Here is Ferenc Puskas his team. #410, 16 july 1977 He suggests in the article that even Pelé is not of Di Stefano his level, but elsewhere there are also other remarks saying the reverse (e.g. Pelé a class above all others).
I posted this before but John Greig, who is known as the "Greatest Ever Ranger", had a two part series about the best and his most favorite players. June 1977. He doesn't make an 'XI' out of it but it can easily be made from the players he mentions.
Yes I think so. I saw around that time (31 July 1977) Kevin Keegan made an Europe XI with contemporary players. Keegan himself was a pundit or 'experts' for ITV at the 1978 World Cup and then the 1986 World Cup. Keegan finished 2nd in the 1977 Ballon d'Or. Came three points shorts yet had the most 1st place votes (11 versus 7 and 5).
You are coming up with a lot of these good excerpts Puck, and I thought this was definitely an interesting one (maybe even more than Gray's as Keegan became a manager rather than a pundit, and also did pick more of a contemporary team though I don't mean to say Gray's all-time or 'his time' one wasn't interesting too). One thing to note is though I highly doubt it was deliberately calculated that way and it wouldn't have much effect if it was probably, he left out his two eventual rivals for 1977 Ballon d'Or, Allan Simonsen and Michel Platini. With that in mind, maybe a Europe 'B' selection could have given his team a great game even in the latter part of 1977 as a 'warm up' for the suggested game with South America, with a team like this perhaps: Shilton; Scirea; Battiston, Zmuda, Krol; Simonsen, Platini, Tardelli, Robertson; Rep, Rensenbrink, with as sub perhaps appropriately the upcoming Liverpool player Dalglish (who'd shown he had a lot of quality already for Celtic). I'm thinking it's not too early for Battiston and Tardelli (both Internationals by around that time and Tardelli's DBS Calcio ratings are top 40 for 76/77 and top 10 for 77/78 in Serie A) and I didn't want to overdo it with Forest players by adding Anderson and Gemmill too lol (though if I can't overdo it in that era then I never can!). On the other hand I thought perhaps it was early for Paolo Rossi slightly, so put Rep central in attack as I know he was in top form around that sort of era in general. I remember Keegan actually put Zmuda's WC partner Gorgon in some all-time selection he made (discussed when Excape Goat drafted Gorgon in some draft, and IIRC Keegan had similar reasoning to that he used for McQueen I think in creating very much a sweeper/stopper scenario). I wondered about Lato as another Pole, who could have gone on the right wing, but I thought in some ways Simonsen/Rensenbrink as a partnership might lack a bit of scoring/poaching instinct although arguably Keegan's front 3 also does and relies on speed and ball skills though Blokhin did score quite a few goals I suppose and could be a clinical finisher even if not a master striker as such. I liked his Rocheteau pick anyway, and I guess putting Blokhin as striker allows plenty of guile from the wide attacking positions he gave to Rocheteau and Causio who he seems very impressed by at that time, and puts him in as the Italian attacker rather than Rossi (especially understandable as he picked the team mid calendar year) or Bettega who was another doing well re: the Ballon d'Or ofc. I know Krol wasn't any longer a left back but putting him there seemed to make sense anyway. The nearest actual selection from around that time for comparison purposes might be the Rest of the World one in 1979 vs Argentina (including Zico and some other non-Europeans ofc though too): http://www.11v11.com/matches/argentina-v-rest-of-the-world-25-june-1979-235302/
Yes thanks. There are actually also pieces by Peter Shilton (and Viv Anderson). Will look at what I can find. Gray his level of analysis is actually fairly remarkable for such young player at the time. After he made his selection he played with Villa against Barcelona in March 1978, at 22 years old, and since you like to know what he said about Cruijff (who was half-fit and had missed days of training, see the other thread) it is this: "Johan Cruyff showed his full range of skills at times. He drifted in and out of the game, popping up at right-back, midfield and in attack. Maybe after 13 years of being kicked around that's how he approaches the game. Mind you, when he WAS in the match he really made his presence felt, scoring one goal and narrowly missing another." Gray felt they played equally well, could have won, had a less lopsided team and squad in terms of quality (remember: Neeskens didn't play), but that experience was a difference. You can see he had some aptitude for being a pundit later and writing a decent book, but yes Keegan has as extra accolade that he was (more than) a half-decent manager. Anyway, I'll look at if and what I can find for Shilton. For now, this is also nice and a perfect fit for the thread. The most valuable team in the league #Shoot! 1978-08-12 pic.twitter.com/Fp4KcnNm9L— Scottish Footy Cards (@ScotsFootyCards) June 25, 2016 John Robertson his favorite players were Kenny Dalglish and Liam Brady.
