I'm ready for spring

Discussion in 'Coach' started by Ihateusernames, Jan 13, 2015.

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  1. danielpeebles2

    Dec 3, 2013
    #76 danielpeebles2, May 19, 2015
    Last edited: May 19, 2015
    would help if you can assess the other teams. going up 5-0 in the first quarter and playing keepaway for 3 is not very exciting soccer. if the other teams are full of kids who are just aren't competitive minded they might as well just dribble around cones.

    but I kind of get the psychological part of it, when I'm playing with my kids I don't play my hardest, I let them practice their moves and build confidence while scoring on dad.
     
  2. Timbuck

    Timbuck Member

    Jul 31, 2012
    My teams have played quite a few tournaments over the last few summers.
    We've played in the top flight and done ok. (Lost in the championship game on pks). And we've played in the top flight and gotten crushed.
    We've also played in lower flights and always seems to run up against 1 team that is sandbagging and blows everybody out.
     
  3. stphnsn

    stphnsn Member+

    Jan 30, 2009
    I haven't shared anything about my team this spring, but we just had our last game of the spring season. I was hired to help start a middle school soccer program for my hometown school district. We started it this spring to set a foundation for the fall, which will be our primary season. High school soccer is a fall sport here in IN so we decided to have that be the primary season to get the kids focused on soccer as a fall sport to act as a feeder to our high school teams. We have 55-60 (!) kids, male and female, 6th, 7th, and 8th graders. I have two adult volunteer assistants (parents) and two HS senior volunteers who work with me.

    Beyond the sheer number of kids, the differences in skill level and experience are crazy. Some of my kids have played rec level soccer. Most have played pick up games at the park or in their back yards. Some look like they wouldn't know a soccer ball if it hit them in the face. I have maybe 6 or 7 players who I would call good players, whose skills are what they should be for a 12, 13, 14 year old. We don't have any local travel programs like we did 15-20 years ago when I was growing up. The only option for the kids is the rec league with parent coaches who have no idea what they're doing. This means we have kids going into our high school programs who have never played a competitive soccer game before. It's sad. Our high school coach has to teach kids how to do a proper throw-in. So my job is to get the kids into an actual soccer team and teach them the game so they can hopefully be ready to play HS soccer when they get to ninth grade.

    My kids are so far behind in their development as soccer players that it's almost depressing. Most have no skills with the ball at their feet. The ones who do have foot skills have no idea how to make a solid pass or how to strike the ball. We're working on both of those things at practice, and they're showing some improvement little-by-little, but I feel like we're starting from zero as far as basic skills go. Obviously, more advanced concepts and team tactics are way over most of their heads too. My biggest problem is their lack of urgency and nonchalant attitude. We're having to teach them that they need to give effort to beat opponents to the ball, that they need to compete. It's like they don't care whether they win or lose or get beat to the ball. I'm having to teach soccer skills but also effort, determination, and pride. We're trying to establish a team culture of effort, commitment, and development from nothing. It's a weird thing to try to do. When I was playing, there were always older kids who set the example of working hard and making strong passes, leading by example, doing things the right way. Now, even my older kids have no idea what the right way is.

    We've been practicing 2-3 times a week since the end of March. We've played 4 games and lost all 4 - combined score of 20-5. I was able to get most of the kids to two games this season. For some of them, these were the first real games they have ever played in.

    I just needed to vent after giving up 7 goals tonight. The whiskey isn't helping much. Have any of you dealt with a situation like this? We're doing the best we can, but it feels overwhelming at times. I read some of you guys' posts about things you're doing with your younger teams, and I laugh to myself. There's no way my kids would be able to do a lot of this stuff.
     
  4. rca2

    rca2 Member+

    Nov 25, 2005
    Never had anything close to your situation. Just from general experience, I think you just have to focus on the hand you are dealt and do the best you can to improve the players. It seems obvious to me that the High School coach is really dependent on you. He certaintly can't teach the game from scratch after they get to high school and have much expectation of success.

