Is MLS a failure?

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by RalleeMonkey, Feb 14, 2018.

  1. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    #226 Clint Eastwood, Feb 19, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2018
    I think we're seeing that with FCD right now. They have 10 homegrowns on their roster (Gonzalez, Acosta, Ulloa, Cannon, Pomykal, Ferreira, Servania, Reynolds, Reaves, Cano), or a third of their roster. Plus they have three Generation Adidas players (all foreign.............Reid, Atuahene, Twumasi). Most of these players are on smallish contracts or don't count against the cap at all. Thus FCD had a ton of cap space to go sign a player like Mosquera if they so choose.

    I trust most MLS coaches to give playing time to youngsters if they earn the opportunities. However, there really aren't many U18 around the league that seem up to MLS standards. Carleton has shown enough to warrant more playing time. Durkin with DCU has shown enough to warrant more playing time. Cannon and Pomykal at FCD have done enough. There are a few more. What we want to see is coaches giving youngsters opportunities, and then if they do well to continue getting opportunities. The case of Tyler Adams is a good one. He showed he belonged, so NYRB made a spot for him. Coaches aren't going to give teenagers playing time for the sake of playing time if they don't think they're ready.

    In every league around the world there are some clubs that make youth and player development a major part of their "business plan" and there are others that don't. We can pick a league and do the analysis. And in most leagues there are the "big money" teams that can go out and buy whomever they want, so they don't need youth development. Man City is a good example of that. How many homegrown players do they start? None. So its the Everton's and Southampton's that need player development. We can look at FCD and RSL as similar types of clubs in MLS. Maybe Atlanta United, despite the fact their academy has done well in getting started.....................is going to be more Man City than Everton. They have 15 million to spend on Barco, so they do.
     
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  2. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Ideally, youngsters would be free to sign with the FCDs, RSL, and NYRBs of the world.
     
    Patrick167 repped this.
  3. puttputtfc

    puttputtfc Member+

    Sep 7, 1999
    Who else bid after Traffic was shut down?
     
  4. puttputtfc

    puttputtfc Member+

    Sep 7, 1999
    Gulati was USSF Pres, receiving a paycheck from SUM and at one point employed by Kraft (Revs) Soccer. The owners of SUM are the owners of MLS. Yet there is no conflict of interest. I'm not sure I'm reading this correctly.
     
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  5. Matthew Johnson

    Sep 6, 2013
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nothing stopping them from signing with the Real Monarchs or RBII today. Or FC Dallas's USL team in '19. Impress at that level then move to 1st team.
     
  6. asoc

    asoc Member+

    Sep 28, 2007
    Tacoma
    Did you read the article I linked that went into a some detail on that contract?

    Part of the contract is that USSF would get a share of profits. That's what happens when you help organize the tournament like USSF did.

    It's not money that came from the SUM and USSF contract. It came from the SUM contract for the Copa America which was with multiple parties involved.
     
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  7. asoc

    asoc Member+

    Sep 28, 2007
    Tacoma
    IMG and SUM both got the Copa America contract together. No clue what other companies tried to get in on it.
     
  8. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Not going to happen while MLS veterans (for the most part) don't have free agency.

    By the way, we can talk all about the minutes provided to RSL and FCD homegrowns. Neither of those teams made the playoffs last season. You know which teams played the most MLS homegrowns last season? Hint: There was an inverse correlation between homegrown minutes and the playoffs. Top 5 Homegrown minute leaders were NYRB (which scraped into the playoffs), FCD, RSL, DCU, and NE.

    In fact there was an inverse correlation last season between the number of minutes given to U23s and making the playoffs................with the exception of Atlanta. Top five U23 minutes went to Atlanta, LA Galaxy, RSL, FCD, and Orlando. Those are the only 5 with 10k minutes to U23s (that's of any nationality). People rip Martino for not playing young players. Well, he gave the most minutes to U23s in the league. It just wasn't the U23s the BigSoccer intelligentsia wanted him to play. Atlanta gave 13.5k minutes to U23s. Portland, which finished first in the West? 2.5k.

    The primary objective for every MLS team at the start of each season is to win MLS Cup. The difficulty for MLS coaches is that playing lots of young, homegrown players doesn't typically result in winning games. Not when Atlanta is countering with Almiron, Martinez, Villalba, and Nagbe in 2018. People see what TFC is building for next year, and want MLS clubs to start teenagers against it? OK, I do too. But the number that are capable of playing at that level is really limited. You can count them on two hands. It would be nice to say there is on average one per team. There isn't.

    That's why its soooooooooooooooooooooooo important that we keep building up the quality of the USLPro and 2nd/3rd divisions.
     
  9. TheRealBilbo

    TheRealBilbo Member+

    Apr 5, 2016
    You do realize that Nagbe is an American, at least for national team purposes. His club play was in Cleveland, and he played for the Akron Zips in college.
     
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  10. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Sure. What about my comments made you think I didn't know he was an American? He's soon-to-be 28. My point there was about young, homegrown players against that caliber of attacking force.
     
