It’s time to have an honest discussion about our home support and the SJ Ultras

Thanks - I remember every damn one of those games (particularly the Richard Herron one, since I was hit with lot of thrown trash and narrowly missed getting beaned by a shoe, of all things!) The story we heard on the US/Canada power outage is that it was caused by mylar confetti shorting out a transformer on 7th street - but I have no way to confirm that.

 

I think I have seen the same post from you a million times. Clubby and Cliquey? Really...Ultras are family. People help each other travel expenses, game tickets, with hospital bills, finding jobs, showing support to each other in general sometimes more than actual family members do. So the Ultras invited you/accepted you to an away game with them. There was work and money behind putting a trip together. From buses arrangements to game tickets, from hotel reservations to game day operations with host front office. Almost always the Ultras lose money on these trips. They pay everything out of their pocket, and sometimes people do not pay back. So instead of appreciating the nice gesture of taking you on board with them, you decide to criticize them. Same as with people who are invited over for dinner, then instead of appreciating the gesture, they criticize your house decor, your food, etc. So let's wonder why the Ultras are careful to newcomers, after they got burned so many times by people whom they welcomed on board and treated like friends and family. A "thank you" but this is not for me would have been enough. Instead let's shit on their work and on them welcoming us.

Speaking of paranoia...very ironic! You accuse them of being paranoid but in the same paragraph you accuse them of giving you tickets in a different section to purposely keep you away. Wow! So they took you in their bus, but they wanted to put you in a different section. Ultras have always been about unity. The whole purpose of organizing these trios and accepting non members on board is to keep all Quakes fans as a united group. Whatever FO they deal with when they travel hand them the tickets. Sometimes those tickets are not together, but it's a given everybody receiving them will go in the designated section. It's always general admission in the Ultras section. You can have tickets for the luxury boxes, if you came with the Ultras and want to stand with them you stand with them. I witnessed the Ultras leadership a ton of times arguing with security to let non members Quakes fans in. Almost at every game I see that especially since they moved into the terrace where security is stopping people from joining them.

 

Welcome back to the board, proud smurf!

 

A post filled with blatant lies and inaccuracies coming from a person who was welcomed with open arms by the Ultras, invited to all the private events despite many mistakes and red flags. Not once you took on our invites, never participated in anything, never made any suggestions. All voices are listened to, but on random discussion boards and bitch about the group while you had full access to them is a cowardly move. I admit I was one of the many guys who were concerned about this young fellow. Showing up in the section drunk while underage was a liability for the Ultras. Bringing the embarrassing Fisher protest into the section creating the impression that the Ultras were protesting Fisher was another red flag. On all instances when we brought these issues up to the leadership Dan defended him, which proved to be a big mistake. Let's take it step by step:

1- Difficulty to obtain tickets. In order to get tickets in the Ultras section you generally have to email the capo and use PayPal which is more difficult and discrete than other groups that sell through the club or on their own website.

Outright lie! You can obtain tickets in the Ultras section from Ticketmaster, from the box office, from scalpers, etc. By getting them through the group, you avoid paying fees and waiting in long lines at the box office. The group did you a favor by offering you tickets, and now you criticize them for that.

Reputation. From what I understand, many Quakes fans see the Ultras as exclusive and even antagonist. This makes them much less likely to want to join in.
False! The Ultra section is populated by folks of all ages, skin colors, social status. All you have to do is show some respect and participate. You were received with open arms, treated like part of the family, helped with tickets, travels, and allowed many mistakes which were harmful and disrespectful to the group. I wish the Ultras were exclusivist and never accept you in their section.

3. Lack of funds. Since the Ultras don’t take club money and have so few members they can’t do as many elaborate tifos any more.

You have no idea. Ultras always collected money when they needed it. Lack of tifos have nothing to do with the lack of funds. There was a three section tifo that was not allowed at Stanford because it was not brought in. Other restrictions imposed by the league are the real reasons why there was less tifo than usual.

4: Marketing (or lack thereof.) The Ultras only really market through their main social media accounts. I’ve only once seen them hand out flyers and never seen them post on forums such as Quakes reddit or big soccer.

Marketing? Ultras are not a business. Why would the Ultras promote themselves on small outlets like this board populated by 10-15 people, the same people who always talk crap about the Ultras. You promoted your FisherOut protest on these boards. How did those numbers turn out?

You also forgot to add that in addition of always being welcomed and invited to all Ultras private events you were given rides numerous times by Ultras members who went out of their way to take you to games, otherwise you would have not been able to attend. Pretty exclusivist of them huh? Cause most jerks and asshole are kind enough to pick up and take back underage kids who live two hours away, eh?

 

It is mind boggling to see how much negativity is on this board. A shrinking board where a lot of folks left exactly because of negativity is criticizing a group that has been around for 16 years and that does more than just type crap about other fans. Not once did the Ultras post or say anything bad about this Bigsoccer community. Not once! They never accuse people of not being loud enough or of not going to the games. Ultras policy of not being involved into any online wars is being advantage by all kinds of armchair support experts, some very self righteous and entitled people on here who keep posting these toxic, negative and inaccurate things about the Ultras.

If everybody talking shit about the Ultras would spend all this time and energy in improving the atmosphere or starting their own supporter group, Avaya would be in much better shape. Instead they decide to shit on some people's work and dedication that made them keep this group going over all these years despite probably the most hostile front office in the league. Ultras are not some public company where all share holders have a saying. You don't like them, don't join them. You think you can do better? start your own. You wanna make a suggestion to improve them, join them, put in work, be respectful and your voice will be heard.

