Impact of Nations Leagues (UEFA original, Concacaf) on World Football? [Multiple R]

There are articles like this and this that discuss how a global nations league would revolutionize international soccer in ways that would eclipse the World Cup, and as absurd as it seems right now, there's a reason investors were willing to pay $25 billion for the competition along with an expanded Club World Cup. There's a lot of missed potential for growth and revenue in the international game. Case in point, the U.S. men's team plays friendlies, Gold Cups, and WCQ against other Concacaf teams every four years. A global nations league might convince countries like the U.S. not to put all their eggs in one basket by focusing solely on World Cups. This could lead to a merger between Concacaf and Conmebol just like AFC and OFC could possibly merge since South America and Oceania would need additional teams for the system to work. Now imagine a four year cycle in the U.S. with Nations League qualifying every two years, along with an expanded Copa America and a World Cup. Who wouldn't rather see that?

 

Many people in South America. Including the old guys at the head of the Federations.

A merger of CONCACAF and CONMEBOL is not happening any time soon. .

 

Buffon also can have grandchildren to look after for all we know.

 

I'd agree that the confederation heads would be against a merger due to self-preservation, for the obvious reason that combining Concacaf and Conmebol into one confederation would mean downsizing. But virtually everyone else seems to be supportive of a partnership. FIFA proposed combining WC qualifiers for the 2026 cycle, you've had teams like Argentina and Brazil playing Guatemala, El Salvador, T&T, and Jamaica recently in friendlies, so obviously individual South American federations aren't opposed to playing Concacaf teams, there have been players that have said they'd support a merger, sponsors obviously would prefer a more competitive, relevant, and stable tournament with world-class teams, and if the Copa Centenario was any indication, there's much more mainstream interest among sports fans. Many sports writers and journalists like this guy who don't want to cover soccer and usually don't, actually noticed.

I think the Copa Centenario opened the door for a merger but the timing wasn't right for several reasons. Now with the World Cup expansion making qualifiers much less relevant for many teams and with the possibility of a global Nations League making lucrative friendlies impossible, fans are going to quickly get tired of watching the same teams compete against each other. Is anyone seriously excited about watching the U.S. play Concacaf teams in the Gold Cup, WCQ, and Nations League? If the next combined Copa happens in 2020, which it will, I predict there will be much higher interest in a combined confederation, especially if the Nations League takes off. I can see it happening by 2022.

 

This is normal in some regions and can also involve a five or six hour time zone shift between the games. It does make things tough though, and I can see why it wouldn't appeal to regions that don't have to put up with it.

 

Travel is an issue.
South American Fans not wanting this to happen is an issue.
South American old guard opposition is an issue.

The main issue being the issue of Political power.

Brazil and Argentina do not want to have the same weighted vote as St Kitts & Nevis and Bermuda.

This is a political game people. And Politicians would rather die first than give up the historical power they have had for decades.

 

South American national teams don't need more intra-continental matches, but more inter-conference matches.

 

I agree with you. We do it by necessity. Not sure why you would do it by choice.

 

This is actually a weak argument considering the distance teams currently travel for friendlies. You had Brazil and Argentina in the U.S. for friendlies during the last international break and now this month both teams are traveling to Saudi Arabia for friendlies. Uruguay played in the U.S. and now are going to Japan and South Korea this month. Clubs do the same, scheduling preseason tournaments around the world and now La liga even wants to schedule a league game in the U.S. So if travel isn't an issue for clubs and federations for meaningless games, and players aren't turning down call-ups, why would anyone bat an eye to play Nations League qualifiers when each finalist would make between $38-75 million each? You seem more worried about the players than their own employers, which is great, but the reality is that players are a privileged and pampered bunch that eat and sleep better on the road than we do in our own homes and beds. And a global Nations League could actually reduce travel during international breaks by using the regional qualifiers to double up as WC qualifiers. No need for marathon World Cup campaigns when the interest in qualifiers will diminish as the field is expanded to 48 teams.

As I mentioned above, travel isn't the issue when clubs and international teams are already globetrotting for financial gain.

Unless I see an article, I don't buy that South American fans wouldn't want to see their national teams competing against non-Conmebol teams in a meaningful tournament outside the World Cup. You have the same ten teams for Copa America, then round-robin WC qualifiers, and then you add Nations League qualifiers and fatigue wouldn't set in? Comparing the TV ratings in South American countries of the 2015 Copa America to the 2016 Copa Centenario would provide a better answer.

