Interesting Best XI

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by Excape Goat, Aug 30, 2005.

  1. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    This is the introduction page, the page before the XI

    [​IMG]

    This is a nice extension to Jimmy Hill his 1978 book and observations.


    Also interesting is this, from the 'Barcelona Official Handbook' (published second half of 2001 by Panini).

    [​IMG]

    The most informative part (which isn't readily available on the internet I saw) are comments on the attendances. Noticeable increases and the largest bumps took place in the late 1940s (just before Kubala came, but consolidated during his first couple of years), the mid 1970s and then also the late 1980s.

    With regards to the XI I'm inclined to say that the circumstances matter, and then specifically the relationship to the violent and intimidating leadership style of Nunez-Gaspar (Nunez was even on the supervisory board of the regional channel!).
    Hence the standing of Ronaldo (2nd and 1st place in Ballon d'Or for Barca), Maradona and Cruijff (two 1st places, 3rd, 5th and 7th place in BdO for Barca) suffers. They were somewhat divisive figures at this point. Kubala made the Ballon d'Or list once (5th in 1957) but of course he suffers from injuries and infrequent contributions/appearances.

    It's true that Don Balon included Stoichkov more often than Laudrup in their 'team of the year' (3 vs 2 inclusions) but the latter suffers from his defection to Real Madrid I think.
     
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  2. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Briegel of Kaiserslautern accumulates to 37 inclusions. His first was in 1977-78 (one inclusion), his last in 1983-84 (one inclusion). Then he moved to Italy at the age of 28.

    This makes 15%. On starts only (230 starts says weltfussball.de) it moves up to 16%.
     
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  3. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord

    There are four others that were active in this period, with four or more world class ratings, but not selected.

    Starting with Klinsmann who was rated world class 7 times (also while playing abroad of course). Selected semi-contemporary Voller was rated 4 times at that level.


    Jurgen Klinsmann - selected 24 times in 221 games. 11%

    Andreas Kopke - selected 41 times in 346 games. 12%. Looks as if it helps to play for a smaller team as a goalkeeper.

    Willi Schulz - I pass this one because website doesn't show 1963-64. Might be correct, but it would change the calculcation (because his 25 games in 1963-64 needs to be removed from total).

    Kevin Keegan - selected 27 times in 90 games. 30%


    Keegan is the last one to be rated 4 or more times world class, but not selected. Keegan was 26 when he entered the league and 29 when he left.

    In the modern time, both Ribery and Robben move over 30% based on games they started.
     
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  4. ManiacButcher

    ManiacButcher Member

    Palmeiras
    Argentina
    May 23, 2004
    Brasil
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Really nice to see the uruguayan J.C. Benítez as a sub for the best Barça XI.
    He was indeed a great player that stays under the radar for many other soccer enthusiasts. Just take a look at AllTime lists in the net and you'll see how low the number of mentions to his name.
    And nowadays, it will be even harder to see his name due to the successful passage of Daniel Alves for Barça. ;)
     
  5. Gregoriak

    Gregoriak BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 27, 2002
    Munich
    #1130 Gregoriak, Feb 13, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
    Köpke thus the most impressive and probably because he was tested more often than the other big name goalkeepers. I remember radio commentators were crazy about Köpke week-in week-out in the late-1980s and early-1990s when he played for Nürnberg. Insane save after insane save....
    How about Allan Simonsen?
    Kicker only started "Team of the Week" in 1964-65 if I remember correctly thus nothing on Schulz in 1963-64.
    Ribéry and Robben getting such high percentages is quite an achievement considering the competition they have in their own team. It's harder to stand out in a team like this decade's Bayern side.
    I will update the info.
     
  6. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Allan Simonsen adds up to 0 + 0 + 7 + 6 + 10 + 5 + 3 = 31 inclusions in 178 games. 17%.
     
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  7. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Saw this today:

    [​IMG]

    Note: a few years earlier in the same magazine his answer was Pelé as 'favorite player'. See below:

    [​IMG]
    (+ what the other players say)

    FIW against France Football in 1989 he voted Beckenbauer (for 'Super Balon d'Or'), but in 1999 his ranking order was Pelé, Cruijff, Beckenbauer, Maradona, Di Stefano (in that order). But then in 2004, when FIFA existed 100 years it was: Di Stefano, Cruijff, Beckenbauer, Platini and Van Basten.


    His predecessor Kevin Keegan was already posted in this thread:
    https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/interesting-best-xi.325564/page-43#post-34781657

    I was looking for comments of a later date by him, but could only find this from October 1983.

