It's started (R)

Discussion in 'US Open Cup' started by monster, Dec 22, 2002.

  1. monster

    monster Member

    Oct 19, 1999
    Hanover, PA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  2. monster

    monster Member

    Oct 19, 1999
    Hanover, PA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  3. monster

    monster Member

    Oct 19, 1999
    Hanover, PA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  4. VioletCrown

    VioletCrown Member+

    FC Dallas
    United States
    Aug 30, 2000
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Cool! One of the four teams is Metrostars Black!

    But they're playing my long-time faves Vistula, so I hope they go DOWN!
     
  5. VioletCrown

    VioletCrown Member+

    FC Dallas
    United States
    Aug 30, 2000
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My turn:)

    In Massachusetts OC Quarterfinals:
    11/24/02
    Green Briar Rebels F.C. - Essex United : 2 - 0
    Hellas United - Watertown United : ? - ?
     
  6. VioletCrown

    VioletCrown Member+

    FC Dallas
    United States
    Aug 30, 2000
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Minnesota?

    As with last year, it may be that the 2002 Minnesota Cup winner (Inferno '95) goes into the 2003 Open Cup. On another page on the site, it says "The team crowned as the Minnesota Cup Champion is the state representative in a National Open Cup with other states."
     
  7. VioletCrown

    VioletCrown Member+

    FC Dallas
    United States
    Aug 30, 2000
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And that's all I could manage to turn up. Many associations don't play their games until March.
     
  8. monster

    monster Member

    Oct 19, 1999
    Hanover, PA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The problem, to me at least, seems to be that there is a US Open Cup which includes the pro teams and a National Open Cup which is for the USASA only.

    What is weird is there is a National Amateur Cup, which seems to be the same thing as the National Open Cup. Bizarre.
     
  9. VioletCrown

    VioletCrown Member+

    FC Dallas
    United States
    Aug 30, 2000
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Open Cup and the Amateur Cup are separate things.

    The National Open Cup and the US Open Cup are different endings to the same tournament. Because the pro teams were winning all the time, to get the USASA teams motivated to keep entering the USASA set up a different final for the USASA teams. That started just a few years ago. They have a national championship between the four regional winners. If I have all my facts straight, that's what the USASA teams are calling the National Open Cup.

    The Amateur Cup is just for the amateur teams. During the years when there were no pro entries into the Open Cup, I'm not sure what the difference was. But I do know that both cups have been held for a very long time. At this point there are quite a few more USASA teams entering the Amateur Cup than the Open Cup. Georgia, for example, has a pretty healthy qualifying tournament for the Amateur Cup.

    Hope that's clear. And I hope I know what I'm talking about:)

    ...And, now that I think about it, you're right. Setting up an amateur ending for the Open Cup is tatamount to making a second Amateur tournament. My bet is that it's a political thing. I don't know all the history, but I do know that, once the pro teams entered the Open Cup, a lot of amateur teams got really unhappy. I remember seeing a couple articles about it in some local newspapers. The Open Cup had been the highest prize for the amateurs for nearly a century, and now there was no way they'd win it anymore. So the USASA half gave it back to them with this USASA-only National Open Cup final.

    Confusing and weird, but that's soccer in the US.
     
  10. monster

    monster Member

    Oct 19, 1999
    Hanover, PA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think you're right now that I read through it. So some of it probably comes down to state associations pushing the Amateur Cup more than the Open Cup.

    I know this is taking us down a seperate path, but if I were in charge, I would set up some system where you get into both tournaments for one fee to encourage teams to play in the Open Cup.

    That and have all USASA state champs go into a round with PDL/D-3 teams.
     
  11. gorilla

    gorilla New Member

    Feb 13, 2002
    The competition has been suspended until spring, as it only started after the Amateur Cup was over, and snow has gotten in the way.
     
  12. VioletCrown

    VioletCrown Member+

    FC Dallas
    United States
    Aug 30, 2000
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thanks! That pretty much what I expected. It's how I remember seeing it last year. ...But by some chance would you know who were in the other two quarterfinals and what the results were?
     
  13. gorilla

    gorilla New Member

    Feb 13, 2002
    only five teams entered (i think because of the fee, the timing being so late in the year, and because there are only a handful of teams in mass with a realistic chance of winning). so by random draw, boston olympiakos advanced to the semis, and the other four teams played "quarterfinals." because the green briar had a better goal differential in their "quarterfinal", they advance to the final, and watertown plays olympiakos in the one "semifinal." at least that's how it was explained to me. strange system.

    also funny considering the same teams just competed in the national amateur cup.
     
