I wasn't just talking about CWC participants. "Best of the best" is mostly about the UEFA CL participants. I don't think anyone who merits the CWC is ever talking about it in isolation. The fact that you need to win the CL to make it to the CWC semis, coupled with the trophy's meaning, is what makes it prestigious and difficult.
The CWC is a tournament featuring the best of the best of each continent. That factor is prestigious enough to consider it the hardest title one could win. That is why the Intercontinental Cup was deemed by FIFA, from the very get-go, as a friendly competition between two confederations, no different than the Asian-African Championship and the Interamerican Cup. The happenings during the late 1960s and early 1970s, caused by Argentine clubs, allowed the competition to be seen for what it is. That is why European clubs started declining to participate and give importance to it. Brazilian clubs started the trend by declining to participate in the Copa Libertadores and, by ente, the Intercontinental Cup right before the above. FIFA tried organizing a CWC since 1961. The negativity of UEFA and CONMEBOL prevented it from happening since the confederations were trying to autoproclaimed themselves "world champions". FIFA clearly, and rightly, stated that a world title had to be opened to, if not every possible competitor, to as many competitors as possible. As a matter of fact, the rejection of CONMEBOL to allow CONCACAF teams to participate in the Copa Libertadores in 1963, as well as UEFA and CONMEBOL's rejection to allow its clubs to participate in the IC, was the prime cause of the creation of the CONCACAF Champions' Cup. There are plenty of other similar situations as the above that happened afterwards. The FCWC has become popular enough that there are 4-5 nations vying to host it. It is a competition representing every footballing continent in the world. I doubt we will see any of the atrocities we saw in the IC happen on a FCWC. Sorry but 2000 was an all-Brazilian final. The fact that I have to tell you something so basic gives testament as to how little you know about the sport. I still remember Vasco da Gama fans chanting at the Maracana, "Are those really the European champions?!" while Vasco da Gama was schooling Manchester United on the field. Hell! Real Madrid couldn't even win the 3rd place match. That is hardly "cruising into the final"... And before you start the same, old ignorant rant Corinthians qualified for the competition as the host nation's national champions (just like it is now). They are the only host club to win the CWC.
State Championships are the pre-season of the Brazilian League. Just think about it as such and you won't be so upset over it. Great place to try new young players and test your team. It doesn't really have any correlation to what will happen during the Brasileirao either, yet people always try to base results from the state championships as a league prediction. I think you're not in the majority, problem is most fans don't have their teams representing in the libertadores. Last year when we had Corinthians, Sao Paulo, Vasco, Flamengo in the Libertadores it was huge in Brazil because the top 4 fanbases were in the tournament. They wouldn't quit the libertadores, they were just talking out of their asses like Corinthians always does.. Remember the whole thing after they got disqualified from the Libertadores? We're much bigger than this little tournament and we value our national league a lot more than we do the Libertadores... Only to get to the libertadores the following year and rest all of their players during national league games in favor of libertadores... dont' care.. RIIIIIIIGHT That was then, this is now. Libertadores brings big money to clubs, even if they don't sell a single ticket for their games, they'll make money in TV rights. each home match is worth $210k, each match is worth $50k on the libertadores. Worth more after each round it goes through. I'm not sure they get more per game than this on the Paulista. But feel free to post the prize money for the Paulista here so we can all see that you're correct about prize money libertadores vs paulista. Sudamericana pays $400k for participating plus $90k for each home game. Once again.. please show me where the Paulista pays more per game than this cup... Sudamericana is the same as the UEFA cup, it's just a chance for smaller teams to compete internationally.
Honestly.. if you go back to the 80s and 90s, this is not at all how people felt about this competition. This might be how you feel about it now, but the reality is. Fifa back in the 60s and 70s was a joke of an organization. Nobody cared about what they said. UEFA was a joke of an organization CONMEBOL was a joke of an organization All National football federations were stronger than any of these international federations. So don't bring up these international federation opinions as it mattered, because back then if any of them said something teams would laugh them out of the building. And yes.. back in the 80s and 90s when all of the top teams went back to participating in the Intercontinental because it started being played outside of South America, it became once again the most prestigious game, and not a friendly at all. Every team would leave there with the World Champion title. I don't care if you're 20 years old and you think Fifa is important, don't discount history because you were not a part of it. Because Brazilian teams thought CONMEBOL was a joke and could't organize a tournament worth their time. They rather play another regional championship instead. Because FIFA was a small ass organization that wasn't taken serious by anybody. The IC was popular enough they had nations also wanting to host it. CWC is just an extension of the CWC. Let's not act like it's something new. It's really hard to beat Brazilians on their soil, I do wonder how Vasco would do against Man U in England, or if Corinthians would be able to get past Real in Madrid. But yes.. the European Champions got completely destroyed by Romario and Edmundo.
