Israeli Clubs in West Bank: Breach of FIFA Regulations?

Discussion in 'FIFA and Tournaments' started by Nico Limmat, Jul 4, 2016.

  1. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Country:
    Switzerland
    Forgive me, what UEFA decision? To my knowledge UEFA has not taken a decision in this matter. They can't (by definition). This is a dispute between member associations from different confederations. As per the FIFA Statutes only FIFA can provide a ruling in such matters. Quite frankly if it were up to UEFA we probably would have a ruling already. It didn't take them very long to address the Crimean dispute. I wish FIFA would show the same resolve here.
    That may very well be the case. Similarly Crimea may never be part of Ukraine again. But we can't move on in a sporting sense until we move on politically. And I would term the definition of that as majority backing in the internationally community along the lines of Kosovo. It makes no sense for FIFA to stray from that decision making process.
    The only thing relevant in this matter is the international status of Zone C. Nothing else. FIFA needs to show some backbone and declare its definition of Palestinian borders and the associated PFA jurisdiction. Personally speaking I would be shocked if it is anything but the 1967 borders.
    As long as this conflict remains "frozen" we don't know which land will end up where. As for your final notion, a lot has happened since 1995. A number of European countries formally recognize Palestine now. In any case, it is the global view that prevails at a body like FIFA - not the view held in Europe or North America.

    International Recognition of Palestine:
    [​IMG]
     
  2. goliath74

    goliath74 Member

    May 24, 2006
    Aventura, FL, United States
    Club:
    FC Dynamo Kyiv
    Country:
    Ukraine
    Israeli Federation is a member of the UEFA. I think UEFA might have a bit to say about FIFA if their opinions on this subject differed.

    Crimea is universally considered a part of Ukraine. Zone "C", as part of the solution to the Palestinian conflict is almost as universally accepted (or was accepted in mid-1990s) as being under Israeli jurisdiction, civil, administrative, as well as military.

    Israel retains jurisdiction over Zone "C". 1967 borders do not exist. They are a non-factor. Not even Palestinians admit that those borders can ever be a reality.

    The recognition of Palestine does not include recognition of its borders in any particular configuration. And, it is apparent from the map, an overwhelming majority of European states actually DO NOT recognize Palestine. I see Iceland, Vatican, and Sweden, plus a hodge-podge of Eastern European countries (but not the Baltics)
     
  3. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Country:
    Switzerland
    I imagine UEFA are delighted that FIFA got stuck with this ruling and will go along with whatever FIFA decides. At least in my opinion. Nobody in their right mind wants to get dragged into this mess.
    You got the right idea with the bolded part. That was over 20 years ago and we are approaching 50 years of Isreali occupation. Things have changed.
    It's called leverage to negotiate a final agreement (assuming the two state solution ever goes ahead).
    If a country went through the trouble of recognizing Palestine then I am quite confident in saying they did it with the 1967 borders in mind. Otherwise why bother? Just follow Israel's lead. The recognition of Palestine is a diplomatic move to apply pressure on Israel. Even Obama, president of Israel's closest ally, stated the 1967 borders should be the starting point of a peace agreement.
    I never claimed it was a majority. The point is a number of European countries are growing tired of this conflict and I see a number of them following Sweden's example in the not too distant future. But as I said previously, Europe's view is not at the center of this FIFA dilemma. The global view prevails.

    I feel like we are arguing around the crux of the matter. It all boils down to this:

    1. Is there enough international support in 2016 to recognize Israel's annexation of Zone C in the West Bank? (Y/N)

    2. Would FIFA stray from the above opinion held globally? (Y/N)


    I answer both question with a resounding NO. What about you?
     
  4. goliath74

    goliath74 Member

    May 24, 2006
    Aventura, FL, United States
    Club:
    FC Dynamo Kyiv
    Country:
    Ukraine
    My answers are "Yes" to the first question and "Who knows" to the second.
     
  5. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Country:
    Switzerland
    Fair enough. We will just have to disagree on the underlying premise.
     
  6. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Country:
    Switzerland
    Scots MEP leads call to ban Israeli teams from the West Bank
    The pressure is increasing on FIFA to finally issue a ruling.

    Looks like the FIFA Council will discuss the matter at its meeting in October.
     
