Is Zico the best Brazilian Footballer? (Pele not included)

Discussion in 'Brazil' started by Mibu Clan, Jul 24, 2006.

  1. Mibu Clan

    Mibu Clan New Member

    Jul 4, 2006
    Bogota
    Not considering Pele (For obvious reasons) is Zico the best there ever was?

    Ive seen little of him but he seems to have the greatest Field vision, technique, pass, Free Kick... etc.

    So I ask to those whove seen him, is he the best after Pele or is there someone else...
     
  2. Denilson70

    Denilson70 Member

    May 29, 2001
    England
    A brilliant player. Unfortunate to be playing with a certain number 9 in 1982 rather than a very good one (Careca)- would have probably been a world cup winner otherwise. Absolutely top class player and a worth entry into the 'craque' category of players.
     
  3. mak9

    mak9 Member

    May 21, 2005
    Toronto, Canada
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    IMO it goes

    Ronaldo, Grancha, Pele, Zico
     
  4. arun10

    arun10 Member

    May 31, 2005
    I have not seen Pele ..

    But ZICO was one of the greatest and unfortunate not to win a world cup.

    Only very few players who are considered legends or greatest players without winning a worldcup.
    Most important players of that category are Zico and Platini.They did not need a worldcup medal to show the world what they are.
    Zico played at a time when there was no media coverage or internet revolution like these.
    But he was an icon of Brazilian football during the late 70s and 80s.He made Flemengo famous across the globe.Even in far flunged or godforsaken places you can still see " zico football clubs" ," zico sports shops " etc.I have seen this in remote places in Africa and Asia.After Pele ,he was the one who carrried the Brazilian football to the greatest heights.He is one of the greatest players who was instrumental in making Brazilian football the most admired across the globe.

    He was a midfielder who consistently scored goals like a forward also providing the great assist all the time.Not to mention about the deadly free kicks and leathal left foot.

    In my opinion he was equal to or above Maradona.
     
    Louis Soccer repped this.
  5. leonidas

    leonidas Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2005
    NYC
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    garrincha, according to most pundits (and myself and some other big soccer brazilians), would go second. if you ask a flamengo supporter, he'd say zico is better than pele.
     
  6. Ronaldooooo!

    Ronaldooooo! O Fenomeno

    Mar 23, 2006
    Ronaldo is........look at his accomplishements. nuff said.
     
  7. celito

    celito Member+

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    IMO, Zico is the 2nd best Brazilian ever. Somewhat like Pele' he was a very complete player. He could pass long and short, dribble, shoot, take foul kicks all at the highest level. In Brazil they called him the white Pele'. That says it all.

    Ronaldo and Romario are great. But IMO, there is no gem bigger than an attacking creative midfielder that can score goals and create them.
     
  8. Ronaldooooo!

    Ronaldooooo! O Fenomeno

    Mar 23, 2006
    Please list me Zico's accompishements and compare them to Ronaldo.

    Ronaldo blows Zico out of the water. No comparison. The stuff Ronaldo did in his prime Zico would dream of.

    I dunno about you Brazilians (i respect most of you guys here) but some of your great players aren't thought of highly outside your forums. Nobody in their right mind would say that Zico is better than Ronaldo except Brazilian fans and few outsiders.
     
  9. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    lol, I wouldn't go that far, but he is pretty close.:D

    But seriously, I agree with Celito. Garrincha is up there too. If he isn't over Zico, he is right after him.
     
  10. ELADO

    ELADO New Member

    Aug 9, 2005
    washington dc usa
    geez come on not you again!! zico was much better than ronaldo however its garrincha after pele! pele, garrincha,zico.romario, rivaldo. ronaldo[ronaldinho.. his possition on that lis still to be determined coz he has not done enuff yet]
     
  11. ELADO

    ELADO New Member

    Aug 9, 2005
    washington dc usa
    get atta here with you uninformed, biased, fanboys posts! jesssuzzzzzzzzzz enuff alreadywith thi shite of yours yo!. we need level headed, objective posts not fanboy obssesive posts aiiit dude! i bet you know notthing of zico and you aint even seen him play but dayumm to you ronaldo is better than him. research zico first and then compare! well.... come ti think of it Ronaldo is greater than jesus in your eyes!
     
  12. Ronaldooooo!

    Ronaldooooo! O Fenomeno

    Mar 23, 2006
    I'm not biased. Most football fans would agree with me that Ronaldo > Zico and is arguably the second best player in Brazil after Pele. You listing Rivaldo and Romario ahead of him says alot about your knowledge of the game.

    Like i said, most neutral fans would agree with me excpet Brazilians. So shut up Elado, until you present facts for Zico hes never the player Ronaldo is.
     
  13. Ronaldooooo!

    Ronaldooooo! O Fenomeno

    Mar 23, 2006
    Oh i've seen couple of thread on this very big soccer board and other forums about top 5 players pf all-time, and sadly for you Elado, Ronaldo was mostly listed as top 5 to ever play this game. I didn't see no Zico nore Garrinca (well for Garrrinca maybe once or twice) except Pele.