Brazilian league as the best? Its the typical 2 edged sword. As far as talent wise...no doubt one of the best if not the best. On organization and infrastructure, far from the best. The organization and league IMO are decades behind. The format isn't modern and the Brazilian philosophy of add more to make it bigger waters down the talented. Even with its challenges it is the boot camp of leagues as it is very tough with the amount of games that have to be played. A top team will play close or over 65 games not including international competition. CBF are horrible organizers. Now the talent that is produced I don't have to list names. This is the strength of the league but also the weakness .For those who follow the league, you have witnessed young talent bloom every year but with stronger currency overseas they will jump on that check for great pay and less games. Even with its challenges the Brazilian league is among the best, its just a few decades behind on modernization. One key person that can possibly change the current situation is the muckraker Andres Sanchez if he becomes the CBF president.
You are right in everything you have mentioned. Do you know some of Sanchez' propose plans for a better league? I hope he watches the NFL...that is a format we need to implement to better organize a large league. You are the only one in my life, that I have met or heard, that has said State Championships, the longest-running competitions in Brazil, are "pre-season" tournaments. All you are is a mongrol that repeats what others say without thinking. That explains the lack of any level of critical thinking from you in any of your posts. What you think doesn't matter. I go by facts and evidence. There are plenty of people, from clubs that have won the competition, participated in in and those who have never been on it, that knows the Libertadores is a really bad joke on sports in general. It is so bad, it is ridiculous. As a matter of fact, the Copa do Brasil is, by far, the most financially lucrative and most valued tournament outside of Europe. It surpasses, by a wide margin, the Libertadores. That alone says it all... You should realize what is important, no matter how much evidence and facts someone presents to you. They weren't talking out of their asses because I made constant trips around Timao's boards and threads and the response was almost unanimous: the have already won it once. Who cares about it? {deleted} The fact that you are saying that travesty of a competition brings "big money" already tells me you know jack about the competition itself, much less the prize money. (Santista throws out some insults here} Then again, seeing how stupid and outdated Vasco da Gama's fans and club members are, it is no wonder they are the worse-ran team in Brazil...so broke, they can't even get new transfers in and out because of their debt. Maybe 1.5 million dollars seems like big money for you...but those that actually watch the sport and can think, something alien to you, know that is not even chunk change. {Trolling} See above. Sudamericana is not the same as the UEFA Europa League (it was renamed from "UEFA Cup" years ago but since you like talking out of your ass I'll let that go since I know you know next to nothing about the sport). The format and participants make it more than obvious. Again, I have gone back all the way until the 1920s. By the rest of the part, any organization that goes against your fantasies of making the Libertadores "a grand competition" is a joke of an organization. FIFA was anything but small before the from the late 50s forward. But I am not going to waste time explaining anything to a buffon. Especially one that claimed nationall associations were more powerful than international organizations in the 60s and 70s. That myth is the primary reason the Intercontinental Cup was abandones by Europeans as an "important" title: it allowed them to be viewed for what it was. It {So much trolling I cannot edit it appropriately}
agree, but it's changing, modern arenas are popping up and with the WC stadiums they'll have decent playing grounds The league is organized right now, they lower the number of teams participating in Serie A not increased, and they have structured Serie B to the point that is profitable and Serie C is now established, Serie D is the only one that's struggling. This is also a trend that has died down, lots of players are moving inside the country instead of outside of it. modernization of the clubs is really what's missing here, they must change with times, they need to go after people with discretionary income and stop catering to the so called fans which don't spend money on their club. If Andres Sanchez becomes the president of CBF, Corinthians will become the strongest team in the world, but that will also end the competitiveness of the Brasileirao. Although if he comes in to protect the league and do the right thing (which I highly doubt it, this guy is connected with the Russian Mafia) he could do good. I rather take no Andres Sanchez.
