The top 10 most technically gifted might be an interesting topic in itself to be fair, and even a genuine 'new' one for Big Soccer perhaps. Surely a hard call, but this might be my first draft: Ronaldinho Dragan Stojkovic Zinedine Zidane MIchael Laudrup Zico Johan Cruyff George Best Diego Maradona Glenn Hoddle Juan Schiaffino (Not intended to be in order, and maybe I miss some I'd include with a longer think)
Yeah, already I think I take out Cruyff (although I think he was very well-rounded in terms of technical gifts) and Schiaffino (whose inclusion was a bit uncertain anyway) and put in Alessandro Del Piero (just like Zico, I think he had really clean and precise striking of the ball, with accurate placement and curl, which also counts as a significant technical gift and so I'll squeeze him in as the Italian representative as his general technique was also very impressive) and Dennis Bergkamp (who had slipped my mind although if the topic was just 'touch' rather than 'technical gifts' his name would have come straight to the brain!) even though when it comes to dribbling at least many others were technically (as well as physically) better suited to impressive, and certainly extensive, dribbling than those two were.
Would you say Hoddle is the main one for England just like you picked Del Piero over Baggio/Rivera for Italy?
Probably. Other candidates might be Le Tissier, Gascoigne (given dribbling was specifically mentioned), perhaps Osgood although not sure. And yes, those two and Totti came to mind from Italy certainly.
They are valid candidates, but I think there are a good number of very valid candidates (more than 10 definitely!). Cool by me that you include them though - who are your other 8?
An attempt without having thought about it much Bergkamp Maradona Ronaldinho Messi Zidane Piksi Baggio Cruyff Djalminha Laudrup Isco and Cassano just miss out
Maradona, Zidane, Bergkamp, Baggio, Cassano, Ronaldinho, Messi, and Isco recently. These are the top for me.(I know they are only 8 and not 10). These are the players that have most impresed me with their tehcnique and touch on the ball. Guys like Stojkovic, Francescoli, Zico, Iniesta etc. all have world class touch, but are just beneath my list IMO.
There are also several ones who are technically gifted in their own position, i.e. Sar and Neuer among goalkeepers, Beckenbauer among sweepers, Romario and Van Basten among strikers, or someone like Giresse and Iniesta in their roles. For the all-purpose type of players one can think of Nedved (very underrated technique imho) and Gullit, even Davids to some degree. As remarked in the 'best crop' thread, imho the ~ 1964 to ~ 1969 birth years are loaded with technically gifted, creative, diverse in execution and imaginative players. Among the ones that I consider for their team of the decade (i.e. best of their era). What I consider: - Quality of first touch and the direction/purpose of it - The diversity of the technical package - Is it made of use against the strongest opponents Ferenc Puskas (1950 - 1960) Pelé (1960 - 1970) Gianni Rivera (1960 - 1970) Johan Cruijff (1965 - 1975 and/or 1970 - 1980) Rivelino (1970 - 1980) Diego Maradona (1980 - 1990) Michael Laudrup (1985 - 1995) Roberto Baggio (1990 - 2000) Dennis Bergkamp (1990 - 2000) Zinedine Zidane (1995 - 2005) Ronaldinho (2000 - 2010) Ibrahimovic (2005 - 2015) [not entirely sure] Messi (2010 - 2020) I don't think though Cruijff was at his technically very best in the 1974 World Cup. Of course it was one of the best performances ever (when taking into account opposition strength per Elo), but probably him missing much of the preparation through knee injury had an effect. Himself ten years later gives a much better impression, including good/impressive solo goals against Liverpool and Tottenham (both among the best and best organised club teams in the world).
Why are you guys even trying to make a case for players we have little to no recording evidence of them being technically godlike in any way? and literally no one mentions Neymar, arguably the best and the most consistent trickster since Ronaldinho, dribbling off the chart, as well as first touches,... if you go for a broader meaning of technically gifted, he is a superb free kick taker, can finish accuretely with both legs, etc. there is nothing he can't do, technique wise, yet doesnt get a single mention, but someone like Schiaffino or Puskas does.. Just as i expected when i opened the thread, the list is turning into yet another "his legacy makes him..", "people, of that time, thought he was.." (backed up with 4 minutes highlight reel) bullshit. And i believe it has to be said that crazy dribbling skills, by itself, are not necessarly down to technical giftness, but rather quick feet, body balance and flair. There are many cases in which amazing drbblers dont have a supreme ball control... just sayin. Another thing is that i would refrain from mentioning players like Bergkamp who had classy technical skills, but lacked intensity in their movement. It's one thing to produce technical skill on the spot and another to do it at full speed.
