Is Zico the best Brazilian Footballer? (Pele not included)

Discussion in 'Brazil' started by Mibu Clan, Jul 24, 2006.

  1. aj2lagop

    aj2lagop Member

    Mar 3, 2005
    Miami and Wash D.C.
    Romario (especially now that he approaches 1000 goals), Ronaldo, then Zico
     
  2. Ronaldooooo!

    Ronaldooooo! O Fenomeno

    Mar 23, 2006
    Ronaldo does all the above exept that i don't really know about him being a leader. And Ronaldinho, I provided you with the link to the article. So i'm not the only one who think that.
     
  3. ronaldinh010

    ronaldinh010 New Member

    Jul 5, 2005
    Detroit, MI
    I expect any seasoned sports fan to see past intellectual ineptitude and recognize B.S articles even when it's in favor of one's favorite player. Everything the article said was based on Ronaldo's 15 goals. Ronaldo has Pele beat when it comes to the biggest stage. How so? Well, he got 15 goals which is 3 more than Pele. Do I really have to point out how idiotic that is? There are better arguments for Ronaldo than that one. You gotta do better than that.


    Someone asked about Pele's skill on dead balls. well, yes. He was very skillfull on the dead ball. Better than Zico? I don't know. I reserve comments on Zico until I can review a video summary of his career. I do remember him, however, costing Brazil a WC. BTW: he has no excuse for not having won a WC. He did have good team and again, it was his fault that Brazil didn't advane in 86. Period. He had his chance, he missed it. That much I remember.

    Romario: I don't know, but I dont remember him as a one-dimensional pure scorer and nothing else. The man was incredibly skilled. I can't really think of many players who had his soft touch, his use of tight spaces with the ball, taking on defenders in the box, etc... Romario chose to play in and around the box most of his career, but one could see that he had the skill of a midfielder when he had the ball. He's no Adriano or some of the European strikers. Romario had skills to do whatever he wanted with the ball. I'd venture to say he had more skills than ronaldo on dead balls. Ronaldo's skill was really running into space with speed, etc.. That's just my recollection. He too would have likely or quite possibly broken that goal record. His is a sad story for me. Imagine a Romario as hero to Brazil's 5th title in 98 pivotal to yet another victory in 02. Tell me if he wouldn't be in the conversations of the Peles and Maradonas of this world. He's lucky if he's even named with the likes of Cruyff and Platini. Imagine if he was given the chance that Ronaldo got to come back in 02 and and yet another come back in 06. In a way, that man made Brazil relevant again. He brought the respect back. Funny how he barely even gets credit for 94. Please pay him some lip service. At least for my sake. His story should be taught in classes. How likability and attitude problems can take away one's deserved honor and credit.
     
  4. aj2lagop

    aj2lagop Member

    Mar 3, 2005
    Miami and Wash D.C.
    I am a die hard Romario fan. Where Romario goes, so go I...Miami FC all the way!!! He scored two goals last night by the way!!! Plus haing Romario partying in South Beach will be a boost to the night club scene here in Miami. He might not be able to be a good teacher on how to come to practice on time, but he can certainly teach the youth of Miami how to party like ...well..how to party like a Romario!!!!

    Romario restored Brasil to its greatness!!! Brasil had been going through a very rough dry spell until 94. How many goals did Romario have in 94?? I think he had at least 8 goals. That is a stellar performance. It is proven that Romario should have been on the 98 team. He was screwed by politics of Tixiera's CBF!!! Youre saying after being the leading scorer in 1994 he could not contribute in 1998??? What about 2002??? His numbers in Brasil in the last few years for both Fluminese and Vasco have been better than any of the young talent that has come out of Brasil domestically. If I am not mistaken, didn't Romario have more goals than Robinho before he left for Europe???

    Listen, as far as his attitude, he is an elite goal scorer. Many elite goal scorers have this primadonna thing. You cannot teach the kids how to have that fire that makes you an elite finisher. Romario just has it. He still does.