The last thing you mention is the real reason why it hasn't happened. The presidents, secretary-generals, and staffs of Conmebol, Concacaf, UNCAF, and CFU all oppose a merger because obviously many of them would be out of work. But I don't agree that national federations wouldn't want more cooperation. In your example, you said that Brazil and Argentina wouldn't want the same weighted vote as St Kitts or Bermuda. As it currently stands, the Caribbean countries actually have more sway, because they can vote as a bloc, whereas Conmebol, even when united, have less votes than OFC. Conmebol's political influence is on a much smaller scale within FIFA compared to their sporting influence. Now let's hypothetically say there was a merger, could South American countries influence Caribbean and Central American countries to align with them? Sure they could, and in return for their political support they could offer those countries technical assistance, coaching clinics, player quotas in South American leagues, friendlies, etc. Right now, the North American countries are enjoying that partnership.

 

I agree that the transportation issue may not be as bad in theory but Friendly games in Japan and the USA are just that....
... Friendly games.
You have a bunch of subs being able to trot out there with no pressure and they (many players and coaches)almost treat it as a vacation and cultural experience (sad but true.)

Competitive matches are a different mind set and have a different logistic.
They are serious and they take much more of a toll on you mentally and physically. And that toll would be magnified if you have to play say a game in the Altitude of Bolivia one match and then travel up to Canada the next match and play in 40 degree slush

Maybe if it is regionlized a bit it could help things out but then it would kind of take away from the spirit of the combining of the federations if they are just playing teams that they usually play against anyway.

 

You can take an informal poll yourself of the South American fans who post all around the BigSoccer forum. I know it is a small sample size but I am willing to bet you that the vast majority of fans do not want to see competitive matches against CONCACAF teams. Heck, many of them don't want friendly games against CONCACAF teams either.

No article is going to be written about stuff like that because it is a slap in the face to CONCACAF teams and is a pointless to rub it in..

 

South Ametica is a good ole boys network. There's 10 Federations and everyone knows their place at the table. It has been that way for decades and I don't see it changing any time soon.

Adding in the Caribbean mafia network and MExico and the USA etc is not what South American Federations want to deal with at all.

 

Some players are privileged. About last year's playoff, http://www.espn.com/soccer/australi...avel-advantage-for-honduras-world-cup-decider says:

"In shades of Uruguay 2005, no measure was taken for granted on the charter flight that transported the Australian team from San Pedro Sula, a vessel featuring massage and physio tables for treatment at 30,000 feet and a mathematical approach to meal, sleep times and temperature.

Honduras, meanwhile, spent an extra night at home before flying commercial via Houston and Dallas, a convoluted path that will get them to Sydney almost a full day after the Socceroos and with roughly 60 hours to prepare."

You can find examples of players not being paid on time if you look around.

 

I have no dog in this fight but you're question got me curious so I checked it out.

Brazil - 2012
May 26 in Hamburg : 3-1 v Denmark
May 30 in Landover, MD : 4–1 v USA

Argentina - 2012
November 14 in Riyadh, KSA : 0-0 v Saudi Arabia
November 21 in Buenos Aires : 0-0 (5-4 pen) v Brazil

Uruguay - 2011
November 11 in Montevideo : 4-0 v Chile
November 15 in Rome : 1-0 v Italy

Tbh, I would have thought it was further back for each, like mid-2000s at the very least.

 

I like the analogy, and your response about two continents made me start to wonder the constant debate there must've been in the boardroom regarding flight times and travel fatigue when AFC officials and national federations were deciding whether to accept Australia. I mean last I checked Asia and Oceania were different continents. Would you believe Buenos Aires to Toronto takes less time than Australia to Beijing? Let's not get into the flight times to West Asia.

Here's why your argument runs into logical fallacies: First, you're making the argument as if all of Concacaf is too far for Conmebol nations when only the U.S. and Canada are more than 10 hours away from the furthest South American capitals. Scheduling can alleviate that problem. But players and federations want to play in the U.S., so that wouldn't really be an issue. When talking about 'travel', what you really mean is that Canada is too far from South America. So you really think that if there was talk of a merger, the make-or-break point would be Canada? This is also taking into consideration that South American teams wouldn't have to play qualifiers for a combined continental championship like UEFA, AFC, and CAF do. Also, Nations League qualifiers would reduce the need for WC qualifiers.

