Impact of Nations Leagues (UEFA original, Concacaf) on World Football? [Multiple R]

Discussion in 'FIFA and Tournaments' started by Nico Limmat, Mar 27, 2014.

  1. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I have to ask @Nico Limmat : what's the general opinion among fans and pundits in Europe about the Nations League schedule? Fine as it is, or do they want more, e.g. changing League A to 3 groups of 4 so that everyone's playing Nations League each matchday rather than having two friendlies in-between?
     
  2. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    If league A and B had 4 team groups, it would leave group D with only 7 teams. Then you surely couldn’t have a league D team qualify for the Euros (not necessarily a bad thing)
     
  3. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why so? I'm not saying expand the leagues, but rather possibly reorganizing them to have the same 12 teams in 3 groups of 4 so that everyone's playing 6 group stage games instead of 4.
     
  4. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    So the best second-place team would go to the playoffs? Hmm.. that would be a bit messy/unfair. Also the promotion/relegation between leagues B and C would be awkward since one league would have 3 groups and the other has 4 groups. Unless you reduce the # of teams in league C, but that would mean we have 5 leagues.
    { Just highlighting that it would create alot of changes to the format and structure of thr NL besides merely the # of games teams play.}
     
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  5. Thezzaruz

    Thezzaruz Member+

    Jun 20, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Sweden
    I haven't seen anyone having issues with some groups having 3 and some having 4.

    As @BocaFan noted it would make for a lot of structural issues with the competition that would be quite difficult to fix.

    I'll also note that it wouldn't be popular to eliminate friendlies almost completely for the best UEFA teams.
     
  6. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    Good
     
  7. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    I haven't seen much format driven discussion and direct calls for groups of four but the general consensus is that UNL is much better than friendlies. But as raised, increasing the numbers in the groups brings other format issues with it.

    I'm all in favor of 4-team groups in all levels if the format issues can be resolved.
     
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  8. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    I am still a fan of the NL, but I have to admit that its existence took away some of the meaning of these Euro 2020 qualifiers that took place this week. Granted the qualifying just started, and Euro 2016 qualifying was like watching paint dry for the most part. But we did have that fascinating race in group A four years ago (i.e. Czech, Turkey, Netherlands, Iceland group). Even if something similar happens again, say with Portugal - who are off to bumpy start - we know in the back of our head that they'll have a second crack at qualifying in a 4-team playoff that will, frankly, be quite weak apart from whatever top-rated team that might've screwed-up the first-phase of qualifying (e.g. Portugal, Iceland, Montenegro, Israel).

    Thoughts?
     
  9. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    I was thinking the same thing while watching the Portuguese and their couple of flat results. Knowing they have a backdoor as a lifeline does make it a tiny bit less exciting.

    That said, I want to see the best / talented teams in the tournament as a true neutral with no dog in the fight so the more chances for teams that just happen to stub their toe on bunkering defensive teams the better in my opinion.
     
  10. dinamo_zagreb

    dinamo_zagreb Member+

    Jun 27, 2010
    San Jose, CA / Zagreb, Croatia
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    But that backdor are two win-or-go-home matches. It would be crazy to say "fu*k this, we have another way to qualify" and I am sure none of the teams think that way. Take a look at Macedonia - they assured playoffs, but they started better than ever before (I am sure about this, although I did not check).
     
  11. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    No one is saying that, It is just not as exciting to know that even if a team does not finish top 2 they can still qualify.
     
  12. The 3 teams format gives groups in which each match is relevant for winning it.
    In a 4 teams group a couple of matches become irrelevant.
     
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  13. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If I may... :D

    (not an announcement, but all 3 of FIFA's proposed 48-team schedules for 2022 have the top seed in each group sitting out Matchday 3)
     
  14. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hey, tomorrow's the biggest game in the history of Swiss football! How you feelin' @Nico Limmat ?



    :D
     
  15. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    I am very interested in seeing what happens in this tournament. Not necessarily who wins it but if the fans of the winner will celebrate it like it was some sort of major tournament.
    Although I can pretty much pencil in if Portugal wins it the fans will probably go crazy in the streets due to it being in Portugal.

    I would like to see what happens if any of the other teams wins it. It will be unique.
     
