Is the NASL dead?

Discussion in 'NASL' started by Rick O'Shea, Aug 31, 2010.

  1. Rick O'Shea

    Rick O'Shea Member

    Aug 19, 2008
    Most of the clubs seem to be struggling fiancially as it appears fans are reluctant to support D2 clubs. The only exceptions are those clubs moving to MLS shortly. The only viable way forward seems to be for the surviving clubs to merge with the proposed MLS reserve league to give them the stability and numbers they need. Potentially, there are some very good clubs, for example, the Tampa Bay Rowdies who would probably do spectacularly well if they could get the financial backing to move to MLS proper. One only has to look at the difference in support Toronto received as soon as they moved to D1. Let's hope for all concerned that a deal can be worked out as I cannot see how NASL can continue in it's current form.
     
  2. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The only ones that are struggling are CPB and St. Louis... But then, the situation in CPB and St. Louis is why USSF put in their new D2 regulations which in the end will be a good thing for D2. It sounds like USL is pulling out of D2, so that would leave NASL as the only league teams can be in if they want to be in D2...
     
  3. Mikey mouse

    Mikey mouse Member

    Jul 27, 1999
    Charleston, SC
    Club:
    Charleston
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    and Minnesota unless they can attract an investor.

    And Carolina is looking for investors as well. Not a great indicator for either club.

    Miami nearly went under last season and would have if it wasnt for the efforts of a few of their fans. Traffic wasnt happy about attendence then and I dont know what would have changed that now.

    It will be an interesting off season that is for sure.
     
  4. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This press release from NSC is certainly not promising about their future in D2, but there's still quite a bit of time for them to find an investor. Carolina is looking for new investors, but their current ownership group still meets the new D2 requirements and one of the reasons they were looking for a new investor is that Young wanted to start a D2 team in Hamilton, but that fell through.

    As far as Miami, Traffic is one of the more involved ownership groups and have no one but themselves to blame for their crappy attendance. I really don't see them going anywhere in the near future.

    Additionally, Austin is going to need to end up somewhere now that USL is pulling out of D2, Edmonton is coming in and meets the new D2 requirements. FCNY and Orlando are supposedly still coming in, but I wouldn't count on them. Not to mention Vancouver and Montreal both wanting to leave behind a D2 presence. Next year's D2 would be:

    For sure
    1. Montreal (Gone in 2012)
    2. Rochester
    3. Austin
    4. Carolina
    5. Miami
    6. Tampa
    7. Edmonton

    Maybe, but unlikely
    1. AC St. Louis (meets financial requirements, but depends on Cooper getting over the perceived disrespect he got from USSF and NASL)
    2. Minnesota (Need investor, but swirling the bowl in meeting requirements)
    3. Puerto Rico (Doesn't meet financial requirements and are reportedly annoyed about them as well, might drop to D3)

    Believe it when you see it
    1. FCNY (Third year where they're supposedly in the queue? But at least they sound hopeful in landing somewhere this year)
    2. Orlando (MLL team folded and if you can't support a MLL team, can you really support a D2 soccer team?)

    Gone
    1. Portland (MLS)
    2. Vancouver (MLS)
    3. CPB (Folding)

    Obviously USSF is requiring 8 teams to make a D2 and I've only listed 7 "for sures", but if any of the "Maybe"'s and "Believe it"'s are able to get in, NASL still has a chance.
     
  5. wellington

    wellington Member

    Jun 4, 1999
    Charlotte, NC
    Club:
    Charlotte
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Sadly, Minnesota may end up in PDL. They would be a great D3 club. However, even if Minnesota can afford the travel, it will put too much strain on the other D3 clubs. Another option is to move some of the PDL teams up to D3 and create a D3 Central Division (Des Moines, Thunder Bay, Rochester (MN), Michigan Bucks, St. Louis Lions). That would be the demize (pun intended) of the PDL Heartland Division -- where would that leave Real Colorado, KC Brass, Springfield? That is the only viable option that I see for Minnesota at this point.

    USL PRO CHAMPIONSHIP
    CENTRAL DIVISION

    Des Moines Menace
    Michigan Bucks
    NSC Minnesota Stars
    Rochester Thunder
    St. Louis Lions
    Thunder Bay Chill

    Future Expansion: Winnipeg, Omaha, Milwaukee
     
  6. TBR

    TBR Member

    Mar 15, 2007
    DMV
    Club:
    CD Aguila
    Nat'l Team:
    El Salvador
    Definitely.
     
  7. drSoFlaFan

    drSoFlaFan DEFEND THE FORT!

    Feb 25, 2008
    Plantation, FL
    Club:
    Ft Lauderdale Strikers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well Miami is planning to play next year as the reborn Strikers. Considering Traffic is the main force behind the NASL, I think the league will continue on. They'll get one of the "maybe" teams in and get sanctioned. I wouldn't be surprised to see St. Louis AND PR make the cut in the end.

