It's almost 2019,... and lo, the playoffs remain flawed; the defense of the regular ssn continues...

Growing up I remember real stories of refs getting chased and beaten after games. In that environment, that rule makes perfect sense, because defending at home can be much easier. Away goals were genuinely harder.

Of course in a cleaned up soccer environment and especially MLS it doesn't work like that, because give supporters a chainsaw here, and they will just go and cut wood like normal people.

 

Anyway, good post Unak and a lot of food for thought. I never put much thought into it before.

I think I don't mind it one way or another. It's not perfect, but it mostly gets rid of penalty shootouts, which are also not perfect.

Also, I don't think playoff teams need to have a meaningful home advantage (beyond round 1). Especially when they play through FIFA windows and people can get called up, and that can swing playoff seeding.

 

Unak78 wrote as if the away goals rule is bad for the better seeds. In 2013, the Red Bulls won the Supporters' Shield and were at home for the second leg of the Eastern Conference Semifinals against Houston, which the Red Bulls lost in extra time. The Red Bulls would have won without extra time if away goals had mattered. MLS started using away goals in 2014, and 2014 and 2015 combined to have 12 two leg series (4 in the Conference Semifinals and 2 in the Conference Finals each year). 2 of them were decided by away goals, with away goals helping the second leg home club once and helping the second leg away club once. I'm not saying away goals are great, but they can help either club. Even when the second leg home club is eliminated on away goals, some of those clubs would have lost in extra time or penalty kicks if away goals weren't used.

As for a Group Stage in the playoffs, I don't like the idea. In American sports with series that go the maximum amount of games, the worse team gets to host 2 out of 5 games or 3 out of 7 games. Clubs that had all 3 playoff games away would have very little chance at advancing, and their fans would know that, especially considering the MLS clubs are more balanced in points per game than the top European leagues and home field matters more in MLS. A Group Stage requiring 3 matchdays with 2 clubs advancing from each group followed by Semifinals and a Final done in 1 game each would required 5 games to go from 8 clubs to 1 champion, which is the same as with the current format. However, this year there are FIFA matchdays in between the Conference Semifinals and Conference Finals. If the Group Stage schedule was applied to this year, there would be a break in between the second and third Group Stage matchdays, which I don't like. One alternative would be to play the Group Stage on weekend-midweek-weekend to end sooner, but then clubs that had to play in the Knockout Round would have 5 games in 15 days going back to the last regular season game, and hypothetically all 5 games could be away. A Group Stage also creates the possibility of being eliminated on goal differential or goals scored that factor in games the club being eliminated didn't play in, which is arguably worse than being eliminated on away goals. In MLB, NFL, NBA, and NHL; a team could need help on the last day of the season to make the playoffs, and a team could have a rooting interest in another playoff game in terms of the team wanting home field advantage in the next round, but a team cannot be eliminated from playoffs by a playoff game that team didn't play in.

 

Yesterday's games show that the format needs to be improved. Why have seeding and the pretense of home field advantage when the higher seed can lose the series on the road in one game anyway?

Why should a lower seed be able to run up the score at home then park the bus on the road? How does being required to play from behind during your home leg while also having to worry about the other team scoring a dreaded away goal off a counter-attack reward a higher regular season finish?!?!?

I remember back in 2014, DC United was eliminated from the playoffs by winning at home. The casual fans that our league wants to turn into more regular fans were both perplexed and disgusted. They felt cheated and turned off from the league. In 2014, the Sounders advanced in one series and then were eliminated and the tied all four games. What a farce! I felt for the Sounders fans and players as they were straight-up robbed.

Just bite the bullet with the scheduling and play best of three series. I get that the TV networks love the scheduling predictability of home and home series. Just make the third game of the series on a Wednesday. Then the networks still get the Sunday afternoon programming slots.

Soccer is about who can score more goals in 90 minutes. It makes no sense to have that be the competition format for seven months then completely change the format when it counts the most. I get that the league wants to give the lower seed a home game. Just have the first game be at the lower seed, then the second and third games be at the higher seed. Both teams get a home gate and both teams have the same travel costs as under a home and home.

 

By adding 1 game each to the Conference Semifinals and Conference Finals, do you want the players to be more tired? Do you want MLS Cup to be later in December and more likely to have snow? One option would be more playoff games and fewer regular season games, but then the non-playoff clubs would have at least one fewer home game to get money from. If the Conference Semifinals took 3 games, it would have the same problem I said a Group Stage requiring each club to play 3 games would have. Either the clubs that won the Knockout Round would have to play 5 games in 15 days (weekend-midweek-weekend-midweek-weekend) with the 3 Conference Semifinal games being weekend-midweek-weekend, or there would be national team games in between the second and third Conference Semifinal games.

 

To take advantage of the higher seeds, why don't they just go back to a single-game elimination with the host team being the higher seed? You could probably fit more teams into the playoffs and still take less time, which could allow for a longer regular season schedule. Right now, the MLS Cup teams will play a maximum of 39-40 games in a season. replacing the current playoff format with a 16-team single elimination will result in playoff teams playing only 38 games in a season and it would finish quicker. If you really wanted to accelerate the playoffs, have the 4 rounds played in two weeks and you can finish the season before the November international break.