    [​IMG]

    Maybe because he was regular contributor until 1981 (or 1982?), that it took a while for a new 'Focus On' with 'best XI' and/or 'favorite player'.

    As bonus, here a mid twenties Chris Waddle:

    [​IMG]

    Shilton; Duxbury, Passarella, Hansen, Statham; Conti, Cruijff, Socrates; Maradona, Zico, Dalglish
     
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  8. Gregoriak

    Gregoriak BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 27, 2002
    Munich
    Werder Bremen Bundesliga XI

    ----------------------------------11 AILTON-------------------9 Rudolf VÖLLER

    -------------------------------------------10 Andreas HERZOG
    --------------7 Marco BODE------------------------------------------8 Torsten FRINGS
    --------------------------------------------6 Miroslav VOTAVA

    ---3 Horst-Dieter HÖTTGES------------------------------------------2 Josef PIONTEK
    -------------------------------4 Rune BRATSETH----5 Bruno PEZZEY

    ------------------------------------------1 Dieter BURDENSKI
     
  9. Gregoriak

    Gregoriak BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 27, 2002
    Munich
    #1134 Gregoriak, Feb 19, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2018
    Hamburg All-Time XI

    ---11 Gert DÖRFEL---8 Otto HARDER---9 Uwe SEELER---7 Kevin KEEGAN

    --------------------10 Felix MAGATH-----------------------6 Rudolf NOACK

    -------3 Hans LANG-----------------4 Ditmar JAKOBS------------2 Manfred KALTZ

    --------------------------------------------5 Willibald SCHULZ

    ---------------------------------------------1 Ulrich STEIN
     
  10. annoyedbyneedoflogin

    Juventus Football Clube Ajax Mineiro de Deportes
    Jun 11, 2012
    Why not place Hrubesch instead of the alcoholic Harder? He wouldnt last 90 minutes anyway.
     
  11. lanman

    lanman BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 30, 2002
    A County Durham XI. The county has produced more internationals per capita than any other area of England.

    ------------------------Jim Montgomery
    John Craggs--Colin Todd--Giuseppe Wilson--Frank Clark
    -----------------Bryan Robson--Colin Bell
    Sammy Crooks--------Raich Carter----------Chris Waddle
    --------------------------George Camsell

    Subs: Eddie Hopkinson, Willie Maddren, Norman Hunter, Paul Gascoigne, Stan Anderson, Stan Mortensen, George Elliot.

    Right back is the weak spot, but the midfield is superb and they're never going to be short of goals.
     
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  12. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    How does it compare to a Northumberland XI (with Jackie Milburn, Bobby Charlton, Peter Beardsley) or a general 'rest of the North-East' XI?
     
  13. lanman

    lanman BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 30, 2002
    Northumberland is overflowing with attacking options, but quite lacking at the back. Would need Kevin Keegan to manage them, and they would certainly be entertaining. They wouldn't have anything like the quality of Robson and Bell in midfield.
    The rest of the North East really only includes urban Teesside south of the Tees. Wilf Mannion, George Hardwick and Brian Clough would likely be the only players to consider.
    I probably wouldn't change much from the starting team for a North East XI. Charlton for Carter, Shearer for Camsell and Hardwick for Clark. The bench would be stronger, with Mannion, Carter, Camsell, Mortensen, Milburn, Beardsley, Jack Charlton and Ray Kennedy all possible options.
     
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  14. annoyedbyneedoflogin

    Juventus Football Clube Ajax Mineiro de Deportes
    Jun 11, 2012
    The county of Durham has 855 900 inhabitants. Amsterdam holds 825 080 inhabitants (Spanish Wikipedia)

    Amsterdam XI
    1 Jan van Beveren
    2 Mario Melchiot
    3 Ruud Krol
    4 Frank Rijkaard
    5 Rinus Israel
    6 Nigel de Jong
    7 Jan de Natris
    8 Ruud Gullit
    9 Johan Cruijff
    10 Dennis Bergkamp
    11 Piet Keizer

    Subs: Eddy Pieters Graafland, Daley Blind, Gregory van der Wiel, Richard/Rob Witsche, Sjaak Swart, Rob Rensenbrink, Patrick Kluivert
     
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  15. Gregoriak

    Gregoriak BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 27, 2002
    Munich
    Because he was a better and more dominant player and the first "great" player in Hamburg's history. Deficiencies in character are ignored in this selection.
     