Bergkamp shows great technique at high speed as well, he just wasn't very fast in the '00s lol A classic example is: And of course: Compare that to these goals where Henry was running at defense at a much higher speed: Would you say the latter requires more technique? Take the Bergkamp goal against Argentina. The ball was travelling at high speed in the air, the beauty of the technique was he was able to slow it down and get it under his control, while also taking the defender out of the game.
Yes, he was very fast in the first half of the 1990s (until his injuries at Inter I'd say). See on youtube the compilations of him in the 1992 UEFA Cup final, the euro 1992 semi final (vs Denmark) or 1994 vs Borussia Dortmund. Same for Laudrup in the first half of his career. Laudrup was until 1991 fast, next to his many actions and high action frequency in a match. By the mid 1990s he had lost a chunk of his speed but was still a fantastic player at his best mood and when used well. I am not sure about Schiaffino but for Puskas there's enough material (things like the 1959 semi final vs Nice, where Di Stefano didn't play in) to get an impression. For Schiaffino it is (even) harder. I think there is enough and diverse material to get an idea on where Puskas stands against his peers. Neymar is theoretically and in practice one of the very best players in the world, but technically he is far removed from prime Ibrahimovic (~2007 - 2009). 'PES Stats' rates Neymar his technique on 90, and that despite the usual 'Brazil bonus' so to speak.
My point is that simply because he was not particularly quick and agile, he gets thrown out of conversation. I would compare that to something like a player with an incredible heading skills, but 165cm tall. It doesnt matter how accurately you can head the ball, youll never be in a conversation for the best headers. Analogously, it doesn't matter how well you can control ball, if your lack of speed doesn't allow you to be as effective as your competition. It really matters IMO. Also dont confuse Bergkamps ingeniuty in Newcastles goal with technical skills per se. ..and although Henry's solo goals are amazing, i dont think they are testimonial to a great technical skill, but something else. This is much better example:
@Sexy Beast I still don’t understand how you ranked Isco as a top 10 technician. Usually we agree on almost every single thing, but I’m surprised you have him so high.
Isco will never be as good as Cruyff, Messi, Ronaldinho, Maradona etc in terms of technical skills because so far he hasn’t done anything remotely close to their level. Hazard is overrated player, but I do have him above Isco in terms of dribbling whereas Neymar is a superior technician compared to someone like Isco. In fact, Thiago Alcantara and Marco Verratti are comparable to Isco in dribbling and close ball control.
In no order. Maradona Messi Ronaldo Ronaldihno Zidane Cruyff Baggio Pele Laudrup DiStefano Honorable mentions Zola, Bergkamp, Van Basten, Zico
It's not so much about what he does (because that determines him as a player in overal, and as such he won't reach players you mentioned), but about what he is, and he is unbelievably comofortable with ball in his feet.. i mean, just watch him play, his connection with ball is so smooth, fluid, elegant. He is capable of moving in either direction while his body stays in a perfect harmony with the ball (seen in all those seemingly effortless roulettes, sombreros and etc.). It's nothing like Thiago and Verratti, he is producing that aura of a great technician every time he steps onto the field, unlike those guys, especially Verratti..
Why not? I can’t say I watched him play but I’ve read enought about him and what others have said about him for me to include him on that list. On the other hand Isco top ten most technically gifted player is one that has almost everyone here scratching their heads.
I've seen Di Stefano play a bit, although it's not possible to watch a lot of his games (1960 European Cup Final can be seen in full for example, and his 1959 game in France in the semis). From what I've seen, I'd consider top 10 first touch (to control the ball, and to play the ball including first time shots and sometimes things like back-heel volleys into the goal from the edge of the box.....but even perhaps just in terms of controlling the ball even if picking a top 10 for that seems an even harder task and to judge consistency more games would really be needed). For this topic, having not actually put Pele in my 10, I don't think I'd really consider Di Stefano. It seemed a bit harsh but some old-timer (Argentine IIRC) was quoted on the Pele dribbling thread as saying Di Stefano was like a predator with chances but not technically like Pele, and though it's not all due to ball control itself but sometimes flair and imagination etc I do think it seems like Pele was more expansive and unpredictable etc and probably did use more intricate individual tricks and skills etc at times too.
Balls were much heavier back then (as far as i know) therefore they were much easier to control with a first touch.. and that's just physics, indisputable. Did you take that in consideration while watching it? probably not...