Secondly, I assume this 'two continent' issue you bring up would pertain to European based players that would possibly have to play one game in South America and another in North America during international breaks. Again, the main concern must be Canada, but in a hypothetical global Nations League grouping, Canada would be in League 3, with every South American team being in League 1 or 2. Assuming that Canada would eventually get promoted to League 2, in an Americas confederation they would be playing South American teams with lineups that would be virtually all domestic-based such as Venezuela, Bolivia, and Ecuador.

 

It's all good. Again, it has me curious, as well.
Only Argentina sent different squads for the two matches. (Local players for the Buenos Aires fixture?)
Brazil and Uruguay had the same players travel to both games.

URUGUAY 2011
Nov 11 in Montevideo v Chile
Fernando Muslera
Martín Cáceres
Diego Lugano
Diego Godín
Álvaro Pereira
Álvaro González
-- Sebastián Eguren
Diego Pérez
Egidio Arévalo Ríos
Gastón Ramírez
-- Sebastián Abreu
Luis Suárez
-- Cristian Rodríguez
Edinson Cavani

Nov 15 in Rome v Italy
Fernando Muslera
Martín Cáceres
Diego Lugano
-- Sebastián Coates
Diego Godín
Álvaro Pereira
Maximiliano Pereira
-- Andrés Scotti
Diego Pérez
-- Sebastián Eguren
Egidio Arévalo Ríos
Cristian Rodríguez
-- Álvaro González
Edinson Cavani
Sebastián Fernández
-- Emiliano Alfaro


BRAZIL 2012
May 26 in Hamburg v Denmark
Jéfferson
Danilo I
-- Rafael Silva
Thiago Silva
Juan Jesus
Marcelo
-- Alex Sandro
Rômulo I
Sandro
-- Casemiro
Lucas Moura
-- Giuliano
Oscar
Hulk
-- Bruno Uvini
Leandro Damião
-- Wellington Nem

May 30 in Landover v United States
Rafael Cabral
Danilo I
Thiago Silva
Juan Jesus
Marcelo
-- Alex Sandro
Rômulo I
Sandro
Oscar
-- Giuliano
Hulk
-- Casemiro
Leandro Damião
-- Alexandre Pato
Neymar
-- Lucas Moura


ARGENTINA 2012
Nov 14 in Riyadh v Saudi Arabia
Sergio Romero
Pablo Zabaleta
Federico Fernandez
Fabricio Coloccini
Marcos Rojo
Javier Mascherano
Tino Costa
-- Augusto Fernández
Ángel di María
Eduardo Salvio
-- Franco Di Santo
Sergio Agüero
Lionel Messi

Nov 21 in Buenos Aires v Brazil
Agustín Orión
Sebastián Domínguez
Leandro Desábato
Leonel Vangioni
Lisandro Ezequiel López
Gino Peruzzi
Pablo Guiñazú
Walter Montillo
Francisco Cerro
-- Oscar Ahumada
Hernán Barcos
-- Ignacio Scocco
Juan Manuel Martínez

 

It's not just Canada. Of USA's 8 home WCQs for World Cup 2018, 3 were in the northern USA, 3 in the central, and 2 in the southern. I'm only looking at north-south, so cities like New York City and Seattle (which didn't host any WCQs but hosted one for 2014) on opposite coasts are grouped together. The locations within the USA matter because USA should not have to choose between playing WCQs only in the south or having to play in South America 4 days before or after playing in the northern USA. A complete merger and having one top club competition would also make excessive travel. Two of the top four and five of the top eight in MLS in points are in the northern USA. That includes Portland, and it takes over 15 hours to fly from there to Sao Paulo or Buenos Aires. If there was a hypothetical country from Florida to Texas including the southeast in between, I wouldn't complain about the travel from there to South America, but a lot of the USA is too far from South America.

 

Don't confuse power structures with tournaments.

As Homie says, Comnebol and Concacaf will never merge ever. However, Conmebol will play any tournaments that gets them money.

As italiancbr says, Conmebol won't make another South American tournament. The FIFA Nations League proposal makes much more sense for them, as we need to play better ranked teams.