Would not EVER want to 'be Germany'.....but take away the Germans admitted ability to win pk shootouts....and add that record to England instead....and things look a LOT different....you can start with the pk's of 1990 (W.C. semi-final)...and 1996 (Euro semi-final) and go from there....that's two final appearances taken away from the Germans and given to England.....
Take away a goal from a Spain and add it to the Dutch and the Dutch would have won the W.C. in 2010 Same thing in 2006 with Italy and France You can go throughout history and manipulate the facts all you want to help your point of view but the facts remain. Those facts are that England is not a World Power in futbol.
The record is what the record is. You can't change it. This goes for both sides on the argument. England is one out of eight in pk shootouts if I am not mistaken. That is more on England than it is on the Germans.
Even if we don't use English players as an example, then look at the foreign players in there - Vydra is a Czech international, there are loads of foreign players in there that are international players which for me makes it more than an amateur league. And also, the only bias I have seen on this thread is people being biased against England, everyone who supports England have admitted we aren't as good as some of the top teams anymore but the comparisons that others have made to us have often been ridiculous.
Germany's been to 7 world cup finals & 6 euro finals for a total of 13 major finals. englands been to 1 world cup final & zero euro finals for a total of 1 major final. a couple of pk results makes little impact, not to mention Germany themself lost a euro final on penalties. you might never ever want to be Germany but i'm pretty sure they might never ever want to be England just a little bit more
Lol couldn't be further form the truth, actually. It's a myth that we think we are favourites before every tournament. Before Euro 2012 I remember there being a poll on sky sports and over 50% of viewers thought we wouldn't make it past the group stage, 90% thought we wouldn't make it past the QF. Go figure.
Gerrard - has carried Liverpool for the past decade, was one of the main reasons they won the CL in 2005. Lampard and Terry - Along with Drogba have been the main reason for Chelsea's success in the past decade Wilshere - Is now the man carrying Arsenal along with Cazorla. Also seem to remember him outplaying a certain kid called Neymar a couple of months ago who is severely overrated. Could go on and on, British players aren't normally wanted outside of the EPL because wages in the EPL are the highest. A player playing for a lower club in England will earn more than they could at a higher club in another country, so foreign clubs can get higher quality players elsewhere other than England.
[Again, many people also seem to take the content and reporting of the "red tops" at face value IMO...]
Once again british bias, prime example is wilshire. He is not even top three in arsenal's midfield yet he gets all the credit from the british media and fans. I've seen games where carzola or arteta have assists and goals vs wilshire having none and still wilshire gets MOTM. Arteta and Carzola Same thing goes for lampard and terry, they are ok players but they arent and never been chelsea's best players. Actually lampard hurts chelsea with his roaming and doing what the fuk he wants on the field instead of staying in central midfield where he belongs. Part of Torres problem with chelsea is having midfielders crowding the box when they dont belong there. []__[]
This whole line of reasoning just begs the question of why England consistently choke on penalty kicks. I attribute it to mental weakness, just as the Germans' consistent success in pennos I attribute to mental toughness.
Horseshit. Before the 2006 WC (or was it the 2010 WC? I can't remember), the England fans over in World Rivalries were adamant that no one had a better chance than England of winning the World Cup. Really.
[MESSAGE DECODED: The other Four Nations, Eire & all the other countries that have players in the EPL can provide more depth and width in star players than England can by itself... ]
Again, I can't remember if it was the 2006 WC or the 2010, but before one of them, england66, bless his English heart, said that he hadn't felt this good about an English side since 1966 and that he was going to bet the farm on England winning it all, lol!
Having recently watched England easily beat Brazil saying they are 20-30 in the world doesnt say much for Brazil does it!!
There is honestly so much wrong with that post that I don't even know where to begin. Wilshere not in the top three in Arsenal's midfield? He has been comfortably better than Arteta, and Cazorla has been very inconsistent, whereas almost every game Wilshere has performed well, and in the games when Arsenal have been poor (i.e. Bayern at home), Wilshere was the only player on the pitch for Arsenal that looked like doing anything. And don't take assist and goal stats religiously. But seen as you like them so much, then how about Lampard - 200 goals from midfield for Chelsea. And Terry has been a great defender and leader for both club and country for years. Torres has just been awful since moving to Chelsea, and I don't think you can blame Lampard running into the box for him missing open nets and simple chances every game.