Thanks - interesting to see again, and Gray's eloquence as a young player (a typical ish centre forward too rather than creative midfielder or something) is striking yeah (maybe his 'extrovert' personality did fit well with giving his opinions publically just as it did in making him a commentator later though to an extent?). Trevor Francis's price tag became subject to a bit of inflation over the next months lol! John Robertson did intriguingly pick his own One2Eleven (can't see it available on the Sky website or Youtube) and leave out Dalglish recently, but in the main he picked Forest players and loyalty maybe played a part in that I guess: 4-4-2 Shilton; Anderson, Burns, Lloyd, Clark/Barrett; O'Neill, Souness, Bowyer/A.Gemmill, Storey-Moore; Birtles, Woodcock.
For 1980 he had a column about the PFA player of the year. Prt 1, prt 2. And his own ideal XI. Some good info there, such as that after he himself won both young player & player of the year, the PFA changed regulations and banned a player to be eligible for both categories.
Yeah, that's pretty detailed analysis for a current player - I guess not unprecedented but unusual probably (I remember it more from the likes of Jimmy Greaves long after he'd retired - in later years he did have a piece in Shoot as you might have noticed, where he answered letters from readers; as well as being on the TV show Saint & Greavsie with Ian St John of course which was like a football round-up show mainly for the top league I think. I'm not sure whether he picked any seasonal XI's himself or not though).
Re: Player of the Year and Young Player of the Year, it'd be interesting to know when that changed back then and exactly what the protocol was for voting. I guess we can assume for example the following season Hoddle could not have won both then (but surely if they really wanted players could vote for him as Player of the Year instead of Young Player of the Year at least), while we know Cristiano Ronaldo did take both awards, although curiously: "striker Harry Kane has been named the PFA Young Player of the Year, seeing off the challenge of Chelsea's Eden Hazard, who has won the main award" http://www.goal.com/en/news/9/engla...ne-named-pfa-young-player-of-the?ICID=HP_BN_2 (It can be that some/many voted for Kane as Young Player and an older player as Player of the Year of course, but maybe some voted for Hazard for the main award and not for Young Player for whatever reason - for example did some vote for Hazard as Player of the Year and Kane as Young Player?). In between Giggs comes to mind and I don't know off the top of my head if he'd have been eligible for both (but firstly what I said about Hoddle applies and secondly Cantona didn't take it over McGrath so probably very doubtful Giggs would have done too - I don't think I've seen the shortlist for that season to see if Giggs was on it for the main award too).
Aha, Ian Rush did take the main award while under 23 years of age of course. So that probably confirms that under 23's could always be eligible for the main award (even if in a lot of years fellow players might not vote for such players unless they were really certain they thought the player had been the best candidate?). So the only question is when it changed back, and what sort of confusion was caused in the meantime - Rush had won the Young Player award already of course, but Giggs won it twice in a row albeit about a decade later. On the face of it, 2010/11 seems even more curious than 2012/13, as Bale, two years younger, took the main award and not the Young Player one but did take both two years later right on the verge of being too old. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/13110874 However I guess, though this might go against C.Ronaldo taking both in 06/07 and not 07/08 if anything, the more clearly a player is considered the main candidate for the main award the better chance he might have for the Young Player award too, and as Gray was saying for 79/80 maybe some years are lacking obvious winners and the vote would get split a lot which maybe let Bale in for the main award in 2010/11 with I'm guessing not a really high percentage of the votes - re: the other thread where I posted DBS Calcio's 'Players of the Season' I had had a think through what my votes might have been or might be retrospectively (which is not always easy to do!) but for that year I wondered whether I might even have gone with Bale's team-mate Modric, with other candidates Van der Vaart from Tottenham too (and he did appear on the shortlist though Modric took Tottenham's Player of the Season award), and possibly Man City's Yaya Toure who would rely mainly on the latter part of the season IIRC including after voting was finalised probably, and Silva who maybe was the opposite case if anything with impressive autumn/winter form in his first season in England. Bale was probably most regarded for a non-PL performance that season, away in Milan vs Inter, I suppose.