  16. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    England aren't exactly flush with trophies so as to thumb their noses at one :D

    Hell, that's true for all of them :ROFLMAO:
     
  17. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    Well, it ended as always - in the usual heartbreaking fashion. Portugal have a Ronaldo and we don't. I sometimes wonder if I will ever get to experience a Swiss victory in an elimination round in my lifetime. I don't know why we stopped playing after the (admittedly controversial) equalizer. We played like the home side up until that point. The game was there for the taking.

    On that note, I found myself annoyed that Portugal are hosting the final four. That is a significant advantage. Surely now that the competition is established we don't need a host to generate excitement going forward.
     
  18. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    Probably. Unless we get some fluke year with a bunch of teams that dont travel well. And even then I don't see a scenario where they would change it back to a home team.
     
  19. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just watch, UEFA will make you eat your words by giving the 2021 Final Four to...Azerbaijan :eek:
     
  20. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #321 EvanJ, Jun 9, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2019
    Portugal hasn't succeeded on the biggest stage. In World Cup 2006, they won all three Group Stage games and lost to France in the Semifinals. In the last three World Cups, they had 5 points and finished second in their group and lost in the Round of 16 in 2010 and 2018, and had 4 points and were third behind Germany and USA in 2014. Sweden won as many games in World Cup 2018 as Portugal won in the last three combined.

    Edit: Neither Cristiano Ronaldo nor Lionel Messi have ever scored in a World Cup Knockout Round.
     
  21. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    Sigh...

    Switzerland just a penalty shootout away from a top three placement at the senior level. It would have been the first since the 1924 Olympics. But England deserved it, they were better the whole match.

    The final between Portugal and the Netherlands is ongoing.
     
  22. Every Four Years

    May 16, 2015
    Miramar, Florida
    Nat'l Team:
    India
    Didn't watch, but Portugal just beat the Netherlands 1-0 in the inaugural Nations League final.

    This gives Portugal only its second senior international title of any sort. And for trivia junkies, this also makes it the first team in any confederation to hold both the relevant continental championship and nations league title at the same time. A dubious distinction, since this is the first nations league that has ever been completed up to this point, but true nonetheless.
     
  23. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    Congratulations Portugal.

    That said, no more hosts going forward please for the final four.
     
  24. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #325 Paul Calixte, Jun 9, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
    Imma have to disagree on that one: you think fans of the Final Four teams would be willing to travel to UEFA outposts like Latvia, Ukraine or Ireland for two games?

    Overall, chapeau to Platini for the initiative: this tournament has been fantastic and exceeded expectations. :thumbsup: I'm not going to touch the discussion of where it fits in importance in comparison with the Euro or the World Cup (both of which have prestige and history that are a challenge for any new tournament to match...see: the defunct Confed Cup). And yes, a couple tweaks would be welcome, e.g. dumping the 3rd-place game. But I can't wait for the next edition after the Euros.

    As for the rest of the world, IMO the benefits of this Nations League format:

    1. More winnable games for everyone,
    2. More matches between top sides,
    3. An extra trophy to dispute,
    4. And [mostly] getting rid of friendlies,

    Merit copycat versions for every confederation, albeit with adaptations.

    ...well, ok, I don't think anyone's dying to see an OFC Nations League :D

    But it should be a natural fit in the AFC and CAF. For Concacaf, we didn't suffer a lack of matches between the top sides, but Montagliani and co. can work on getting the top teams to buy in by 1) offering more carrots, e.g. top seeds for WCQ, and 2) convincing everyone that once WC expansion happens, those juicy USA/MEX/CRC showdowns in WCQ were going to disappear anyways, so the CNL will fill that gap.

    Finally, for Conmebol: while their WCQ league format means that those first 2 benefits mean nothing to them, check out the following:

    ---

    CONMEBOL Liga de Naciones/Liga das Nações

    League A: 6 teams, 2 groups of 3

    League B: 4 teams in 1 group

    Group stage played out home-and-away from September to November.

    Only the winner of League B gets promoted. In March of the following year, the League A group winners play home-and-away for the trophy, while the bottom teams in each League A group play home-and-away with the loser getting relegated.

    ---

    By my count, there would only be space for one such NL each WC cycle...but tell me they wouldn't prefer this to the current useless friendlies. Except for the economic aspect, for which I'd throw the federations a bone and allow them to schedule their NL group-stage home games wherever they want. Brazil wants to cash in by playing Paraguay in London, or Peru-Colombia in Miami? Get dat money **shrug**
     

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