    So take that for what it worth. I think they biased too ha? get out of here, Bandwagnor.
     
  14. leonidas

    leonidas Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2005
    NYC
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    and since when is bigsoccer an accurate indication of what true football people think? it isnt. more than half of it is fanboys anways.

    the reason for this is that people only think of the present. they completely forget history. so they see cafu, roberto carlos, and ronaldo and because of the dominance that they SEE, they must be the greatest of all time. there are tons of other players out there that you havent seen, but we have memories and people who've seen multiple players throughout history. they are better judges than you or me...and i trust their judgement when they say that zico or garrincha is a better brazilian player than ronaldo. in fact, brazil has had several strikers of ronaldo's quality in the past. the catch is that you havent heard of them, and therein lies the difference. if youre a true historian or know something about brazilian football, you will know that people think zico and garrincha were more complete players than ronaldo. however, that doesnt take anything away from the accomplishments of ronaldo. he's still one of the greatest strikers of all time, but i dont think he's better than leonidas or or romario or friedenreich. these other players defined what brazilian football is today. without leonidas and friedenreich, brazilian football would be nothing.

    i like ronaldo and i think he's one of brazil's best players. but he's a striker and nothing else. zico was more than that. any brazilian would tell you that. maybe you just have to be brazilian to understand.
     
  15. Ronaldooooo!

    Ronaldooooo! O Fenomeno

    Mar 23, 2006
    Until now, all i see is talks. Where are the facts? What makes Zico better than Ronaldo or even whatever his name Lenoidas? Like i said, maybe in Brazil you guys rate these guys highly but the rest of the world doesn't. Sorry but thats the truth. They haven't impacted the football World like Ronaldo, its not even debatable.

    Ronaldo with all his football accomplishements is the greatest striker of all-time and only Muller can argue against that. Ronaldo will end up as top 5 to ever play this game when he retires. Yes, people actually rate him this high and its insulting for you to say there were other strikers like Ronaldo in the past. There is only one Ronaldo that this world has ever seen and we'll never ever see a player like him. True story.
     
  16. Belgian guy

    Belgian guy Member+

    Club Brugge
    Belgium
    Aug 19, 2002
    Belgium
    Club:
    Club Brugge KV
    Garrincha, Pele, Rivelino is how I would rank them. Zico is n° 4 in my book.
     
  17. ilv2

    ilv2 New Member

    May 30, 2004
    L'abbaye de Leffe
    unfortunately im a little young to have seen him play, but from videos and clips it's quite clear that he was magnificent - art, poetry, whatever you want to call it. Especially his freekicks... so effortless.

    no doubt ronnie is great, but i'd rather have zico hands down.

    *garrincha is another i would've liked to see
     
  18. arun10

    arun10 Member

    May 31, 2005
    I am from a remote place in Asia.In our place zico is considred just below Pele.
    Ronaldo is just a laugh stock for many of us.
    Romario and Rivaldo were much much better than Ronaldo.

    If Brazil has so much fans around the world it's because of the mastery and the beutifull game played by zico and company( After Pele).
    The WC teams of 98 and 2006 in which Ronaldo played actually managed to screw up the Brazilian fan base and the neutral fans who always supported brazil.
     
  19. celito

    celito Member+

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    You're right, us BRAZILIANS who have seen BOTH of them play.

    I put more emphasis on what I've seen and not on stats. But here you go:

    - Flamengo - 508 goals in 731 games (0.69)
    - Udinese - 56 goals in 79 games (0.69)
    - Kashima Antlers - 54 goals in 88 games (0.61)
    - Brazil National Team - 66 goals in 88 games (0.75)

    And he was a Midfielder !!! Not a forward ! Eventhough he played most of his life in Brazil, notice when he played in Italy, his goal average did not drop ! And he played for a smaller team. He probably has as many assists.

    Club honours
    - Rio State Championship 1972, 1974, 1978, 1979, 1979 (special), 1981, 1986
    - Brazilian Championship 1980, 1982, 1983, 1987
    - Libertadores Cup 1981
    - Intercontinental Cup 1981
    - J.League 1st Stage Championship 1993