    In that regard, I was thinking about Anson Dorrance's competitive cauldron concept. If you aren't familiar with it, everything is tracked by the individual and ranks kept on a ladder. If you have some keepers, rank them on a separate ladder from field players. I would even consider throwing the girls and boys into the same mix. Better development opportunity for the girls and puts more pressure on the boys to develop their technical skills. My thought is that you could focus the tactical/technical training on SSGs. Pick a size commensurate with their abilities. I would say in the 3 to 5 range. But then until they showed some progress at small group tactics, I wouldn't play larger sides. When you get enough players to make a full-sided scimmage worthwhile, you could pick the top 20 field players from the ladder for a weekly scrimmage. For your league matches, I would pick the eligible starters from the ladders too.

    Not sure how practical any of this would be, but I think it is the best way to develop a competitive culture.
     
    stphnsn repped this.
  5. stphnsn

    stphnsn Member+

    Jan 30, 2009
    Ya. Our HS program was one of the best in the state back when I played. We won something like 19 out of the first 20 sectionals and had 6 or 7 final 8 appearances in the state tournament. We were competing for state titles. For a school in the middle of nowhere with no big clubs around, we were good. My brother graduated last spring, and his class was the first to graduate without winning a single sectional championship. It's incredible how far the program has fallen.

    Part of it is demographics I think. Our Hispanic population has grown exponentially. Our player pool has gone from mostly white kids to mostly Hispanic kids. From what I can tell, soccer isn't an organized activity for most of our families now. It's a "go outside and play with your friends" game, not a "mom or dad will help organize a travel team" game. When you don't have a strong club, you're reliant on parents to do the organizing. When the parents don't have the desire/wherewithal/whatever to do it, you end up with the situation we're dealing with now.

    This is a good idea. If we can make everything at practice competitive, that may translate onto the field.
     
  6. J'can

    J'can Member+

    Jul 3, 2007
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    So I parsed your post to isolate what I consider to be the good points that you can build on. Looking at this it is not as bad. You are preparing them for the next level which means there is an avenue for them to go. you have some help and some good players. you are getting practices in. the foundation is there. don't compare what the others are posting about doing with their own kids.

    now you might be wondering why i bold the bit above.

    You are scoring a goal a game. That is great to start. At least one game you had at least 2 in a game right? Not the best starting point to be sure but not the worst. i think it is not as bad as it seems :)
     
    stphnsn repped this.
  7. stphnsn

    stphnsn Member+

    Jan 30, 2009
    you're right. it's a start. and i really need to stop comparing my middle schoolers and current state of the HS program to where it was in the past and letting that discourage me. it's all up from here.
    we scored 3 last night so we had 2 games with one goal each and were shut out once. i tried to get a good mix of players for each game: some of the better players, some of the weaker players, some of each age group, some boys and some girls. each squad was definitely weaker than if we'd just taken our best 18, so that's encouraging too. this spring was really about getting everyone's feet wet and showing them what to expect in the fall.
     
  8. GiggsTYAS1991

    GiggsTYAS1991 New Member

    May 17, 2014
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    ^ If you want to develop competitiveness, make drills/exercises competitive in some way. Last year, I had a couple kids with little experience and little desire to improve (i.e. a girl's dad told me she only wanted to play because her older sister played and liked being in uniform with teammates and friends). Long story short, I made a lot of 1v1 and SSGs with incentives to win (pushups, burpees, etc). Be careful to pair similar level/competitiveness players because pairing a competitive/higher level with a not so competitive player typically means the latter has a tendency to give up. And of course, you want to make it so that the lesser skilled players win too. You might have to send more time than you'd like carefully analyzing the players, but you've got all those assistants to use too.

    I'd say don't even worry about tactics. You're starting from ground zero and you've got a good opportunity to teach them the fundamentals. I agree with rca in making ssg a priority. I like to believe that the more time kids spend with the ball, the better they'll get. With 2s or 3s, kids get to both work on dribbling and passing. Throw in more than 2 goals and they get to develop quickly.
     
