It's a Jozy thing: Altidore at Villarreal

Discussion in 'Yanks Abroad' started by Pass-n-Go, Nov 9, 2010.

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  1. FirstStar

    FirstStar Hustlin' for the USA

    Fulham Football Club
    Feb 1, 2005
    Time's Arrow
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'll let ark speak for himself, but I would ask you to answer this question-- which do you think has made Jozy a better player- (1) his year at Hull or (2) this season at VR?

    Clearly it's too early to answer this question yet, but it's good to think about. To me, he was thrown to the wolves at Hull and was played a lot but not coached or developed that much, which was understandable given their situation. VR does seem (to me) to be invested in coaching and developing him, but he's not getting to play that much. So far, I don't think it's a clear answer which is better at this stage in his career.

    I'd agree that PLAYING more for VR or a similar club would be the best, but I think that you can't say that playing a lot for a club in Hull's situation is an unqualified better option.
     
  2. Reignking

    Reignking Member

    Feb 16, 2005
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Rossi will move on, sooner or later...
     
  3. Rainer24

    Rainer24 Member

    Jan 6, 2008
    Nashville, TN
    Club:
    VfB Stuttgart
    Nat'l Team:
    United States


    There has been no fundamental shift in their style of play since they bought him, and the money they shelled out was not for a player they never expected to have a chance of starting. I just don't see what exactly you are basing your argument on.
     
  4. party1234

    party1234 Member

    May 4, 2010
    Riverside, Ca
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Jozy seems to be in the 18, but he needs to get that first league goal in order to get more playing time. If the US had a player scoring often in La liga that would be great...
     
  5. zapem_10

    zapem_10 Member

    Nov 25, 2009
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So are you saying that teams should cease developing any player not in the starting eleven?

    I guess that's one way to reign in spending in European football...all teams must now consist of only eleven players...damn where is that Adu thread scarasm orange button?
     
  6. arkjayback

    arkjayback Member

    Mar 29, 2008
    Le Mars, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, he has only played in one league game.
     
  7. arkjayback

    arkjayback Member

    Mar 29, 2008
    Le Mars, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't like to play the prediction game. Last time I started thinking about an American player's future club possibilities, the player had a near-death car crash about a month later. Anything can happen. I prefer to think more about progression and probability.

    Going to another team and getting playing time is not the sure-fire thing so many people think it is. I'm baffled that it is still such a common thought. Their thought process "he doesn't need to get SOME playing time at X club, he needs to get MORE playing time at Y club." It is more complex than that.

    If he goes to a new club, how much playing time will he get? What kind of expectations does the new club have for him? What will be the mental effects of his success or failure? How will that impact his playing time? What areas of his game will develop? Will he become more confident? What areas of his game may get worse? What kind of coach does the team have? What if he ended up playing for a Magath-type manager?

    There are so many question marks that people ignore and they're even more important in a loan situation. At Villareal, we know the answers to those questions. The coach has confidence in him. The club has an invested interest in him. He's getting playing time in Europa League and Copa Del Rey. His demeanor is much more confident and positive than it was at Hull. He has older, more experienced players around him that make the situation positive: Cazorla, Capdevila, Rossi, etc. Jozy is not a perfect fit for Villareal's style, but he's improving. In the one match I saw him play with Nilmar you could see them getting closer and closer to linking up with each other. That happened in one game. I know the overall improvements are occurring as well.

    I don't think there is anything wrong with people wanting him to get more playing time. There really isn't even that much wrong with wanting him to go on loan for more playing time. However, I think you're stubborn, biased, and short-sighted if you ignore all of the positives and think his situation at Villareal is irreconcilable or whatever.

    I think of it this way: if he could do it all over again, would Freddy Adu stay with Benfica or bounce around Europe in search of immediate playing time?
     
  8. McGarnagle

    McGarnagle Member+

    Apr 29, 2010
    Club:
    FC Ingolstadt 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ruben has had 8 sub appearances without a goal. I guess he must do better in training, or maybe it's just that he's the coach's guy and Jozy isn't.
     
