In with the new - Summer 2019 transfer thread

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by chjoak, Feb 1, 2019.

  1. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Yeah, this is why Liverpool have done so well

    A defined style, rarely change tactics, plAyers in specific roles

    Defined roles (wijnaldem and Henderson are not spectacular individuals but work in klopps system)
     
  2. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Agreed.

    Especially they have not had to spend much on their midfield.
     
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  3. footykid

    footykid Member+

    Jan 10, 2005
    Mississauga, Ont
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    Coming up with a style of play is THE investment strategy. I don't know why clubs don't seem to understand this at all.
     
  4. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Naby Keita and Fabinho weren’t cheap
     
  5. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    But they suit their team roles exactly
     
  6. Super Llama

    Super Llama Member+

    May 21, 2006
    Seattle
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    That's not alpha, that's beta. It's timing the market.
     
  7. casoccerdad47

    casoccerdad47 Member+

    Mar 31, 2006
    Ox wasn't either.
     
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  8. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    IMO beta is just the "index" of the market.

    So if you wisely invested in some talent in 2016, you made huge gains by 2019 as the tide raised all boats

    Alpha is a true market outperformance - so realising Salah was better than his Chelsea performance.

    One way to find value is where the asset has a potential that other investors either don't recognise, or can't realise

    I agree that once the market catches up, those assets won't be undervalued anymore.

    That's what happened to Wenger with his youth strategy
     
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  9. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Agreed - the alignment of the entire organisation is so critical.

    LvG recently made this criticism of Utd. Their issue is not scouting, or players or management in particular. The issue is the lack of alignment between front office, first team and management.

    e.g. they hire Jose but pursue a talent strategy that doesn't fit with him.

    Jordan Henderson and Milner don't suddenly take europe by storm at advanced ages because of Klopp's charisma.
     
  10. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    This is true, but Liverpool's system only works because VVD is a mutant velociraptor on speed.
     
  11. Super Llama

    Super Llama Member+

    May 21, 2006
    Seattle
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Alpha to me might be the process by which you are continually ahead of the market as opposed to momentarily, or for an instant. As you said, for example, Liverpool's edge will be taken away once other clubs (like Real etc) hire their personnel and adopt their philosophies. But this may be quibbling over definitions.
     
  12. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Nice column by Stilberto

    Basically KSE is bullshitting us

     
  13. Rewinder

    Rewinder Member+

    Jun 24, 2004
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    We seem to have won a small victory with Saliba choosing us over sp*rs, but we are not going to get to enjoy the fruit of that until next season. Our defense still needs a capable CB added this season or we are basically conceding that top 4 spot to manutd.
     
  14. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Alpha? You mean good scouts? There is no way to know how good a player will be

    Liverpool work so well due to their system and the intensity of their play

    You could mix and match players, even from us who might look better in their team.
     
  15. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And that they don't know what they're doing. Nor do they seem to care much.

    No shit Sherlock.
     
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  16. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    This new Mislintat interview is so depressing. Link:

    https://arseblog.com/2019/07/o-captain-my-captain/

    A few quotes:

    He said: “Previously we had a strong systematic approach to transfers, a mixture of watching things live as well as quality data and video analysis – Arsenal actually owns their own data company.

    “That meant that we acted independently, we knew about all markets and players in all positions that came into question. However, the new leadership work more strongly with what they are offered from clubs or agents through their own networks.”

    Quintuple facepalm.
     
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  17. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    So we have data but only take cheap offers and deals

    What’s the point?
     
  18. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Sigh
     
  19. ArsenalJake

    ArsenalJake Member+

    Feb 11, 2013
    Charlotte
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #1369 ArsenalJake, Jul 19, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2019
    I agree, but consider the source. He was promised a job by the old regime and the new regime had other plans. I'm sure there is some truth to what he said, but he's naturally going to have a skewed version of what's what. We all would in that situation.

    People have said here that the guys we have now are more reliant on their networks, that information isn't new. The piece that was new (to me anyway) is that Arsenal owns a data analytics company. SERIOUSLY?? How long has that been true? Did Wenger know that? Anyway, I'm sure the truth on how things are being done today lies somewhere in the middle. You don't just bring in a few guys with networks and scrap the data analytics program. That statement is sour grapes from a guy who didn't get the job.
     
  20. Tonerl

    Tonerl Member+

    Arsenal
    May 10, 2006
    Cincinnati, OH
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Arsenal bought StatDNA in 2012. There’s been a lot of speculation about what they have and haven’t been involved with and how much influence they’ve actually had, but no one really knows.
     
  21. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    The thing to remember about StatDNA is they are essentially decision support and market intel - whomever is the boss. From what I have read from Ted and others, they have a very good rep.

    What disturbs me most about the Sven saga is supposedly Arse was being rebuilt by attracting elite talent. This is a talent business after all. So when a top talent leaves so quick - that is not a good sign.

    Maybe Sven is just an arsehole, but what he says jives with what we already knew.

    Going back to agent lead approaches is going back to the traditional english club dinosaur model.

    Everything would seem to depend on the Brazil angle.
     
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  22. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    That is't what he said. Stat DNA will be used whichever approach Arse use.

    Sven is talking about the fundamental talent model. The Sven approach is not relationship lead but insight led.

    Ed Woodward has used the opposite approach at Utd where talent attraction is effectively outsourced to favoured agents.
     
  23. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Exactly. If Mislintat is to be believed, the model is going to be something like "agents are pitching players to us". Whereas the model should be something like "we need X type of player in 2020, Y in 2021, here are the players that fit the profiles we need". It's a mindbogglingly stupid approach. It's so stupid that one's first reaction is "there's no way they do this". Except that this is exactly what Manchester United did. It's practically malpractice.
     
  24. maskito

    maskito Member+

    Arsenal
    Jan 14, 2006
    Nashville
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Does anyone think the previous model (with Mislintat) was all that successful? Honestly, I don't think it produced quality results that we all would expect either.
     
  25. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    He was only there 14 months!

    Supposedly Douzi is a Sven pick.

    It is said Sokratis and Auba were also Sven but clearly you don't need to be Sven to "find" Auba at BvB

    IIRC in that case, he was supposedly important to attracting them - but that is not his job per se
     
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