    I do think a real possibility in the next few years is the hybrid MLS Reserve League/NASL scenario. Get enough MLS teams to enter D2 reserve sides and then you can regionalize the schedule to East/West and make it much more economically stable operation.
     
  8. wellington

    wellington Member

    Jun 4, 1999
    Charlotte, NC
    Club:
    Charlotte
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    That's probably the only hope for a viable, coast-to-coast division 2 league. Without deep pockets and MLS support, it will be really difficult.
     
  9. aimorris

    aimorris Member

    May 2, 2007
    Orlando, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  10. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's awesome news about PRI. It would have been a shame if they had to go down to D3 or play in the PR league.

    No Austin though. That's unfortunate.
     
  11. Mikey mouse

    Mikey mouse Member

    Jul 27, 1999
    Charleston, SC
    Club:
    Charleston
    Nat'l Team:
    United States


    so those teams are Carolina, Puerto Rico, Montreal, FC Tampa Bay, Miami FC, Rochester, NSC Minnesota, Crystal Palace Baltimore, AC St. Louis and expansion franchise FC Edmonton.

    AC STL, NSC Minnesota, CPB; not the most confident building of sides. PR not meeting the ownership requirments. TB doesnt meet the stadium requirements as of now, though I know they are "talking" about building one.

    USSF set all these standards thinking of the "long run and stability" Montreal won't be around after next season so I wonder how USSF views them.

    I would say it is still alive but it looks like they might be setting up hospice visits soon.
     
  12. jcm28

    jcm28 Member

    Apr 12, 2009
    Puerto Rico
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Puerto Rico
    Im so glad that we (PRI) have joined the NASL. You guys have no idea. Its a shame that Austin is not in there, because they really have the potential to be a great D2 club.
     
  13. drSoFlaFan

    drSoFlaFan DEFEND THE FORT!

    Feb 25, 2008
    Plantation, FL
    Club:
    Ft Lauderdale Strikers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Great news about PR. Also positive that Baltimore, St. Louis and Minnesota are at least planning to keep trying despite the financial issues. I'd imagine NASL will get the waivers they want, at lest enough to get to 8 teams and have the league.

    Interesting about Austin though. You'd think they'd finally say "Okay let's go with NASL". But to remain loyal to USL now, as the only D2 team on that side, is odd. Maybe they are just waiting for NASL to get sanctioning. I'd hate to see them drop down or fold, seeing as they have been a fairly successful addition to D2.
     
  14. Mikey mouse

    Mikey mouse Member

    Jul 27, 1999
    Charleston, SC
    Club:
    Charleston
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    wouldnt it be great if we actually got an update from NASL instead of a blog from some guy in NC?
     
  15. TetsuoShima

    TetsuoShima New Member

    Jun 9, 2005
    St. louis Metro East
    Club:
    St. Louis Lions
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ok it must be going over my head. But what the heck is this? extend into two time zones?

     
  16. Mikey mouse

    Mikey mouse Member

    Jul 27, 1999
    Charleston, SC
    Club:
    Charleston
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    part of being a "nation wide league" by ensuring a team in each of the three times zones (by 2012 I think).
     
  17. TetsuoShima

    TetsuoShima New Member

    Jun 9, 2005
    St. louis Metro East
    Club:
    St. Louis Lions
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So it should of read the NASL would need a waiver for it? Instead of sounding like the team would need the waiver? Teams can't really help where they are located.. hehe What would the waiver be request be? "oh sorry we aren't in mountain or pacific time.. puwease give us a waiver to play for being in the central?" lol

    Edit: But umm actually St. louis and Minnesota would be giving the NASL the 2 time zones needed.. Since they are the only ones in the Central time and the rest are eastern.. so seems like they wouldn't need a waiver at all.. o_O
     
  18. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    That makes no sense.

    D3 (USL2) and PDL are not really in the same pyramid. The PDL (and MPSL) is a college summer league for amateurs. There is no player payroll whatsoever.

    USL2 is a professional soccer league.

    Teams that are in the PDL are there for a reason. And those reasons are primarily financial.

    You think the financial gap between USSF-D2 and MLS teams is big? Proportionally, the gap between PDL and USL2 dwarfs it.
     
  19. Mikey mouse

    Mikey mouse Member

    Jul 27, 1999
    Charleston, SC
    Club:
    Charleston
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    yeah Im not sold that St. Louis is coming back (cooper burned alot of bridges) and if Minn. doesnt find an investor that doesnt leave much east of .

    FC Edmonton has got to be Mountain time zone though and roughly 1000 miles from their closest competitor
     
  20. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    I'm not sure how "positive" it is. Their inclusion almost smacks of a desperate negotiation tactic: "Look at all these teams, you can't deny all of them."

    What I do consider "positive" is that they seem to have six teams that do meet the new USSF standards, which might just be a high water mark in D2 history. :) - especially with Portland and Vancouver leaving.