  14. VioletCrown

    VioletCrown Member+

    FC Dallas
    United States
    Aug 30, 2000
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    ooooo-kay. Let me see if I can draw this:

    (well. I guess HTML is turned off. Drag. Nevermind. Sure would like to know how to format stuff. Do I have to be a 'special person', i.e. spend money to get that privelege?)

    Yep. That's strange alright. Would make more sense to just pick out two teams for one quarterfinal game, then pair up the remaining four for semifinals and final. But I'm not exactly surprised. Sounds like typical US amateur soccer:)
     
  15. monster

    monster Member

    Oct 19, 1999
    Hanover, PA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  16. VioletCrown

    VioletCrown Member+

    FC Dallas
    United States
    Aug 30, 2000
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    OK. Next question. When is 'spring'? I'm in Austin, TX. We have flowers blooming. (Though there's a rumor of a real freeze next week)
     
  17. VioletCrown

    VioletCrown Member+

    FC Dallas
    United States
    Aug 30, 2000
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Region IV info

    According to the Utah Soccer Assn. website, the Region IV final will be held in Albuquerque May 30 - June 1.

    And the deadline for Utah registration is January 21. One week from today.
     
  18. jmeissen0

    jmeissen0 New Member

    Mar 31, 2001
    page 1078
  19. VioletCrown

    VioletCrown Member+

    FC Dallas
    United States
    Aug 30, 2000
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just noticed that the Maryland qualifiers have moved to February 9.
     
  20. monster

    monster Member

    Oct 19, 1999
    Hanover, PA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I got an e-mail from the guy who runs the Kansas Cup who basically said they don't put USASA teams into the USOC. I'll have to reply to get more clarity. They play the amateur version, but not the one where the pro teams play. He said something about guaranteeing a 5,000 seat stadium.

    Also, I e-mailed requests for info to the USASA's director of the Open Cup and three of the four region chairmen (one died recently).

    Almost three weeks later, none have replied.
     
  21. VioletCrown

    VioletCrown Member+

    FC Dallas
    United States
    Aug 30, 2000
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Plus ca change, plus se la mem chose.

    Think I got the spelling approximately right. I don't know French.
     
  22. Steve Long

    Steve Long Member

    Nov 22, 1999
    springfield Va
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Monster,

    The Region I National Cups Commissioner is the son of the late Fritz Marth and is very much alive and in charge. He is doing a good job of following his dad's pattern of advancing the game.

    With the growth and inclusion of MLS, the Open Cup has become an event highly unlikely to be won by any USASA team. In days gone by its Champions usually came from USASA because of a lack of either truly professional leagues or interest by those that occasionally existed.

    The only distinction at any level is that professional players may not participate in the Amateur Cup. In recognition of the fact that USASA is no longer just amateur, but is, in fact Adult (vice Youth - USYSA), it is now the US Adult Soccer Association. Older logos are sometimes still used.

    In MDCVSA, we are part way through our Men's Amateur competition and already have an Open winner, Dynamos. They are coached by John Kerr of Diplomats and NFLPA/MLSPA fame.

    We also have a range of National Cups for our Women, a newer, but growing tradition. Early rounds will start in April for them and for the Men's over 30.

    Steve Long steve@MDCVSA.org
     
  23. monster

    monster Member

    Oct 19, 1999
    Hanover, PA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Steve:

    Thanks. I didn't know who had taken over and didn't want to e-mail to the link on the page out of respect. While I know that aa USASA team is unlikely to win the Cup, isn't it part of the fun of an "open" cup to at least give it a shot?

    The current format makes it very difficult for a David v. Goliath mathcup to take place so if that was tweaked I wish more teams would just for the experience.

    As someone who works with it, you obviously understand the ins and outs more and I appreciate the help. Just a lot of geeks like me want to see the possibility of Dynamos facing DC United in a meaningful game.

    I'll keep following the USOC at http://www.regularguycolumn.com/usoc2003.htm bu I am disappointed that others in charge who I have e-mailed haven't even replied.

    Thanks for your reply and good luck with the 2003 season.

    brian
     
  24. Brett

    Brett New Member

    HEY GORILLA

    do either of you guys play in the league that green briar or hellas or olympiakos does? i play for Ashton Celtic in that leage (MSSL).
     
  25. VioletCrown

    VioletCrown Member+

    FC Dallas
    United States
    Aug 30, 2000
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: HEY GORILLA

    Either of which guys? Me or Monster?

    I'm in Texas.

    And I won't speak for Monster, but I'm just weird about the Open Cup and try to dredge up whatever I can. That's why the interest in (nationally) obscure rec teams like Hellas, Green Briar, etc.

    So am thrilled to hear from anyone even remotely involved that can help us get information.
     

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