no promotion or relegation and a salary cap.. right.. State Championships have lost it's luster a long time ago. Critical thinking it's to see it for what it is.. do you really think Mogi Mirim would stand a chance in the Brasileirao? Just use your critical thinking skills and put 2 and 2 together... teams give chances to young players.. teams sit their starters in favor of other competitions... teams test new formations and lineups.... Since you like american sports so much In the NFL we call that pre-season In the NBA we call that pre-season In the MLB we call that spring training In the NHL we call that pre season Hey.. if it looks like a pig, smells like a pig, makes noise like a pig... it's an arabian horse? I gave you evidence.. they sat their players.. you come back with your opinion and evidence from the 1970s... Congratulations on your cognitive thinking skills once more. is the evidence you're presenting your opinion? Once again.. Congratulations on your cognitive thinking skills Wow hold on a second! a team in Brazil took a popular stance to pretend they are bigger than anything else? NO WAI!!! looks like a pig, sounds like a pig, smells like a pig... but calls themselves an Arabian horse? I've heard it before... Brazilian people are easily fooled no wonders politicians keep getting re-elected even after getting caught stealing, you believe anything you're told. Congratulations on your cognitive thinking skills I agree, worse ran team less than 1 year ago was at the quarter final of the Libertadores and got 5th place in the Brasileirao. 2 years ago second place in the Brasileirao and Copa do Brasil Champion... Took their debt from 377 million in 2010 to 180 million in 2013... Keep believing the hype. I'm sorry I didn't see any numbers there.. maybe it's because you don't have any to back up your big mouth.. Congratulations on your cognitive thinking skills Oh i'm sorry I thought it was a second rate continental cup... But you're right it's not it's something else according to you.. but you won't describe it so you don't sound stupid once more It was also abandoned by Brazilian teams.. and by the way some European teams didn't play in Uruguay for the WC because it was a small competition, same for Uruguay (defending champs) not travelling to Europe for the competition.. WC avg less than 25k per game until 1950 if you don't know. And that's great you want to pretend Fifa was important, but most of the current Fifa awards and rules were not accepted by national federations even back in the 1990s. If you look at Fifa's records and how they talk about themselves they always make it seem as they were extremely important.. why wouldn't they? Reality is that they weren't. Lack of an answer doesn't make you smarter.. it shows you're not able to respond.. Congratulations on your ... forget it you just don't have thinking skills...
See I wouldn't doubt that the Paulista has great prize money attached to it, Sao Paulo State's economy is larger than a lot of the European Countries, I think it's similar to Spain maybe a little better. So the State of Sao Paulo can 100% financially carry a league that's the size of La Liga. But I would like to see those numbers before I can stay that the paulista is worth monetarily more than the Sudamericana or Libertadores.
No doubt SP can carry their own league. Its the business capital of Latin America. I know I ruffle some peoples feathers when I post this, the history and legacy of just Rio/Sp leagues are bigger than some over hyped leagues.
Economy in Brazil is getting much better last few years, and become very competitive at football (clubs) financial level with SerieA, Liga, French, and Bundesliga bottom 15 teams - bar a few power houses like Barca, Real, PSG, Juve, Milan, Bayern ... They are equivalent to bottom 10 of EPL
Teams in EPL that actually turned a profit last year 16 Teams in EPL that actually have no debt since last year 1 (Wolverhampton) EPL had record income last year 2.3 billion pounds, but they also had record losses 361 million pounds. If they were a public traded company.. people would be jumping out of that sinking ship... but government allows football teams to run huge public debt all over the world but the US.. go figure Bundesliga was the only profitable league in Europe, they profited 55 million euros 14/18 clubs generated profits La Liga small clubs survive off revenue sharing from Barcelona and Real, and some of them don't even survive.. Valencia was taken over by the local government for example, they defaulted in their interest payments. Ligue 1 and Serie A.. every year they are on the hole for an additional 100 million + euros.
I think the Brazilian league will go for an elitist crowds in the stadium. The days of fireworks and riot fans will lessen and the fan clubs will feel the financial pinch. Palestra Italia is in the process of bringing it back. For a team like Corinthians Im sure diplomacy will calm the wave.
Who needs the Champions League anyway? England is still the home of the beautiful game Oh, dear...watch out! First it was the Intercontinental Cup (albeit they were right. It was a crap competition). Then Super cups in general. Next was the FIFA Club World Cup. I guess it had to be one day. The English know German clubs are going to dominate for decades to come now.
They get over it and they aren't going anywhere. Bundesliga has always been good in what they have produced in club and NT which is more than what England can process.
Funny how Bundesliga becomes more relevant in this forum after the Germans thrashing the Spaniard teams. Before the thrashing they weren't mentioned.
The best league in the world is between the Bundesliga and the Brasileirao, taking into account the strenght of its teams, level of competition, density of competition, economic structures, organization and fan pull.
Brazilian league has no organization, economic structure and little fan pull due to violence. They make about 1.7 billion a year while the EPL makes about 6+, that's economic structure, organization and fan pull, but not quality
Four Brazilian teams eliminated in the octavos de final of Copa Libertadores. So that gives the answer to the question posed in the thread title.