InTheNet's Teaching Methods

Discussion in 'Education and Academia' started by Iceblink, Jun 3, 2005.

  1. Samarkand

    Samarkand Member+

    May 28, 2001
    Re: Teaching Methods

    Can't answer, won't answer. QED.
     
  2. quentinc

    quentinc New Member

    Jan 3, 2005
    Annapolis, MD
    Re: Teaching Methods

    The only one of those I know of that we have to read in all four years of high school is "Grapes of Wrath." I highly doubt that Tolstoy and Dumas could even be understood by the average high schooler.
     
  3. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Teaching Methods

    I hope you're wrong. Those are not particularly challenging writers.
     
  4. mrsbabytiger2001

    mrsbabytiger2001 New Member

    Jan 29, 2002
    Melbourne. AUS
    First of all, I am so amazed to finally find a place that a fellow teacher can feel at home in.

    Second of all, I am an Australian teacher with a grade 1 and 2. I do agree, that children should be able to achieve certain basic standards by the time that they reach the end of their 3rd year at school (the third year being the end of Grade 2).

    We have to be careful to make sure that they are able to walk before they can run. Being able to construct and have a legible and understable writing is first on the list. Being able to link ideas into their writing and to comprehesively use their imagination into writing ideas of course must come first. The technical aspects of writing and use of grammar and punctuation are aspects that you can only teach a portion at a time. Anything else is too overwhelming.

    Just my two cents worth.

    :)
     
  5. oman

    oman Member

    Jan 7, 2000
    South of Frisconsin
    A small point. Just as all of us run into people who are astoundingly ignorant and yet still vote, so to do we find large numbers of parents who are both woeful parents as well as woeful educators. While I certainly want to live in a society that gives people freedom to do what they want, I don't automatically denote expertise on someone just by virtue of the fact that they can ******** and decide to keep the kids.
     
  6. IntheNet

    IntheNet New Member

    Nov 5, 2002
    Northern Virginia
    Club:
    Blackburn Rovers FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Teaching Methods

    Alexandre Dumas' "The Three Musketeers" and "The Count of Monte Cristo" are both on 9th and 10th grade reading lists... if they can't understand it I recommend a remedial reading course!
     
  7. Mel Brennan

    Mel Brennan PLANITARCHIS' BANE

    Paris Saint Germain
    United States
    Apr 8, 2002
    Mid-Atlantic States
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Teaching Methods

    no sh!t.

    Which qualifies you to speak on these issues only with regard to yourself and your child/children, and to represent the opinion only of yourself.

    More opinion, but you lack preciseness: specifically, what do you mean when you say "educating children?" Educating them toward...what end(s), exactly? What do you mean when you say "balanced education"? Balancing what with/against what, exactly? Because I can guarantee that, as a teacher and as a parent, we mean different, and probably diametrically opposite, things when we define the above.

    Now, how can you calim to be so involved with your child's education, PTA and such, and offer this foolishness? There is no ONE person responsible for this when it happens; all kinds of factors, given the specific situation, kick in, but NEVER (or nearly never) is it the fault of ONE person; that's idiocy.

    This is a pathetic and horrible set of ignorant generalizations about which, even given all your contribution, you apparently know nothing. What is "mastery" of "core compency"? What do you think "mastery" and "core competencies" are?

    and Reagan fvcked up, royally. Next...

    As a parent, I don't give a fvck about scores.

    Again, what, to YOU, is a "balanced education"? Again, I rest replete in the knowledge that my definition of such, my entire peer group's definition of such, across multiple states in the USA and across many nations throughout the world, is utterly different, and likely perfectly opposed, to yours.

    That's not true at all; most I come across can. Most have no commitment to various systems we've committed to, and have relative mastery of a number of ways in which to offer clear speech, logical thinking, and articulate expression, not just the "standard," and certainly not just those spoken words and articualte expression that prmote/reflect the logical thinking that infests your political posts. You're ignorant, and, likely, hateful, of the fact that today's HS cohort doesn't really reflect you at all. Lst gasping, like your Executive, doesn't an education make. In fact, that's a Dark Ages direction.

    You fail to acknowledge the actual genius of Homer Simpson.

    Which on-the-ground expression of it? You're ignorant when it comes to Montessori b/c the truth of it is (I attended Infanta Montessori, now Montessori Academy, in Delran NJ, and then a Friends/Quaker school before experiencing public HS in South Jersey) that Montessori "philosophy" in practice is SUBSTANTIVELY different from school to school, and most get results in terms ofthe frameworks of assessment you offer (which themselves are limited and tell us very little, reflecting inthe teritiary sense your crystallised and flawed take on what education must be to be effective, which is never-ending and couched NOT in "to the wayside" free-market fundamentalism, but rather in paideia, fronesis and parrhesia, but I digress). So, specifically, given your commitment and experience to these matters, what are you talking about when you talk about the Montessori "method" on the ground in operation that is observable?

