In your opinion, how much did the loss of Stu Holden and Charlie Davies hurt the NT this decade?

My obligatory all-what-could-have-been 2010 USMNT WC team post:

F: Rossi, Ibisevic, Davies, Gomez, Altidore
M: Donovan, Dempsey, O'Brien, Holden, Jones, Beckerman, Feilhaber, Beasley
D: FabJo, Cherundolo, Hangeland, Subotic, Onyewu, Gibbs, Poulsen
GK: Howard, Friedel, Hahnemann

 

why Friedel? I mean it's 1 thing if a player was injured or out of form or overlooked due to a manager's reasoning but ole Brad willing retired.

 

Forgot about Hangeland.

Holden was a very good player. Not sure if Holden was destined to play for Arsenal or Man Utd but certainly wouldn't have stayed at Bolton. Unfortunate with his injuries, very tidy player in the middle of the field. I still have his no. 11 jersey from 2010. Sigh.

Davies' injury hurt us in 2010 but I don't think it set the entire program back. I remember he was on a podcast, I think it was. He was pleading his case to the public and to Bob Bradley that he was healthy and 100%. Might have been an interview with French media. I don't recall. Anyways, he of course wasn't ready to come back and play for the national team or Sochaux.

Definitely see some similarities in Bobby Wood's game to Davies.

 

gah......yeah quite a few of those hurt. Just looking at the goalkeeping pool there makes me sad alone.

 

Stuart Holden was a cerebral midfielder with good skill on the ball and passing ability. He was also incredibly versatile, and capable of sliding out to the wing and putting in a good shift. His work rate was also tremendous. He was really hitting his stride in 2010/2011, and I think he could have been a very good player for us during the 2014 cycle in this type of system:

---------------Altidore---------------
----Dempsey--------------Donovan
----------Jones-------Holden-------
----------------Bradley---------------
Beasley----------------------Johnson
-----------Besler---Cameron---------
---------------Howard-----------------

Remember that, even with the Bradley-Jones glut in central midfield, Maurice Edu earned 23 combined caps in 2011 & 2012. Jose Torres earned 12 combined caps in 2012 & 2013. A healthy, in-form Holden would've been better than both of those guys, IMO.

He was definitely a #8 with the ability to slide out and play on the wing, so he would've competed a lot with Jermaine Jones and Michael Bradley, but I really liked his game. His emergence at the 2009 Gold Cup was one of the underrated factors in improving our depth off the bench when we hit that great stride of form in the fall of 2009. If he had stayed healthy, I could definitely see him being a starter at the #8 next to Michael Bradley in Bruce Arena's current national team set up (where, it looks like we're currently looking at Sacha Kljestan or Jermaine Jones as starters).

As for Charlie Davies, I don't think he would've been a bonafide star for the national team, but he was definitely an important player once he emerged in the Egypt match during the 2009 Confederations Cup, and he changed the way we played. So much so that Bob Bradley took Robbie Findley to the World Cup in 2010 to try to replicate our style of play. Davies was a great speed forward who could run the channels and open up space for Jozy Altidore and our wide midfielders (Landon Donovan and Clint Dempsey) to score.

While he only had 4 goals in 17 caps, he was just hitting his stride, and as @LouisianaViking07/09 notes, he influenced the game in more ways than just goals. Look at his assist to Landon Donovan vs. Brazil in the 2009 Confederations Cup final (which, by the way, is my favorite USMNT goal of all-time). Had he stayed healthy, I think Davies would've started every match at the 2010 World Cup, and likely would've been an important player during the 2014 cycle, taking a lot of the minutes that otherwise went to Herculez Gomez in 2012 & 2013, Eddie Johnson in 2013, and Chris Wondolowski in 2013 & 2014. In many ways, Bobby Wood's game reminds me of how Charlie Davies used to play.

I think, with a healthy and in-form Davies and Holden, we would've had a better chance to beat Ghana in the Round of 16 at the 2010 World Cup, would've been a better team at the 2011 Gold Cup, and would've won more games in 2012 (where we struggled a lot in the semifinal round of World Cup qualifying). I also think we could've been better in 2014 (which could've pushed us over Belgium in the Round of 16), and would not have struggled as much in 2015 at the Gold Cup, for example (where we were already without Jermaine Jones and Jozy Altidore, for example).

 

It gave others a chance to step up.