    It comes with the territory. And Brasil has never had a shortage of primadonnas. If I recall, and even bigger pain in the a** was Bebeto!! :D
     
  5. Denilson70

    Denilson70 Member

    May 29, 2001
    England

    I notice that you do not mention heading ability!!
     
  6. Denilson70

    Denilson70 Member

    May 29, 2001
    England

    An in parts ridiculous post! He scoreed 5 not 8 in 1994. So, if you are good in 1994, you MUST BE good in 1998?! OK, good newsfor Cafu playing his 5th Copa in 2010 at 40!! Romario was injured and cut from the squad on the eve of the 1998 tornament, typically he blamed Zico and Zagalo.
     
  7. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    C'mon man. Zico could create, give mesmarizing passes, and hit foul shots a lot better than Ronaldo. There is no question about that.
     
  8. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    But Pele' won 2 World Cups to Ronaldo's 1. And he participated in the first 2 games of 62. So it's not clear from that aspect. I mentioned before, Pele' played less games and his goals per game average is better. Not to mention the fact that team did not play solely for him as was more the case with Ronaldo.

    Well, while missing the PK was big, he was the one who gave the perfect pass for Branco to get the PK. He did convert the PK in the shootout while Platini missed. So it happens. I remember Ronaldo missing 2 golden goal scoring opportunities in 02 in front of Kahn in the first half. But he got the breaks later in the game. It happens. Winning the World Cup is not only about being good. It takes some luck as well.

    As far as foul shots are concerned. Zico was the best of the three. I have no doubts.
     
  9. leonidas

    leonidas Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    May 25, 2005
    NYC
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    hell, even romario was a better header than ronaldo and he was like 6 inches shorter. just look at that game winning goal against the towering swedes in 94!
     
  10. Denilson70

    Denilson70 Member

    May 29, 2001
    England
    I actually meant Ronaldo's heading ability.

    Romario was good at that - and Pele much better than him at this aspect.

    What has this got to do with Zico though?
     
  11. XaviandXabi

    XaviandXabi Member

    May 4, 2005
    CT
    pretty much just decribed Rivaldo perfectly with that list
     
  12. aj2lagop

    aj2lagop Member

    Mar 3, 2005
    Miami and Wash D.C.

    Ok. But Romario did net # 6 with the penalties in the final.

    And as far as Romario being injured, we all know that was P.R. bull...I DO blame that dired up old fossil Zagalo!!!
     
  13. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Apr 19, 1999
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    No, because those don't count as goals.
    It was not PR bull.
     
  14. ronaldinh010

    ronaldinh010 New Member

    Jul 5, 2005
    Detroit, MI
    c'mmon guys. don't give me that Romario was injured bullcrap. Who are you kidding. Was ronaldo healthy in this past WC. He was recovering from injury even in 02. Zico is the biggest hyppocrite if he can honestly cite Romario's injury as reason to keep him off the squad. The guy couldn't even play a full 90 minutes in 86. They screwed Romario and we all know it. End of story. Look at how England brought Rooney to this WC, Beckham in 02, etc... I am far from a conspircacy theorist, but it almost seem like there's a concerted effort to eclipse the man's contribution and importance day by day. Ronaldooo has a point. Sometimes Brazilians puzzle me. Romario is Maradona in the wrong country. Only in Brazilian football can a guy do so much for his NT and taken so forgranted.
     
  15. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Because a lot of us never liked his ego and attitude no matter how good he was. After a while, it wears off and you start hating the player. You can't compare the Rooney situation with Romario. We didn't have to risk it at that time. England had no many other good options. We had Ronaldo at his peak and Bebeto as a supporter with Edmundo and Denilson on the bench. Romario was also a distraction because of his primadonna personality. So it probably wasn't the toughest decision.
     
  16. Denilson70

    Denilson70 Member

    May 29, 2001
    England
    How old are you?!! Aren't you being a bit juvenile including a penalty shoot out?
     