 

Fair criticism. How about home and home, most points wins with overtime as the tiebreaker? Same number of games but with a home field advantage? That way a higher seed can't be functionally eliminated because they lost on the road. Home field advantage is about a lower seed being required to win on the road to advance.

 

The MLS playoffs have had at least a home-and-away first round for the entire history of the league. The idea was that every playoff team gets at least one home game.

The league could go back to a single-elimination conference final, that was done for quite a while, and the knock-out round has been a single game since that was instituted in 2001, but they can't go back to single-game elimination throughout the playoffs. It didn't happen.

 

It would be unusual to use points but not aggregate goals after that. Let's say a club wins 3:0 and is losing 1:0 after regulation. If points but not aggregate goals were used, the club could give up a goal in extra time to lose 2:0 and be eliminated while having scored more aggregate goals.

Making each round have one game would allow for more playoff clubs like Initial B said, but there's no need to have more clubs in the playoffs. Making each round have one game would make the same playoff format as the NFL (which might attract more casual fans) except that the Super Bowl is at a neutral site and that NFL conferences are divided into divisions and MLS conferences are not. One advantage would be that you wouldn't have to worry about FIFA matchdays in between two games of a round.

 

I personally would prefer points instead of goals. Wining the first game 3-0 shouldn't be that much better than winning 1-0. A win is a win. If the points are even after the 2nd game then play overtime/penalties to break the tie. I'd even be in favor of having the overtime be a 30 minute mini-game where teams could change line-ups, whatever.

I also think that series should be Wednesday/Thursday and then Sunday. The playoffs drag out too long between games. I'd even be in favor of a two game final.

The FIFA break is an issue and Thanksgiving but this year they should have done this:

October 30 - Knockout games
November 2 and 6 - Conference quarterfinals
November 17 and 20 - Conference final
November 23 and 27 - Cup final


Whatever they do, MLS should get rid of away goals. Goals are goals to me. It shouldn't matter where you score them.

 

I hate home and home playoffs especially the first game in which the home team is happy to win 1-0 and the away team is happy to only lose 1-0 at least seattle tried to score more. The first game is so defensive with both teams afraid to make a mistake.

 

I like it. Its fair to both teams. Both teams get a home date. The away goal rule makes incentives crystal clear to everyone in the second leg and minimizes the crap shoot of PKs. I think hosting the second leg is actually a large advantage and good reward for higher seed team. 2 legs also extends the drama more than a one off would.

There is no perfect solution to playoff format but, to me, the current format is as good as can be.

 

There's a Chicago joke in here somewhere

 

I am pretty sure this thread about to be combined with the other discussion of playoff format. The thing is, I don't get why the away team bunkers. Makes no tactical sense with the away goals rule. It makes more sense for the home team to try to grind out a 1-0. But last night away teams got outscored 7-0.

 

I feel ya about avoiding PKs. But I would rather it be higher seed advances. The lower seed would still be incentivized to attack, because the only way not lose would be to win outright.

 

Scrap the away goals rule and give the tie-breaker to the better regular season team. That's how you lend more importance to the 34-game grind.

 

Or at least scrap it and have the higher seeded team enjoy the benefit of playing extra 30 minutes at home even if they lost 1:0 away and won 3:2 home. We had no away goal rule in 2013. What genius decided that we must switch back to it?

 

My ideal: knockout round and quarters are 1 and done. This would more adequately reward regular season performance. Semi final and MLS Cup are two-legged. To me, MLS Cup not being two-legged makes no sense in a two conference league. So part of the reason for making quarters single legged to not extend the season too long.

No away goals after 180 minutes. Golden goal. If tied after 210, away goals do count.

 

I wish I could punch a thread without wrecking my monitor.

 

First the purpose of the away goals was to try and liven up the first leg of the home and away ties in Europe. You can argue if it's worked or not. While it has given encouragement for the road team to attack it also forces the home team to sit back. Personally I am not a huge fan of it in Europe, although it does reduce shoot outs which is a positive.

As for MLS agree 100% that it makes less sense.

But something to keep in mind is the home and away aggregate format isn't just a Euro thing. That is the format for Copa Libertadores, CAF playoffs and FIFA intercontinental playoffs among many others. It's a widely accepted format in soccer everywhere not just in Europe.

How would I change it? In a vacuum with no other considerations I would vote for single elimination. It gives an advantage to the higher seed and creates a level of drama for the neutral. Personally I would reduce the playoffs to 8 teams to help insure that a "good" team wins the cup.

Another idea that would keep the home and away comes from the Mexican league (yeah I know). If the two teams are tied after 180 minutes the higher seeded team advances. In this case the away goals rule might make sense because it would discourage the higher seed from sitting back and playing for a 0-0 draw in their road match.

Didn't MLS do this for a season when they were shifting from the best of 3 to the home and home?

 

Clear up the schedule. Single elimination, weekend games only. Teams are rested, higher seeds are rewarded. #beautifulgame #regularseasonmatters #hashtagsareweird

 

there wasn't a "back to it". it was a new direction, probably to appease Eurosnobs.