  9. Ihateusernames

    May 16, 2007
    Merriam, KS
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Gonna have to agree with the above about ladders of sorts but I wanted to add a piece. You say the kids are a bit lackadaisical and nonchalant in getting to the ball and I've had a few like that. That's fairly simple to work on based upon individual competitions. We score our 1v1s and 2v2s during practice. Some coaches offer incentives to the top player(s) but most of it is bragging rights for them. Never anything in punishment for be but that's a club philosophy and may not suit you. Figure the kid is already beat so why do burpees on top of it? I save those for kids who pick up their balls during practice. hehe. Anyway, with the individual round scoring, you get beat and don't get back, you obviously get scored on. We play it make it-take it going the other way so at some point the kid is going to have to hustle to win the ball back if he wants a goal. You can always offer bonus points if the attacking player was more than a yard away when he/she scored or something along those lines.
     
  10. Ihateusernames

    May 16, 2007
    Merriam, KS
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Spring season is OVER. We got 3 of our 4 games in during our tournament. I wasn't aware the Midwest had a monsoon season. Instead of finishing 3rd out of 5 teams, we tied for 5th. The fun part was that we were 3 goals away from being in second. A 5-5 game where we gave them every goal including the OG off a last minute corner kick and a 5-4 thriller we should have won (I should have been tracking shots taken at the opposing keeper). I'll take it though. It was the first time they've ever played on a field that large, with goals that large, and 6v6. Most of the boys had been doing 8v8 on a smallish field with long crappy grass and tiny goals so the spacing was new to them. Our in-house rec like these boys did with me are 4v4. Each game they got better at finding space on offense and finding marks on defense. We weren't outplayed in any game and definitely were never outskilled which isn't a surprise. Even the last team tried to take us out of playing skillfully and turn it into a track meet. Yeah, good luck with that. We threw it back at them for a bit and then went back to the skills. At one point in the game, the coach on the field behind us yelled at his players, "Stop being so selfish!" to which I looked at my boys and told them to be more selfish and see how many defenders they can beat. I'm sure that the other team gave us some quizzical looks.

    With the last day canceled due to flooding, we went inside and played a parent-player game. So here I am with a severely sprained ankle thanks to an 8 year old boy undercutting me. Stupid rain...but onto tryouts next week!
     
  11. J'can

    J'can Member+

    Jul 3, 2007
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    okay first night of tryouts on tuesday and second one (and last) tonight. to answer your questions and then pose another question of my own.

    1. he is not in over his head. from tuesday tryouts he is where he should be. this is based on seeing him play with the current u9 travel team and from the tryouts. not the best kid but not the least equipped either.

    2. good points.

    3. this is tricky. he loves the sport. wants to play it but he whines so much. at the start of the spring season he whined it was too hard. he put the work in and is better for it. now he is whining if he loses a scrimmage game. at the end of practices to round things out the divide the teams and play a intra squad game (for fun, no yelling or accolodaes for winners or losers) and he gets so upset if he is on the losing scrimmage team.. at hte tryouts they did 3v3 and did about 4 or so sets of that first goal wins, next two teams are up when goal is scored or ball goes out. his "3" lost the majority and he was hopping mad. so now he does not want to play cause he loses the scrimmage game.

    how do you as coaches (and parents) address something like this? i try to mitigate it as best as possible but running out of ideas... :(

    any tips are welcomed!
     
  12. nicklaino

    nicklaino Member+

    Feb 14, 2012
    Brooklyn, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Kids are all different they have all types of personalities. You can not deal with all of them in the same way. J can a kid your describing is pretty hard to coach.

    He is with the team because he is doing something that you like. Use what he does that you like. Don't think you can make him a complete player or even a team player.

    But if you use what he does well he can still help you win.

    I saw a player who was always complaining. This kid seemed to play better when he complained then when he did not complain.
     