  7. edcalvi

    edcalvi Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 1, 2005
    Nevada
    Country:
    Guatemala
    Israel is losing support year after year. Israel's administration of "Zone C" does change the fact that this is and will always be illegally occupied land. We have to remember that the West Bank was actually a part of Jordan and taken by means of war.
     
  8. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Country:
    United States
    So was Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, California, ect. But that issue has been settled long time ago.
     
  9. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Country:
    Switzerland
    It all boils down to the international recognition and that is the (high-level) discussion I would like to have here. I just don't see it in this case. Not even close.
     
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  10. edcalvi

    edcalvi Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 1, 2005
    Nevada
    Country:
    Guatemala
    No formal treaty was ever signed, officially ceding the West Bank to Israel. Those US states were ceded through treaties.
     
  11. Chicago76

    Chicago76 Member+

    Jun 9, 2002
    -UEFA doesn't care about 3rd/4th division Israeli clubs on territory that is internationally recognized as falling under the Palestinian Authority.

    -Israel seeking shelter within UEFA has nothing to do with this. Guyana is politically recognized and it falls within the continent of South America, yet it is a member of CONCACAF. It's no different. Internationally recognized states can form an FA and affiliate with any confederation that will have them. That's a separate thing.

    -it doesn't matter what the future of zone C is. Right now it is internationally recognized as part of the Palestinian Authority.

    -these teams playing in an unofficial capacity within Jewish settlement areas is certainly less controversial than what they are currently doing. Why? because it is not consistent with international recognition of said patch of dirt where these clubs reside. It's not that hard. The reality on the ground may be that these are Israeli areas, but that is secondary to international recognition. If Canada set up shop in Buffalo after the War of 1812 and these area was never recognized as part of Canada, then they would not be permitted to have a club there that is affiliated with the CSA.
     
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  12. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Nassau County, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Country:
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  13. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Country:
    Switzerland
    Fifa urged to kick out Israeli football clubs located in West Bank
    Do we have an actual confirmation that this issue is on the FIFA Council agenda in October?

    And the article cites six clubs? Did I miss something?

     
  14. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Country:
    Switzerland
    #39 Nico Limmat, Sep 28, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2016
    Reading the Human Rights Watch Report clarified a few things:
    But the breach doesn't end there...
    And yes, it looks like the FIFA Council will deal with this issue next month:
    The FIFA Council needs to take the correct decision here. Any IFA activity within the internationally recognized borders of the West Bank has to be banned. Full stop.

    As for this argument presented in the report...

    [​IMG]

    Keep the clubs up and running for the communities. Just sever the IFA affiliation.
     
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  15. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Country:
    Switzerland
    The Israeli FA apparently tried to prevent discussion of the West Bank clubs at the FIFA Council meeting...
    ...but evidently failed to do so. There it is at 15.3 on the agenda.
     
  16. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Country:
    Switzerland
    #41 Nico Limmat, Oct 13, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2016
    UN sets out position on Israeli settlement football clubs in letter to Fifa
    I imagine we will hear something by tomorrow afternoon.
     
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  17. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Country:
    Switzerland
  18. edcalvi

    edcalvi Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 1, 2005
    Nevada
    Country:
    Guatemala
  19. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Nassau County, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Country:
    United States
  20. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Country:
    Switzerland
    The UN Security Council passed a resolution this week further condemning Israeli settlement construction:
    Your move FIFA.
     
  21. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Country:
    Switzerland
    Will FIFA finally take a decision tomorrow? The issue is listed on the FIFA Council agenda (13.1).

    If FIFA want to (quietly) tell the Israeli FA to get out of the occupied territories tomorrow is the day. Everyone's attention will be on the likely World Cup expansion for 2026.
     
  22. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Country:
    Switzerland
    No news. I can only assume FIFA has delayed the decision once again. Unbelievable if true.
     
  23. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Country:
    Switzerland
  24. Sandinista

    Sandinista Member+

    Apr 11, 2010
    Buenos Aires
    Club:
    Racing Club de Avellaneda
    Country:
    Argentina
    So, the guy responsable for the final report is called Tokyo Sexwale.

    Ok...
     
  25. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Country:
    Switzerland
    Pressure builds for West Bank solution as Sexwale still to report:
    :rolleyes:
     
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