I'd not seen this one before, but interesting what pops up sometimes when searching for something else - here is David Pleat's XI from all the players he managed: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2010/jan/21/david-pleat-50-years-dream-team Ray Clemence; Dan Petrescu, Richard Gough, Mal Donaghy, Gary Mabbutt; Gary McAllister, Brian Horton, Glenn Hoddle; Paolo Di Canio, Clive Allen, David Ginola.
In the same issue where I read the 1976 PFA nominees there was also an interview with Osvaldo Piazza of St Etienne. He received several questions and said: "About Blochin, [other than watching him] I have only played against him on these two occassions and I would say he is a very, very good player, but certainly not in the class of Gerd Müller, Cruyff or [previously] Pelé. [...] Without doubt, Santos FC were the best [club team I played against] - in the time that Pelé was playing for them. They had a lot of very talented players, with Pelé the master of them all. They were criticized by some people because they had a poor defense but Brazilians by their nature are attacking players. [...] Gerd Müller is particularly dangerous. I didn't really have problems with him when I have played against him but he showed enough. He is the type who can receive goals at any time." So obviously Keegan his selection is not without discussion!
Yeah, Muller's scoring rate had not exactly dipped anyway (or had risen again after it did dip). I didn't even put him in my attempted 'B' Team I suppose to be fair and he wasn't in the running for Ballon d'Or by 1977, but whether he'd still make an 'ideal' XI given lack of other out and out striker types might be a topic for discussion (I don't mean now so much as it could have been if a Europe XI was being picked at the time).
Interesting Combined England & Scotland selection by Graeme Souness from his playing days in today's Sunday Times. pic.twitter.com/G4CZPY7RsK— Beyond The Last Man (@BeyondTLM) November 6, 2016
^ so it's (post #1064): Clemence - McGrain, Hansen, Gough, Sansom - Strachan, Robson, McDermtt, Robertson - Keegan, Dalglish. Coach : Stein. Now : Mark Lawrenson once again but for a World All-time XI this time ('focus on') : Banks - Kaltz, Moore, Beckenbauer, Breitner - Charlton, Brady - Best, Cruyff, Pelé, Maradona. Ray Kennedy Banks, Kaltz, Beckenbauer, Moore, Breitner, Peters, Charlton, Brady, Best, Dalglish, Pelé. Gerry Armstrong (NIR) Jennings, McGrain, Krol, Beckenbauer, Cooper, Jairzinho, Cruyff, Charlton, Pelé, Law, Best. Ken McNaught (Villa) Yashin; C.Alberto, Krol, Beckenbauer, McGrain; Cruyff, Gerson, Baxter; Pelé, Law, Maradona Mark Wright (when at Southampton) Best ever XI : England's 1966 World Cup winner. Mickey Hazard Banks, C.Alberto, Beckenbauer, Krol, Wilson, Giles, Ardilès, Mardona, Best, Pelé, Cruijff. Found via here : https://twitter.com/Focus_Off where there is certainly much more again (I can see Kenny Swain's AT11 now, Villa player : Banks, McGrain, Beckenbauer, Krol, Cooper, Gerson, Bremner, Charlton, Cruyff, Müller, Pelé). Martin Jol favourite other team (he's at Wes Bro) : Atletico Mineiro (Brazilian club) who has Reinaldo, Cerezo and others.
I don't want to overdo it but this was one of the other articles I had in mind (I can't process it that fast!) This was at the end of the 1979 calendar year (it might fit as well in the Keegan thread I thought, but it deserves a proper scan). Platini and Rossi his choices are maybe also something for this thread? (cross comparing) http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads...-the-century-who-voted-for-who.1597402/page-9
Yes, Rossi's answer seems maybe what could have been expected from Platini re: best all-time player at that point. Maybe Platini changed his mind between those two a lot, or maybe he hadn't 'seen' Pele enough at that point even? Maybe Rossi added Maradona and Platini to a top 4 he would find hard to separate but he placed Pele first in the end? The combined XI from those selections seems definitely to be in a 4-3-3 and as follows: Fillol; Kaltz, Krol, Passarella, Cabrini; Ardiles, Bonhof, Platini; Causio, Rossi, Kempes.