 

Yeah it def was French media. I remember the club was saying he might be ready and he def was saying he was like 80% and most fans (including I) figured he at 80% was better than Findley at 100%. We were way wrong. It seemed as if Bob really crushed his dreams (though of course Davies wasn't ready and Bob knew it)

 

One's level of affliction for our team will only grow after having beers with one Stuart Holden.
Damn what mighta been.
Davies was an ideal srtike partner for Jozy, that 2009 team that beat Spain.

 

The counterattack goal against Brazil in the Confed Cup final was textbook work with Davies and Donovan.

 

I mean hell, if we're playing that game, John O'Brien turned 33 a few months after the 2010 WC. It's very likely he would've been on that squad, maybe not as a starter but as a valued utility reserve, if he'd stayed healthy.

 

His loss coincided with Bolton dropping down pretty quickly, so I would say that it was more traumatic to BWFC fans than USNT fans. Where would he have fit in? Instead of MB or JJ? Nope and Nope. JJ is a freak athletically, and MB was the favored son and heir to the central midfield role. All that would have happened if he was healthy is a lot of hand wringing about why Holden isn't playing more as opposed to the other two.

 

Huge.

At one point you could have had Davies, Holden, Donovan, and Dempsey at or near their peak. Do not forget that Onyewu's injury was massive as well. Before his knee gave out, he was becoming a dominant defender.

With all healthy, the US could have been a Top 10 team.

 

now you have me even more annoyed at Davies and that pointless Gooch injury against CR.

hell we'd have topped our group with perhaps all 3 wins and beat Ghana and gone toe to toe with Uruguay

 

Not really. Bob hinted at going to a 3-man central midfield had Stu not gotten injured. But he was also an excellent flanker. There was plenty of tactical flexibility with the player.

 

A possible left back for a team that needed a left back.

And Jermaine Jones. He had a very good 2009 before his injury. That 2010 team had a lot of what ifs and it isn't all about the play on the field.

 

Davies gave the US as shown in the Confed Cup, a world class counter attacking partnership with Donovan. Not just that but he inspired his team with his personality. People forget how important that can be for a team.

Stu for me, during his brief spell with Bolton was the best US player I had ever seen win the tackle, keep his head up, and send ATTACKING pass with precision all virtually in the same motion. This is Philip Lamb stuff, the moving tackle and pass. Stu was a sophisticated step beyond any CM in our player pool at the time or since.

I doubt Bob would have played him though. Need I say why?

 

Good point, we went with Bornstein at LB most of that tournament. A 33-year-old JOB likely wouldn't have started at CM even if he'd had a healthy career over healthy/available/still good Holden, Bradley, and Jones, but could have quite possibly started at LB.

 

ugh right in the feels. Top 5 players lost to country affiliation & injury

1. Rossi - We never had him, but he would have most likely be the most talented striker the U.S. has ever had and would have been U.S. legend. Perfect compliment to Jozy as well which makes it more sad. (He also had injury problems so I don't actually know if he was available in 2010.)

2. Stu - He was really coming into his own in the EPL before the injuries. Very versatile player, would have created more competition for midfield spots which generally means elevated play from everyone.

3. Subotic - He played a position of need in CB\LB. This one really stung because he played for our youth teams.

4. JOB - before my time, but from what I've read \ seen one of the best U.S. players of all time that had his career cut short.

5. Charlie Davies - more because our striker pool is so bad more than him being a great player.
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Most other players Convey, Gooch, etc had pretty lengthy nat careers despite their injuries.

 

Barely at all. Holden was wildly overrated by this board (but was a decent player) and Davies was a one trick pony.

 

Both of them were coming into their own at the time of their injuries, but there's no indication whether that would have been the norm or if they were just having one of those once-in-a-career seasons at the time. Their body of work for the national team was too small to make very many projections. Lots of guys (Feilhaber and Johnson come immediately to mind) played out of this world for us in the beginning before settling back to a more terrestrial level.

That said, Davies was a perfect complement to the team's style of play. Even if he wasn't particularly prolific in the goals department, he had that oh-so-valuable combination of speed and knowing when and where to run. The guys around him played better when he was on the field. We weren't able to replace that for years afterward.

 

and yet they still were among the best players we had in our pool during their time with the NT

 

We were right there in 2010, I would argue that if you are in ET in the knockouts that is significant territory.