    No, just you.
    How can you blame someone who mocks someone who mocks a right utterly missing form the Constitution, a right for which people went to jail, the hospital and the morgue to acquire (the right to workplace empowerment/organized labor)? Maybe you ought to head back to your HS history class, or just ask around amogn the older generation; they'll tell you what it TOOK to get those rights on the books, and how people who think like you casually look to dismantle that which people dies for (and are dying for around the world...see Coca-Cola and Colombia, for one quick example)...

    Take your free-market fundamentalism, your market-as-fetishism, and fvck off. My kids will never be anyone's...product. As much as you and the Fraser Institute would like my kids to be bought and owned by someone (anyone!), and to your likely dismay, there are whole swaths of parents "out there" who will never see the organic, life-aligned notion of education as a market process. Too bad for you. Wonderful for the processes by which people come to actually know, and know what they don't know...

    You have NEVER taught. That much is clear; b/c only someone who has NEVER taught would suggest that the vast majority of teachers do not take responsibility for everything they DO in a class, not to mention the quality of student they pass on to the next level. Have you ever spent any time with teachers? I know you've never taught, but have you spent any time with teachers, you now, just talking? They can't stop talking about their classrooms and their kids...every conversation can be somehow related to their students; it's kinda annoying sometimes ( :) ), but you realize that, often, they are continuing to work through various issues just by airing them or by bouncing them off of someone...

    ...they are committed. And responsible for EVERYTHING they DO in that classroom. Only a fool, or an ignoramus, would suggest otherwise about the VAST majority of teachers. You've never been in a classroom, so you don't understand how the responsibility for these kids comes OVER you, whether you want it on your shoulders or not. It's a natural thing that happens.

    No; you want things the way you want them when you want them; like most free-market fundamentalists and backers of capital as the primary force in our lives (rather than a value of life), you commodify, unitize, commercialize and marketize everything, including the idea of knowledge and knowing, such that someone can make a buck, even off of the very children you claim to advocate for. You're lost, and as crippled by your way of thinking (and even, maybe especially, by the "balanced" approach that offers space and legitimacy TO the "human=product" framework, thus invalidating itself even while seeking the "center) as you are, you cannot even that the crystalized, yet not fully defined, frame ON education you apply is perfectly self-defeating...you've left the key thing undefined, USE those non-defintions to denigrate teachers and the process, and turned your kids into product.

    Stay away from my school system. Your thinking is utterly discredited.
     
  8. Samarkand

    Samarkand Member+

    May 28, 2001
  9. IntheNet

    IntheNet New Member

    Nov 5, 2002
    Northern Virginia
    Club:
    Blackburn Rovers FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Teaching Methods

    Mel: Your last statement revealed your true intention... I followed all your thoughts until you got to this point... "Stay Away"? This is a strange sentiment? Is this how teachers address parents? Even the most radical leftist teacher I know in our entire school District appreciates parents (which their perhaps biased pro-student intentions) into the curricula! The fact that you also dismiss what President Reagan and Sec. of Education did for the nation also frames your thinking as exclusive and not-student centered.... Further, the incorporation of lesson plans which challenge students (such as books from esteemed writers or the Classics Series) will do more to help students THAN ANYTHING YOU HAVE RECOMMENDED in your post.

    I frequently rail against teachers, when warranted, but I respect them nonetheless and I respect them more when they challenge students to succeed. Nothing you posted seem to challenge students, but you seem to challenge Parents!

    That is why you are wrong!
     
  10. quentinc

    quentinc New Member

    Jan 3, 2005
    Annapolis, MD
    Re: Teaching Methods

    I've made it through 9th and 10th Grade (English H) without reading either of those. These are all the books I have read in two years of high school, including summer reading.

    Animal Farm
    Ethan Frome
    To Kill A Mockingbird
    A Separate Peace
    Bless Me, Ultima
    Romeo & Juliet
    Frankenstein
    Rime of the Ancient Mariner
    The Pearl
    Heart of Darkness
    Things Fall Apart
    Wuthering Heights
    A Midsummer Night's Dream
    The Grapes of Wrath
    The Jungle

    The last two are my current summer reading, for my junior year. I don't know what your Freshman and Sophomore reading lists are like, but with your educational ignorance having been so profoundly displayed throughout this board, I doubt you could tell me the reading list of your local high school.
     