  17. Denilson70

    Denilson70 Member

    May 29, 2001
    England
    ..so Zagalo picks him for the squad only to not pick him?!! Why pick him in the first place? Your argument is flawed.
     
  18. Denilson70

    Denilson70 Member

    May 29, 2001
    England
    Well done, celito. Sometimes I think I am the only one who can see negative things about Romario (after acknowledging his brilliance)
     
  19. ELADO

    ELADO New Member

    Aug 9, 2005
    washington dc usa
    but we lost coz we didnt have romario period! ronaldo was at his peak but he wasnt mentally tuff enuff like romario to carry the team and this was revealed the night before the finals when the pressure got to him! come to think of it ronaldo did not have a great wc98! if it wasnt for rivaldo the selecao will not have made it to the finals! bebeto was awful in that world cup! well the decision to keep romario came back to haunt the selecao in the finals because if romario was there ronaldo would not have collapsed under pressure like he did because romario would have taken the pressure off ronaldo and he would have performed better or even if ronaldo did collapse, we had romario and some other person who was fit to play because ronaldo was clearly not fit and the selecao played with 10 men!the loss in wc98 validified romarios importance in my book coz we lost because we didnt have romario period!.

    nothing wrong with romarios attitude! he is great because of that attitude!he is fearless and because of his attitude he promised and delivered a world cup victory after 24 years! zico did not do that! romario reins forever! i might be biased because he is my fave playa of all time but i think i am right on!
     
  20. 621380

    621380 Member

    Feb 21, 2004
    germany
    the only team who has played with 10 men was france in the last 18 minutes of the final and france still scored 1 goalmore than brasil.., the 3:0 ..rivaldo and others was relativ invisible too in this game..maybe ronaldo had a short time seizure 1 day before the final..in a interview few weeks ago shown on german tv he has confirmed that he was sick first but he was healthy in the final...after the defeat this story was blewed up..so his words....romario in the 1994 final wasnt good enough to score a goal in 120 minutes against italy and baggio wasnt fit at all for team italy maybe too.....every story has 2 sides..france 1998 wasnt chile or marrocco 1998...
     
  21. Thebigshow

    Thebigshow Red Card

    Jul 25, 2006
    Zico was the best Brazilian even counting Pele.
     
  22. Thebigshow

    Thebigshow Red Card

    Jul 25, 2006
    1. Zico
    2. Pele
    3. Garrincha
    4. Didi

    I'm not even sure I'd put Ronaldo in the top 5.
     
  23. ELADO

    ELADO New Member

    Aug 9, 2005
    washington dc usa
    read the title guy! it says pele not included meaning its a concesus that he is untouchable, the greatest! hows that!:confused:
     
  24. ELADO

    ELADO New Member

    Aug 9, 2005
    washington dc usa
    i beg to differ that ronaldo was fit! yeah he said he was fit but he wasnt! come on man how can a person have a seizure and be effective less than 10 hours before an important game like a wc final, the ronaldo during the final was a shadow of the ronaldo who dominted that period in soccer.all this happened because of the pressure he shouldered because the hype of that world cup on ronaldo was like it was ronaldo against the world not brasil agains the world and that was too much for a 21yr old to handle, i bet you that many non brasilians or selecao fansor pure soccer fans could not name the other 10 players on the brasilian side that day! in that sense romario was needed to take that pressure off the team!

    in the final against france you could see the whole team was still affected by the frightful incident that happened to ronaldo the night before, they played without spirit, no flair at all, they depended too much on ronaldo and i bet after the incident the night before and the way ronaldo looked on the pitch theteam kinda subconciously felt defeated which manifested in the way they played that day! poor!\

    romario scoring 5 goals was named player of the tournament! yeah it was a tuff final but he gave the italian defence trouble all day long! he was electric but dont you think that his offensive playby romario and co. help brasils defence by keeping the ball away often from brasils side?i think so!
     
  25. Thebigshow

    Thebigshow Red Card

    Jul 25, 2006
    Wrong and totally ignorant of reality. That's how.
     

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