    The continued defections to MLS will only continue to ramp up the pressure. I think we're in the end game of a completely independent second division. MLS involvement is inevitable. The only real questions are when, and how much.

    The only reason that minor league baseball is as successful today as it is is due largely from the large costs that are borne by the major league team and not the minor league affiliate. The minor league system was on the verge of total collapse in the mid-70s before the current structure was codified.

    I'm not calling for a stratified farm system like baseball, just using it as an example. A better example for soccer would be what we see in hockey where the AHL and ECHL are a mix of independent teams and teams with affiliations with one or two NHL clubs that cover player and coaching salaries.
     
  21. wellington

    wellington Member

    Jun 4, 1999
    Charlotte, NC
    Club:
    Charlotte
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Makes no sense? What about PDL-Pro (i.e. Thunder Bay)? Do these teams have a payroll? Even in USL2, I cannot imagine that teams like Real Maryland FC and the Pittsburgh Riverhounds would have huge player budgets for that matter. These D3 teams are not too far afield from a solid PDL franchise. I'm sure even Charlotte's budget is relatively modest. Is it an issue? Sure, but not a big issue. Plus PDL teams like the Michigan Bucks and St. Louis Lions have hinted at wanting to move up, so it isn't too much of stretch. This would give them a chance to do it.
    That is a valid point. Up to this point, most ambitious PDL teams in the Midwest have never had a realistic chance or incentive to move up. A big factor is travel. However, a situation where these teams could continue playing a regional schedule would open the door. They would only play teams in the other D3 divisions in the post-season. So, travel would not be a big issue.
    Sure. Not all of the teams that I proposed would go for it. Would Minnesota be the big fish in a small pond. Probably, but this past season with an average attendance around 1500 they would not necessarily dominate financially; Des Moines averages over 3000. Michigan has solid support.

    The only other option outside of Minnesota staying in NASL and lose a ton of cash or drop down to PDL and be a PDL or PDL-Pro team. Maybe the latter is the best option.
     
  22. VioletCrown

    VioletCrown Member+

    FC Dallas
    United States
    Aug 30, 2000
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    PR also, if that's the list of teams, doesn't meet the 'in the US' requirements. According to the standards, if there are three non-US teams in the league, the league needs to be at least 12 teams. The above list is only 10, so if PR is going to be allowed in, they'll need waivers under two rules.

    TB actually *does* meet the stadium standards. The standards only require 100 x 70 yards wide, 5000 capacity. Their stadium meets those standards.

    Nevertheless, we have the same situation that we had when the standards came out.

    Meet the standards: Carolina, Montreal, Rochester, Tampa Bay, Miami.
    Need waivers: Edmonton (stadium is < 5k capacity), PR (ownership, non-US), St. Louis (ownership not sufficiently liquid), Baltimore (ownership), Minnesota (ownership).

    As much positivity that Wellman is spouting in that article, I don't see the USSF granting that many ownership waivers. I think everyone's pretty certain that Baltimore is on its last legs, and is more likely to fold that go back to USL Pro, let alone be part of this. And it's frankly embarrassing that Wellman included them. Minnesota is being very open about their issues, and unless someone appears in the next two weeks, they're not likely to stay on the application.

    Really, at the moment, this looks borderline desperate.
     
  23. chapka

    chapka Member+

    May 18, 2004
    Haverford, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If you mean "has a chance to be approved for Division 2 status," I agree with you. If you mean "has a chance to survive as a league," is it really an issue?

    Assuming the NASL puts on the best league it can next year, are the fans of the individual teams really going to care that much whether the league is certified as D-2 or D-3 by USSF? They can keep working towards D-2 but why is it necessary to get it this year?

    A seven-team NASL could still play a full, sanctioned season next year as long as they met or had waived the 75% US requirement. They'd just have to do it as a second D3 league instead of as a D2 league. This might affect their Open Cup seeding but it seems unlikely to affect much else from a practical perspective. Are there non-marketing benefits to D2 status I'm not aware of?
     
  24. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    Does anyone know the backstory on Austin not staying second division?

    Competitively, they seem to be doing very well in D2/NASL/USL-1/A-League. I have no idea what their books are but I know their owner is pretty well off so I imagine he can continue to afford to be second division.

    If they don't move up, would they try to go third division and endure all those travel costs or would the go the PDL route? Or just close shop?
     
  25. Mikey mouse

    Mikey mouse Member

    Jul 27, 1999
    Charleston, SC
    Club:
    Charleston
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    we havent heard anything "official yet. the only thing everyone is going right now is a short peice from a blogger in NC. Nothing from any of the teams, nothing from NASL, nothing from USSF and nothing on any of the other sites. Even Puerto Rico is still on the USL website ;)

    Im with Andy on this one, this seems as it is a negotiation tactic. It least sets the tone and foundation for negotiations.

    I imagine Brian at IMS (which has been great with his coverage) is working on something right now....
     

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