Just ironic how such a negative and hostile online community is accusing a group who did so much good not only for the team but for the local community of not being welcoming.

 

The San Jose Ultras are always blamed for everything. Never fails.

 

it's so hard to have an honest discussion about this stuff. and while it's great to see you back proud smurf, I really wish it wasn't at the expense of our beloved moderator and the thread starter who I think was really well intentioned and asking questions that are probably on minds of most diehard Quakes fans. Ultras should be able to handle some constructive criticism, that's how they grow and get better, I feel like the Ultras get a lot of love in here, and appreciation...which is well deserved, but you guys should be open to feedback as well and not be so hyper-sensitive when the larger Quakes family provides you with a little.

 

Faultline and Club Quake are basically the latter-day Casbah (most of whom refused to support MLS after sending the team to Houston, and left, never to return for whatever "Quakes" were reinstalled by Garbage, et al), and along with the latest incarnation of Imperio, are all doing rather well and growing, but the mom and pop atmosphere favored by the FO results in a lot of curious seat-sitters and phone-gazers, as well as thousands dawdling around and behind LOBINA. A rather challenging situation in which to foster an impressive SG atmosphere, but we persist. Oh, and the giant drum wasn't our idea. Ultras are doing fine, and should have way more room in which to operate than they presently have at Avaya, btw.
Everybody is welcome to stop by our little spot, stand, and cheer. If you buy me a beer. So there. Go Quakes!

 

I'm super hyper-sensitive because when innocent Ultras (including both me and proud smurf) were "collectively punished" six years ago, we got no solidarity from fellow Quakes fans on this board, or from supporters across the league -- except from the Montreal Ultras and the District Ultras. The Timbers Army and the ISC could not be bothered to speak in support of basic decency for the undeniably innocent, because they are consumed with hatred for the Ultras, just like evidently are some people on this board.

There was, for example, one asshole who posted on this board (long gone), a former Ultra who (unlike me and proud smurf) was himself in Portland on the fateful day, and who was one of the founders of the splinter-group Faultline. He rebuffed my specific personal request to speak out in solidarity for me and other innocent Ultras, his former brothers and sisters.

I was on my way to forgiving, but I have not forgotten. And this thread has opened an old scab.

Punishing the innocent is fascist. Full. Stop. And those who stood by silently or actively approved, including some still on this board, acted reprehensibly.

But, yeah, let's have an honest conversation about the Ultras. LOL.

Everyone on here and all across MLS should look in the mirror and honestly examine their own authoritarian souls first.

 

Like I said, I think the Ultras get a ton of love in here and I honestly hear next to no criticism. Most fans are probably far more concerned with our game day atmosphere at home and how we can make the place more formidable and lift our team collectively. I really can't remember any of the details about Portland but I wonder if your expectations might be a little unrealistic about the amount of attention and energy everyday fans (and posters in here) want to invest in an incident that happened up there...let alone one that took place years ago. I understand this is still a sore subject for you and probably others too, but it hardly seems like something that should create long standing friction and animosity between our biggest SG and the rest of Quakes Nation. You're obviously entitled to your feelings but at the end of the day we're talking about how we can all best unite and support our team at home.

 

That's funny, I thought we were talking about starting over from scratch, after disbanding the Ultras.

And @USA Saint needs to answer proud smurf's charges about spitting in the face of the Ultras' hospitality extended toward him.

I don't think you understand how insulting the criticism is both on this thread, and historically. Why don't you ask the splinter group, Faultline, about unity?

 

I can confirm it. I sat there and watched the Mylar cloud float over the stands and go behind me onto 7th Street. The lights went out a few minutes later,

 

We had a long back-and-forth on PM in August 2013, and while you alluded to having spoken with Dave Kaval, I did not understand you to say you asked him to lift the ban. In fact, the full back-and-forth shows my frustration in getting a straight answer from you regarding your position -- which appears to have been I could attend the Quakes game in LA, but not as an Ultra, because they had no way to effectively enforce the ban against me.

And, as stated in one of my PMs at the time:

August 7 [2013], you wrote: "'Punishing' the innocent members of a group is not a bad management strategy. Peer pressure can be far more effective than dictates handed down from on high."

You also told me on PM that I was part of the problem in suggesting illegality. Subsequently, however, after I wrote the MLS general counsel citing authorities in support of my position that the collective punishment violated California law, and the league reportedly spent $25,000 on New York attorneys to verify that I was correct, the league relented and lifted the collective punishment preventing the Ultras' travel.

 

Vigorous debate and "honest discussion" is not the same thing as punishing the innocent, or censoring someone. If your opinion is invalid, my pointing that out is not fascist.

 

Elaborate. What part of my authoritarian soul should I examine?

 

My daughter actually submitted this feedback at school. Not sure if I should ground her or buy her ice cream... pic.twitter.com/4v8Gjb9riv

— Mason Cross (@MasonCrossBooks) May 25, 2017

 

Don't you think fans have every right and reason to protest Fisher? I'd hoped for solidarity with our Ultras on this and was thankful to get my hands on a "Fisher Out!" scarf...bringing in Matias has been huge but we still haven't accomplished anything yet. If we don't make the playoffs it will be hard to call this season a success. I absolutely blame Fisher for our small team status.

 

we're going to differ here slightly.

 

Don't you think the Ultras have the right to control their own messaging?

 

of course they do.

 

The Nazis weren't the only fascists. They weren't even the first fascists.

The common thread between Nazi brown shirts, Mussolini's black shirts, the Iron Front and communist street thugs of the same era is that they were all paramilitary arms of political parties that sought to assume and exercise political power by violently attacking their adversaries in the streets -- just like Antifa does today.