  16. annoyedbyneedoflogin

    Juventus Football Clube Ajax Mineiro de Deportes
    Jun 11, 2012
    Paramaribo (240 000 inhabitants) XI

    1 Stanley Menzo
    2 Kew Jaliens
    3 Edson Braafheid
    4 Humphrey Mijnals
    5 Winston Bogarde
    6 Edgar Davids
    7 Romeo Castelen
    8 Aron Winter
    9 Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink
    10 Clarence Seedorf
    11 Eljero Elia

    Subs: Kenneth Vermeer, Jerry de Jong, Ulrich van Gobbel, Dean Gorré, Marciano Vink, Andwelé Slory, Regi Blinker
     
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  17. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord

    Utrecht is 2.5 times as small and is also relatively strong. Especially when one starts to include the players who moved there before the age of 1 and lived there their entire childhood (e.g. Van Hanegem). In 1986 there was an occasion where 8 of the 11 starting players for the national team came from Utrecht IIRC (this need to be re-checked but it was high - in part because of the internal office politics, for sure).

    The province of Zeeland has done fairly good too, the more so since it is traditionally an 'old' province (an older population), had never a single professional football club, few amateur clubs of note (i.e. the domestically famous Elinkwijk in Utrecht), is not densely populated at all. It is actually a bit of a mystery.

    Recently (last two decades) Groningen has been responsible for a good chunk of the most expensive players, including Robben and Van Dijk. It is for sure the poorest province and region of the country.


    Likewise, the Belgian player pool is (historically) lopsided towards the northern provinces/regions despite for a long time being smaller in population.
    Even though the last two tournaments were extreme in this respect, with only two (three if you like) players coming from the southerns parts (Wallonia). Eden Hazard was one of those two (moved at the age of 14 to France, just a few kilometers across the border, to the well-funded and supported Lille/FFF academy system).
     
  18. annoyedbyneedoflogin

    Juventus Football Clube Ajax Mineiro de Deportes
    Jun 11, 2012
    I actually tried an Utrecht xi, discounting Zeeland's v Hanegem and players from Nieuwegein etc.
    Its similar to Northumberland, quite poor defensively, v Breukelen being the exception.
     
  19. Gregoriak

    Gregoriak BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 27, 2002
    Munich
    Eintracht Frankfurt Bundesliga XI

    -----------------------11 Bernd HÖLZENBEIN-------------9 Anthony YEBOAH

    --------------------------------------------10 Jürgen GRABOWSKI
    ---2 Bum Kun CHA------6 Bernd NICKEL-----8 Uwe BEIN--7 Andreas MÖLLER

    -----------------3 Willi NEUBERGER---------------4 Karl-Heinz KÖRBEL
    -------------------------------------------5 Bruno PEZZEY

    -------------------------------------------1 Ulrich STEIN


    Cha with the unfitting #2 but there was no other number left!
     
  20. annoyedbyneedoflogin

    Juventus Football Clube Ajax Mineiro de Deportes
    Jun 11, 2012
    What position does Cha play?
     
  21. Gregoriak

    Gregoriak BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 27, 2002
    Munich
    Left midfield
     
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  22. annoyedbyneedoflogin

    Juventus Football Clube Ajax Mineiro de Deportes
    Jun 11, 2012
    Italy low cap (<20) XI

    This one is highly subjective and open for discussion.
    [​IMG]
     
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  23. annoyedbyneedoflogin

    Juventus Football Clube Ajax Mineiro de Deportes
    Jun 11, 2012
    I forgot about Superga airdisaster! With Virgilio Maroso and Valentino Mazzola;
    [​IMG]
     
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  24. Gregoriak

    Gregoriak BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 27, 2002
    Munich
    VfB Stuttgart Bundesliga XI

    ----------------------------------9 Mario GOMEZ

    --11 Hans MÜLLER---10 Asgeir SIGURVINSSON---7 Gilbert GRESS
    -------------------8 Matthias SAMMER-------2 Karl ALLGÖWER
    -------------------------------6 Guido BUCHWALD

    ------------------3 Bernd FÖRSTER------4 Karlheinz FÖRSTER
    -----------------------------5 Klaus-Dieter SIELOFF

    -----------------------------------1 Eike IMMEL
     
  25. Gregoriak

    Gregoriak BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 27, 2002
    Munich
    Same for Germany (post 1945 only as few pre-1945 players amassed more than 20 caps):


    ---11 Georg VOLKERT----9 Erwin KOSTEDDE----7 Bernhard KLODT

    ---------------10 Uwe BEIN----------------------8 Alfred PFAFF
    ------------------------------6 Franz-Josef TENHAGEN

    ----3 Jakob STREITLE-----4 Werner LIEBRICH--------2 Erich RETTER
    -----------------------------------5 Horst BLANKENBURG

    -----------------------------------------1 Ulrich STEIN
     
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