    Individual honours
    - 1974 Brazilian Footballer of the Year - Placar Magazine (Brazil)
    - 1974 - Set a goal record in a single season as a Flamengo player - 49 goals
    - 1976 - Set a goal record in a single season as a Flamengo player - 56 goals
    - 1977 South American Footballer of the Year - El Mundo (Venezuela)
    - 1980 Brazilian Championship Top Scorer - 21 goals
    - 1981 Libertadores Cup Top Scorer - 11 goals
    - 1981 Intercontinental Cup Best Player
    - 1981 South American Footballer of the Year - El Mundo (Venezuela)
    - 1981 World Footballer of the Year - Guerin Esportivo (Italy), El Balón (Spain), El Mundo (Venezuela), Placar Magazine (Brazil)
    - 1982 World Cup Bronze Boot
    - 1982 Brazilian Championship Top Scorer - 20 goals
    - 1982 Brazilian Top Scorer of the year - 59 goals
    - 1982 Brazilian Footballer of the Year - Placar Magazine (Brazil)
    - 1982 South American Footballer of the Year - El Gráfico (Argentina), El Mundo (Venezuela)
    - 1983 Player of the Year - World Soccer Magazine (England)
    - 1984 Second highest scorer of the Italian League - 19 goals (1 less than Platini who had 6 more games)
    - 1984 Italian League Player of the Year
    - 1992 Japan Soccer League record for goals scored in consecutive matches - 11 goals in 10 straight matches
    - Top Scorer in Flamengo's History - 508 goals
     
  20. ELADO

    ELADO New Member

    Aug 9, 2005
    washington dc usa
    geez ronaldoooooooooo! i thought we were boizzz! the fact that we dont agree dont mean we should insult each othere right? chillout! love Ronaldo dont get me wrong but if you watched Zico play , or romario you wouldnt be saying stuff like you just did!! its just a fair point of view! how i see it! peace!!!
     
  21. leonidas

    leonidas Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2005
    NYC
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    look them up yourself man. they've been discussed here multiple times. if you're so interested, actually google them. dont expect people to spoon-feed you all these facts. zico's have already been spoon-fed to you. go look up the other guys then and read about them.

    no, the rest of the world rates zico higher too. and garrincha. i was talking about educated, illuminated fans. not fanboys. fanboys rate ronaldo higher than mother teresa.

    and it isnt insulting. what's insulting is people only having looked at one player and then saying, well, that guy must be the best ever. better than pele etc. better than all the players who won for brazil. trust me. if you told ronaldo that he was up there with leonidas and friedenreich, he would be honored, not insulted.
     
  22. ELADO

    ELADO New Member

    Aug 9, 2005
    washington dc usa
    i think its laughable for you guys to consider Rinaldo a laffing stock. the man was one of a kind in his heyday! he was just amazing and magical too watch. incredibly talented beyond belief! how can you consider a man who came back from 2 killer knee injuries back to back a laffing stock? how can you consider him a laffing stock after being named FPOY 3 times and what he did in wc06. yes his motivation is and minor aches and pains both physically and emotional are the reasons he is what he is now but the incredible talent is still there! all he needs is the right guidance and he just might be back almost to his peak form!
     
  23. Ronaldooooo!

    Ronaldooooo! O Fenomeno

    Mar 23, 2006
    Sorry Elado, my bad. you know i don't know my brotha when it comes to Ronaldo.:D
     
  24. Ronaldooooo!

    Ronaldooooo! O Fenomeno

    Mar 23, 2006
    Ronaldo

    Personal honours:

    # FIFA World Player of the Year: 1996 (youngest winner), 1997, 2002
    # European Footballer of the Year (Ballon d'Or): 1997, 2002
    # UEFA Most Valuable Player - 1998
    # BBC Sports Personality of the Year Overseas Personality: 2002
    # FIFA World Cup

    * 2006 All-Time World Cup Goalscorer - 15 Goals
    * 2006 Bronze Boot - Third Top Scorer 3 goals & 1 assist in 5 games
    * 2002 Golden Boot - Top Scorer 8 goals
    * 2002 Silver Ball - 2nd Best Player
    * 2002 Winner
    * 1998 Golden Ball - Best Player

    International Career

    *Copa América: 1997, 1999
    *Confederations Cup: 1997
    *World up 2002
    * 1998 Runner-up
    * 1994 Winner

    Club accomplishements

    # UEFA Cup: Internazionale 1998
    # Intercontinental Cup: Real Madrid 2002
    # European Super Cup: Real Madrid 2002
    # La Liga - Primera División champions: Real Madrid 2002/2003
    # Spanish Super Cup: FC Barcelona 1996, Real Madrid 2003
    # Brazilian Cup: Cruzeiro 1993
    # Dutch Cup: PSV Eindhoven 1996
    # Cup Winners' Cup: FC Barcelona 1997


    Cruzeiro EC 58 goals in 60 matches (.96)
    PSV Indihovan 55 goals in 56 matches (.98)
    Inter Millan 50 goals in 66 matches (.75)
    Barcelona 47 goals in 49 matches ( .95)
    Real Madrid 114 goals in 181 mathes (.62)

    Brazil 71 goals in 110 matches (.64)

    Let me remind you that most of those Zico stats are from Brazil. His career is all in Brazil. While Ronaldo played in Brazil and also Europe. Ronaldo's achievements as you can see yourself is greater than Zico. End of discussion.
     
  25. Ronaldooooo!

    Ronaldooooo! O Fenomeno

    Mar 23, 2006
    Has Zico even won the World Cup? I don't think so.

    Like i said, there is no comparison here. Ronaldo is just plain and simple better in all catagories.
     

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