  11. IntheNet

    IntheNet New Member

    Nov 5, 2002
    Northern Virginia
    Club:
    Blackburn Rovers FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Teaching Methods

    distrunner450.... thank you for posting your book list; several of these are excellent books but I have reservations on two of your choices. However, not to dissolve this post into bickering, I'll just focus above on your first eight words: "The last two are my current summer reading"... As I recall, my English teacher mandated a book or two or more each month, and at least a dozen during the summer... we were ALWAYS doing book reports, and frequently other courses (History, Civics, etc.) also mandated books for reading...

    15 books? That's 7 1/2 per year... that's probably more than some, but way under the basic minimum... Again, not to bicker, I support the idea of challenging students to read and forcing them to read a lot...4-5 books a month of various content...If not then they will not be exposed to all they need to be exposed to in their four years of high school!
     
  12. quentinc

    quentinc New Member

    Jan 3, 2005
    Annapolis, MD
    Re: Teaching Methods

    Ummm...we don't do book reports, that's pretty basic. We write papers that focus on themes and motifs, and other matters that are deeper than basic plot summary.

    Well, I read alot of books anyway, outside of what's required. However, in English, we often read short stories and poems throughout the year. I do think students should read more, but I know very few people who would happen to read that many books.
     
  13. Samarkand

    Samarkand Member+

    May 28, 2001
    How about Shakespeare's prose? :D
     
  14. oman

    oman Member

    Jan 7, 2000
    South of Frisconsin
    Having read all but one of the books on the list, I am curious as to which two you have "reservations" about. And why.

    Sorry if it appears I am encouraging bickering.

    The only book I have every had reservations about is "The Bridges of Madison County". The first and last book I ever read which was recommended by the missus.
     
  15. Paddy31

    Paddy31 Member

    Aug 27, 2004
    Pukekohe, NZ
    I'll suggest some classic books that the children might enjoy reading. This is a list for 9-12 year olds.
    Charlotte's Web by E. B. White
    Hatchet by Gary Paulsen
    The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe by C. S. Lewis
    Bridge to Terabithia by Katherine Paterson
    Charlie and the Chocolate Factory by Roald Dahl
    A Wrinkle in Time by Madeleine L'Engle
    Shiloh by Phyllis Reynolds Naylor
    Little House on the Prarie by Laura Ingalls Wilder
    The Secret Garden by Frances Hodgson Burnett
    The Boxcar Children by Gertrude Chandler Warner
    Sarah, Plain and Tall by Patricia MacLachlan
    The Indian in the Cupboard by Lynne Reid Banks
    Island of the Blue Dolphins by Scott O'Dell
    Maniac Magee by Jerry Spinelli
    The BFG by Roald Dahl
    The Giver by Lois Lowry
    James and the Giant Peach: A Children's Story by Roald Dahl
    Little House in the Big Woods by Laura Ingalls Wilder
    Roll of Thunder, Hear My Cry by Mildred D. Taylor
    Stone Fox by John Reynolds Gardiner
    Number the Stars by Lois Lowry
    Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of Nimh by Robert C. O'Brien
    The Best Christmas Pageant Ever by Barbara Robinson
    Matilda by Roald Dahl
    Tales of a Fourth Grade Nothing by Judy Blume
    Ramona Quimby, Age 8 by Beverly Cleary
    The Trumpet of the Swan by E. B. White
    The Chronicles of Narnia by C. S. Lewis
    The Phantom Tollbooth by Norton Juster
    Tuck Everlasting by Natalie Babbitt
    Anne of Green Gables by Lucy Maud Montgomery
    The Great Gilly Hopkins by Katherine Paterson
    Little House books by Laura Ingalls Wilder - Laura Ingalls Wilder Webquest
    Sideways Stories from Wayside School by Louis Sachar
    Harriet the Spy by Louise Fitzhugh
    A Light in the Attic by Shel Silverstein
    Mr. Popper's Penguins by Richard Atwater
    My Father's Dragon by Ruth Stiles Gannett
    Stuart Little by E. B. White
    Walk Two Moons by Sharon Creech
    The Witch of Blackbird Pond by Elizabeth George Speare
    The Watsons Go to Birmingham-1963 by Christopher Paul Curtis
     
  16. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Teaching Methods

    His true intention was to point out--in detail--that you're a troll in this forum.
     
  17. Jacen McCullough

    Nov 23, 1998
    Maryland
    Knowing his posting habits, I'm willing to bet that Things Fall Apart is one of them. Interesting that Achebe and Conrad (Heart of Darkness) are both on the list. Distrunner, did you read those two in the same year, and if so, did your teacher point out Achebe's opinion of Conrad's work?