  11. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    If I am not mistaken, all members that have a voice in USSF are connected to soccer in some way and ALL are potential beneficiaries (or losers) depending upon the policies of USSF. USSF is meant to be a governing body that benefits soccer in the US in the same way that the US government is meant to be system that benefits the US country and it's citizens. The fact that we are potential beneficiaries does not and should not exclude us from the right to vote. Quite the contrary.

    A better argument might be "is the voice that MLS has out of proportion to what it should be?"
     
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  12. asoc

    asoc Member+

    Sep 28, 2007
    Tacoma
    You aren't.
    There are always going to be conflicts of interest. It can't be avoided.

    That is why those with the conflict of interest recuse themselves from discussions and decisions involving those conflicts.

    When the SUM contract was last extended the ones making the decision had no ties to MLS and SUM because anyone on that board with a conflict recused themselves from that process.
     
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  13. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    You're coming with facts. That kind of attitude isn't going to be appreciated around here.

    My personal feeling is that without SUM (plus Don Garber and the shared financial burden/benefit of single entity), MLS would probably have folded in the early-to-mid 2000s.

    I think there are younger fans that see all of this as holding back MLS from gaining further. Some of us older fans see these initiatives as one of the reasons MLS actually still exists in the first place.

    I mean.............Don Garber is the Commissioner of MLS, on the Board of the USSF, and CEO of SUM. That all made sense when professional soccer in this country was hanging on by a thread. Nowadays people look at that and say "WTF? Why does this guy have so much power over the game in this country?"

    And he was doing all of that, BTW, while fighting prostate cancer. We should be building statues of Don Garber across the country (well.........except for Columbus).
     
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  14. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What you're doing here is explaining the differences when originally you claimed it is no different here than abroad.

    If one were to take to time to go thru all you said, it would be clear the incentives to scout, develop, play and sell are entirely different here than abroad. Yet I don't really need to go thru all that as I've already done it numerous times.
     
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  15. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    One can be appreciative of what was done in the past to get MLS out of the NICU and now say WTF?. It would actually be a huge sign of progress to unwind the SUM/USSF/MLS relationship as, irrespective of Asoc's perspective, it is a clear conflicting interest for a mature entity. It's a good thing that Carter didn't win as that's progress.
     
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  16. puttputtfc

    puttputtfc Member+

    Sep 7, 1999
    If you take what a group of pathological liars (USSF/SUM/MLS) say at face value, I can see where it makes sense. Crew fans tend not to believe a word coming out of this group. USMNT fans shouldn't believe them either.
     
  17. kba4life1

    kba4life1 Member+

    Jul 14, 2010
    Irvine, CA
    Exactly. I’m no business expert, but I’ve been involved with organizations that used certain vendors that were vital in getting us out of business and revenue trouble. We didn’t continue to use those vendors in perpetuity after we got out of the hole as a result of something that was accomplished 10 years ago. We said thanks, paid them on time, and wished them well.

    SUM was a vital lifeline for MLS a decade ago, very understandable, but questioning the agreement and potential conflicts of interest today shouldn’t be met with such resistance.
     
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  18. It's called FOOTBALL

    LMX Clubs
    Mexico
    May 4, 2009
    Chitown
    What are these supposed non-footballing factors? The 1st half of the cycle was nothing to write home about either.
    He handled the roster the best he can, there's only so much one can do with inferior talent. Arena did a good job, all things considered.
     
  19. beerslinger23

    beerslinger23 Member+

    Jun 26, 2010
    The ******** he did.
     
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  20. It's called FOOTBALL

    LMX Clubs
    Mexico
    May 4, 2009
    Chitown
    He's not a magician.

    What did he do wrong
     
  21. beerslinger23

    beerslinger23 Member+

    Jun 26, 2010
    Are you seriously going to try to post a rebuttal to each accusation I levy at Bruce? Give it a rest man.
     
  22. laxcoach

    laxcoach Member+

    United States
    Jul 29, 2017
    intermountain west
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Arena admittedly went with players he was 'comfortable' with. He played the faux nationalism card. He had no real changes in tactics from game to game. He played over the hill guys and got burned.

    There was more than enough talent to get to the WC. He was too old and blind to see it. I realize mexican fans think the US is deprived of talent in comparison but that's false.
     
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  23. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    If the Central Americans keep improving under the aegis of the Colombian and Ecuadorian coaches who are now there by the dozen, we're going to need Zeus as our coach to qualify.
     
  24. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Start with he only managed 4 points of the 12 available in the last 4 matches...
     
  25. TheRealBilbo

    TheRealBilbo Member+

    Apr 5, 2016
    After next cycle, with the World Cup expanding to 48 teams, the US should be able to qualify pretty easily.

    Arena lost to T&T on the final day of qualifications. All he needed was a draw in that game to advance. OK, Costa Rica lost to Panama and Mexico scored for Honduras to put the US out.

    The USMNT should have never been in a position where they needed a point on the final day of qualification.
     

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