22. Anteaters FC

    Anteaters FC New Member

    Mar 28, 2004
    Santa Monica
    Hah hah--actually, I know that USC is improving. It's not a "backup" school either, so it could easily be someone's first choice. Just anecdotally, I've heard of people that got in there, but didn't get into Berkeley or UCLA.
     
  23. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 22, 2001
    Don't drink beer but like cheese
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Very true about the financial part. My point was that he is from a 25% Title 1school, but he can't get a scholarship anywhere. Yet he is as prepared as some of the top students who went to my HS (upper middle class), where at least 1 person went Ivy every year. The point I was making was that he is as prepared as the Ivy students, if not more.
     
  24. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 22, 2001
    Don't drink beer but like cheese
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't know either. But it seems strange that he was unable to get a scholarship to USC (as another student in the same class did).
     
  25. Pierre-Henri

    Pierre-Henri New Member

    Jun 7, 2004
    Strasbourg, France.
    hé hé . of course, "teach" was a metaphor. "Hanging around while looking important" is more accurate.
     

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