  9. Susaeta

    Susaeta BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 3, 2009
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ibra probably is a better player overall than Eto'o, but he made Barcelona a more predictable team. If you watched El Clasico this week, you saw Barcelona futbol under Guardiola at its best. They essentially leave the space in front of goal open, with no one player occupying it. Even Villa more often plays wide. They then take turns making cutting runs into that space, a nightmare for defenders as it is difficult to predict from where the danger will come.

    The idea was that Ibra would be a pivot player around whom others would combine to create chances in front of goal. He was too stationary for the Barcelona game, though, and that is why Pep abandoned the experiment halfway through the season.

    How is this pertinent to a thread on Jozy?

    Jozy will be more valuable as a mobile forward who can face and take on attackers. When people say he does not fit Villareal's style, my guess is they think of Jozy as a more traditional target forward. Villareal does not see Jozy that way. In their minds he fits their style fine, just a young player still making his way into the rotation behind two very good players.
     
  10. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

    Apr 12, 2004
    Fairfax, Va
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Good post. :cool:
     
  11. uniteo

    uniteo Member+

    Sep 2, 2000
    Rockville, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agree totally, I was talking about the thoughts before he actually played with Barca. He proved himself unable to adjust.

    As for the applicability to Jozy...he's always preferred to get out into space and run at people, I think. And he's young enough that he's still developing his tactical identity. So I think comparing him to Ibra at Barca is premature at best.
     
  12. Kqql

    Kqql Member

    Sep 22, 2003
    Yes there was a fundamental change in the way Villarreal played during Valverde time in 09/10 season till he was fired on Jan 31, 2010.

    During that time Villarreal played less of possession / short passes soccer and more of long ball / counter attack / pressure football/soccer, but Jozy was on Loan @ Hull.

    .
     
  13. Rainer24

    Rainer24 Member

    Jan 6, 2008
    Nashville, TN
    Club:
    VfB Stuttgart
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Well, he tried, and you see how that worked out for him. They seem to be back to more of how Pelligrini was doing, and seeing as Pelligrini was the one who bought Jozy, I don't see that the club views him as someone who does not fit their style. I know you aren't making that claim, but some are, and I find it to be an assertion with little basis in fact.
     
  14. striker

    striker Member+

    Aug 4, 1999
    If true, that doesn't bode well for Jozy. IMO, one of his weaknesses is off the ball runs.
     
  15. Gorky

    Gorky Member+

    Jul 28, 2006
    NYC
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is why it's good that he's training with a team like Villarreal. If nothing else, he should learn how to make better off the ball runs after this season.
     
  16. pate

    pate Member+

    Jun 12, 2007
    Provo, UT
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Or, it bodes well for Jozy and the USMNT since he'll improve his off the ball play.
     
  17. Gorky

    Gorky Member+

    Jul 28, 2006
    NYC
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  18. Gorky

    Gorky Member+

    Jul 28, 2006
    NYC
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  19. striker

    striker Member+

    Aug 4, 1999
    I guess you are a more glass-half-full kind of person than me. IF Villarreal really wants to develop Jozy into a mobile forward, I just don't see it happening. Yes, Jozy will improve some, but will it be enough for him to be kept around for long?
     
  20. Digs

    Digs Member

    Sep 9, 2007
    I don't really get this thinking. Of course they want to develop him. He is a young player on their team and an investment.
     
  21. CDM76

    CDM76 Member+

    May 9, 2006
    Socal
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How long is Jozy's contract? I believe he was signed for six years in the summer of 2008.

    Since transfer fees are directly related to the number of years left under contract, it seems reasonable that Villarreal expected Jozy to become valuable enough to seriously contribute to the club or command a transfer fee equal or greater to their original fee with about two years left on his contract.

    That would suggest Villarreal expected to spend 4 years developing Jozy into a top-flight striker before he turns 23. He's just less than 2 1/2 years into the process.

    I'd say they're right on track.
     
  22. Reignking

    Reignking Member

    Feb 16, 2005
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No Jozy today.
     
  23. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

    Oct 14, 2004
    Off track now.
     
  24. CDM76

    CDM76 Member+

    May 9, 2006
    Socal
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Of course, you're right. One isolated incident defines the pattern of progression.
     
  25. roboatse

    roboatse Member

    Oct 4, 2010
    seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    if you aren't getting playing time when your team is up 2 or 3 goals in the final 3rd of the game, when are you going to play?
     

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