    As for the books on the list, there were no huge shocks. Some I loved (Frankenstein, Shakespeare's stuff, Things Fall Apart and Grapes), while some I remember just HATING (Paging Ethan Frome- You can't hit that tree fast enough for me). Not a horrid list though. Fair warning- After reading The Jungle you won't want to eat ANYTHING for a good couple of months. If you finish early and want to read some other stuff, check out Richard Wright's work (I loved Native Son), any of Tim O'Brien's stuff (Going After Cacciato is better than The Things The Carried), or some fun short work (check out O. Henry, Harlan Ellison or really any decent story collection). If any of that sounds too heavy, just pick up one of your old favorite books and have a re-read. I had a fond-memory moment when Paddy posted his list. Sachar's Wayside School series is largely responsible for my love of books. I still re-read them from time to time (along with A Cricket in Times Square, Bridge to Terabithia and many others).

    Incidentally, a few more titles to add to Paddy's list would be The Chocolate War by Bob Cormier (a bit controvertial, but a great read), the Shadow Children series (can't remember the authors name, but if you google Shadow Children at Amazon or the library, you'll find them), anything by Canadian author Kevin Major ( Blood Red Eucre is a good one for kids who are interested in Native American culture, while Dear Bruce Springstein is a good one for you to read with your son/daughter to remember your glory years in the 80's) and a number of books by Avi (he won his first Newberry award for Crispin, The Cross of Lead, which is a good choice for spiritual families. It has religious undertones).
     
  18. IntheNet

    IntheNet New Member

    Nov 5, 2002
    Northern Virginia
    Club:
    Blackburn Rovers FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Teaching Methods

    bigredfutbol: In short: Shut the hell up! I'm tired of you dicriminating against posters and contributors, myself and others... if you have nothing better to add to this forum, then shut up. To the others, I apologise for such a nasty post but bigredfutbol is all about criticism of conservatives in general and me; he goes from post to post adding nothing but his own bile and rarely is he on topic.
     
  19. quentinc

    quentinc New Member

    Jan 3, 2005
    Annapolis, MD
    Yes, that was focused on very heavily. We read Heart of Darkness first, and then Things Fall Apart. We also read an excerpt of a piece in the Massachusetts Review that Achebe wrote, in rebuttal to Conrad..

    Ethan Frome was, by far, the most awful book we read on the list.

    I actually read The Jungle a little while ago, so I know what you're about. It's really not about the meat-packing industry at all, however.

    Also, I would like to note that every English class is required to read one Shakespearean play a year. This year, we got a choice between Julius Caesar an AMSND. I chose the latter since the other three years, we read tragedies (Macbeth, Hamlet, R&J). I would also like to point out that, senior year, we research his sonnets.

    EDIT: We also read Lord of the Flies this past year.
     
  20. IntheNet

    IntheNet New Member

    Nov 5, 2002
    Northern Virginia
    Club:
    Blackburn Rovers FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ethan Frome (Wharton): tale of society and morality as impediments to the fulfillment of desire.

    Bless Me, Ultima (Anaya): lyrical tale of medicine and spirituality and mysticism.

    I have 'reservations' about both works simply because there are better works out there on both genres.
     
  21. Jacen McCullough

    Nov 23, 1998
    Maryland
    I know, but still...oogie. I hated Frome with a passion. I would have pushed that sled at the end if he was having 2nd thoughts.

    LotF is another great book. I wrote part of my pedagogy portion of the Praxis 2 on LotF. As for Shakespeare's work, enjoy it. Really try and get into it, because it's the kind of stuff that stays with you a looooong time. I personally prefer Caesar to AMSND, but (as the Reduced Shakespeare Company proclaimed) I generally feel that the tragedies are funnier than the comedies. I'm also not shocked to find that your school saves the Sonnets for the seniors. I can't imagine underclassmen (no offense) being mature enough to handle the fact that half of Shakespeare's love poems were written about a man (the other half being about an ugly woman).
     
  22. Jacen McCullough

    Nov 23, 1998
    Maryland
    Holy crap, I actually agree with you. Frome, in particular, is part of a small pantheon of texts that gets viewed as a "great work" simply because it has been taught for so long (A Seperate Peace is another such title).
     
  23. quentinc

    quentinc New Member

    Jan 3, 2005
    Annapolis, MD
    Are you talking about the character, Ethan Frome?
     
  24. quentinc

    quentinc New Member

    Jan 3, 2005
    Annapolis, MD
    I really liked A Separate Peace, actually. Probably one of my top five books ever.
     
  25. oman

    oman Member

    Jan 7, 2000
    South of Frisconsin
    that's a pretty lame reason to have "reservations" about such a small list.

    Macbeth, Hamlet and Lear are all superior to Romeo and Juliet. Should this mean that one should have "reservations" about Romeo and Juliet?
     

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