After a quick read for now, interesting to see that Platini picks Brandts in his 11 (as ASSE beats PSV by 6-nil in '79, 2 goals by Platini incl. 1 on fk)
Just as a check (since it doesn't include the 1978 & 1979 EPotY); I count 6 mentions/inclusions for Keegan, 5 for Kempes, 10 for Rossi, 7 for Causio, 6 for Ardiles, 6 for Platini, 5 for Bonhof. I stopped there with counting; correct me if I'm wrong. But by the look of it, Keegan might just shoe in as midfielder or attacker?
Ah, perhaps - I'll let you know if I count differently. Because everyone was using 4-3-3 I was counting by each section of the team, and Keegan (and Kempes) had votes split between midfield and attack (but with Kempes having enough for the attack to be included - what is uncertain is whether those that put Keegan in midfield would prefer him in attack to Kempes or others but maybe it's hard to know the fairest way to do it with this unusual situation - perhaps going ultra-attacking it's ok to put Keegan in Bonhof's place but maybe that's different to how most were doing it, as opposed to putting Krol and Passarella together as CB's being more common, so even though Ardiles was anchoring Tottenham's midfield at least if not Argentina's, maybe that would be a stretch).
Actually, I'm not really sure I'd say Ardiles was anchoring Tottenham's midfield but more like playing as a central midfielder (or right midfielder) at that stage and I think the diamond (or 4-4-2 with him partnering Hoddle in the centre even) came mainly in the early 80's. So maybe his Tottenham role was not so different from his Argentina NT one at that point in time. Yes though, it is hard to call an overall XI, especially as Leao's choice is unclear (he hasn't dropped any players from the World XI) and even though it's doubtful given he named Dalglish and Krankl too, if he intended Keegan for attack then he'd have as many inclusions for that section of the team as Kempes (not as many specifting him on the left of the 3 I suppose though if being that precise) and one more overall. He also has one more than Bonhof, but less in midfield (even with Leao meaning for him to be there) and more players choose a midfield with two box to box types rather than with two playmakers indeed (although it's close-ish after Zico and possibly Leao go against that - interesting/'weird?' to see no Zico in any other line-up though!).
Given more put Ardiles on the right of the midfield 3, and more put Keegan in the middle (Bonhof only once in that slot) maybe Ardiles-Keegan-Platini would be the choice. But like I said more have a more cautious balance than that and Keegan was not playing in exactly that role in reality was he (even if it's deemed the more attacking of the 3 midfield roles as per Deyna arguably or Cruyff in the 80's back at Ajax - it's in more recent years I suppose that the central player of the 3 would always tend to be the most defensive or combative or just an anchor player like Makelele). Maybe it is hard to pick between Pezzey, Krol and Passarella on the same basis, although Krol has to be in I think and Cabrini has more votes at left back (which wasn't anymore Krol's position even though he put himself there) and Krol only has one for right-back. Whether Pezzey was more a 'centre-back' and less a 'sweeper' than Passarella at that point is maybe an argument (as a minority overall did put Krol and Passarella together I suppose, as opposed to a different combination that was less double-libero like even if they could surely play as two normal centre-backs in theory or one could play more like a marker than the other - probably Passarella I'd think).
Yes, you're right sorry - at first glance I'd seen that and then when I was looking at what place in the team Krol had been given I must've looked at his team wrong or too quick (even though I'd noted Cabrini in his team originally I think!). Only him, Kaltz, Zico and I guess Leao (last two debateable - did Zico name the team himself and did he mean Maradona in his own place even?) named themselves but I think Kaltz and Krol have enough mentions anyway (Kaltz for right back and Krol as top mentioned defender IIRC).
I think, just as with 1977 and Keegan's World XI, that probably a very good alternative XI can be made that should certainly give the consensus XI (perhaps again with Keegan as sub we could say, and again actually Dalglish could be sub too) a good and competitive game at the end of 1979. I'm thinking it could look like as follows: Shilton; Battiston, K.H Forster, Hansen, Bossis; Falcao, Breitner, Antognoni; Zico, Maradona; Rummenigge (or maybe even with Antognoni in the central midfield slot, playing as described in one of my above posts as the main midfield playmaker between two who would play more as box to box players) Sub: Dalglish