I can see a player having mental weakness.. but a whole nation for so many years with so many players... sorry that makes mental toughness or mental weakness an invalid point.
Never said it wasn't. Fact is Germany has reached MULTIPLE W.C /Euro finals by winning a pk shootout somewhere along the way( IIRC they haven't lost on since 1968).....England's inability to win PK shootouts...90, 96,04,06,12 is the big difference.
@Hartwick - this isn't World Rivalries. Probably best to leave the anti-England rhetoric for that forum. Otherwise, I will say I disagree completely with the 'mental weakness' comment. England has players that have performed well for their domestic sides, often times too in international club competitions like the champions league, etc. They are tough. But some players don't perform as well for the national program as they do for their clubs. It's been like this for just about any decent national program. Even Brasil - in the early 00's, people used to always clamour for Giovane Elber, who was doing good things in Munich. But for Brasil, Elber was mediocre. Same with "Super" Mario Jardel @ Porto. Otherwise, yes, England are a very, very good team. Powerhouse? Depends on what you call a powerhouse. They are always capable of making a run in a tournament, as they proved just a year or so ago. Are they in the upper echelon of sides, like a Spain, or Germany, Italy or Brasil for instance? I don't think so. I don't look at England vs. Montenegro and say: This game is clear as day, England *should* win. However it isn't to say that on their day, they can't push one of those elite sides or even beat them (though a friendly, they did get a result against Brasil even though some argue this Brasil is 'weak' in comparison to priors... in which case I point to many matches being close, or draws.) England are good - have some fantastic players. But some teams like the Netherlands, sides I mentioned before, etc. have some players that are a little (or in some cases a lot) more fantastic. And being 'elite' isn't just a reflection of the players. A lot of things have to fall into place to actually win a tournament. You need sound management, and IMO a little bit of luck as well. Oh... and FIFA's corruption minimalized also helps. Media is media, they hype/sensationalize whatever they can. Even in the US, it wasn't Clint Dempsey or Landon Donovan taht got attention prior to 2010, it was Guiseppi Rossi that had a front page splash on a major magazine and touted as 'America's greatest hope at teh World Cup'... the irony being A: the article was written by the US manager's brother, and B: in the end, Rossi did not make the Italy roster. But it was enough of a slant that fans of the US were upset about the media. The media is worse in England, and can beat down players, etc. It's difficult in Spain, Germany or Italy as well - if there's controversy or strife, they'll find it and exploit it - and perhaps even create it. if a country has a good player, he'll have unreal expectations placed on him by his fans. Messi, Ronaldo, Neymar, Falcao.
The Germans practice them constantly and seriously....many English mangers are, unfortunately, of the opinion (obviously wrong) that 'You can't practice penalty's' .....
Brazil has a huge track record of excellence even in current history, lost 5 tournaments they have entered since 1994.. That's 9 tournament wins and 5 tournament losses.. Brazil last tournament win Brazil had was 2009... why are we even comparing? worst period for Brazilian football was between 1970-1994 when they only won 1 title... that's 24 YEARS and 1 title.. yet you guys want to say Brazil has never been worse than it is now because they haven't won a title since 2009. It's like you guy want Brazil to be bad so much you make up stories in your head. Don't compare England to Brazil, Germany or Italy. Honestly they are not even close to being at that level.
Wow if that's really the case something is majorly wrong with the culture of Football in England, I haven't heard that since the 80s. Very backwards.
of course cause 1998 was before 1986, I take it maths is't a strong subject for the English as two of your lot even repped you ''haven't they'' Also who out of us have been more further often and have had better players overall, don't embarass yourself by trying to make your lot seem better than Arg. Also who out of us have missed more international tournaments since 1970 for the world and our respective continent cups.