  13. J'can

    J'can Member+

    Jul 3, 2007
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    that is not entirely true, Nick (that's his name too by the way :) ). he only gets that way when he loses. when he wins he talks about how his team won. that is what makes it so difficult.

    it is frustrating because we are all working to de-emphasize winning and losing but he pigeon holes himself where as the other kids seem to move on quickly from it. i am trying to channel that into saying if you are upset that you lost then do something about it, play harder ot smarter etc etc. or just have fun.

    he does this with music lessons (if he doesnt get a good review from the teacher), in school basketball etc.
     
  14. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    It's probably his road to walk, if you've tried a bunch of stufff already.

    He probably acts out as attention-seeking behavior. Let him lose and fume several times and see how his behavior evolves.
     
  15. nicklaino

    nicklaino Member+

    Feb 14, 2012
    Brooklyn, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nick's are hard to coach :) what does he do when he is fouled. Does he look to fight or does he just smile at the guy. Then he lays the guy out as the officials turns away from the play. If he does that he is exactly like me.
     
  16. danielpeebles2

    Dec 3, 2013
    It's amazing how much fluctuation you can see in certain kids with whatever mood that they are in.

    It's not just soccer, some kids will cry if they lose at a video game. If they are going to be successful in a sport or anything that is graded or rated or has any competitive element to it, I'd rather the kid be over-reactive than non-reactive or shut down. It's easier to tame a beast than to put a fire under a kid who just isn't enjoying what they are doing and needs to find something else. kids grow up, ride the storm.
     
  17. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Early childhood development materials point out that kids feel emotions way more intensely than adults. Think about the kid who just lost a dollar store type toy—he/she reacts like it's the end of the world.

    It's also part of a coach's job to teach and mold his players the proper way to react after a loss.
     
  18. rca2

    rca2 Member+

    Nov 25, 2005
    Everyone is different. You have to have perspective. Imagine how intense the 8 y.o. emotional child would be if a coach or parent was fanning the emotions. While you can encourage sportsmanship and positive behavior, you have to consider that personalities are already formed and that most of what shapes the child's behavior is out of your control.

    With goal keepers, I wanted to desensitize them to failing to stop a goal. I used a drill that emphasized effort over results and created a situation that was obviously impossible to save all the shots. Saving over half was a good result. The keepers were proud of saving half of the shots and didn't brood over the failures.

    I think the same problem arises with field players' attitude. My approach generally was to praise effort, never results. You want to develop a love of playing, not a love of winning which is what so many parents, intentionally or not, teach their children. To use the figure skater analogy, if skaters only valued successful execution, they will never become a good skater. They will become discouraged and quit. Like the saying champions are created through overcoming every failure. A drive to win is a good thing, but you have to create a focus on effort to divorce self-esteem from result.
     
  19. dcole

    dcole Member+

    May 27, 2005
    I've coached a handful of kids who have gotten very upset about losing meaningless games and scrimmages to the point of being irate. Probably 3-4 kids out of the 200 or so I've coached. So it's a fairly rare trait in a 9 year old boy. Your case is even more extreme than the ones I've seen because none of the 3-4 kids I've coached have taken it so hard that they want to quit the sport. The ones I've dealt with were just hyper-competitive and obsessed with winning. Another thing they all had in common was that they were all very high level players. Two of them were among the best 5-6 players I've coached. These kids just lost their minds when they lost games. Crying, snot coming out of their noses, and unable to speak coherently due to being totally furious. They also were pretty bad sports and hated their opponents, at times refusing to shake their hands after games, which is a huge no-no in my book. But, as I said, these were ultra-competitive kids who loved to compete and lived to win. None of them ever expressed any desire to quit the game. In fact, they would usually demand a rematch immediately!

    Although the I've never dealt with the wrinkle you've added, I can assure you that all of these kids outgrew their childish reactions to losing and learned to cope with it. I helped them through it by encouraging them to be leaders and good sports. I suspect your kid will outgrow this. Your job is to help him love the sport and not quit before he has a chance to outgrow it. Tell him what it means and how important it is to be a good sport and a leader. That may help.
     
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  20. danielpeebles2

    Dec 3, 2013
    on memorial day had a combined practice with another team since everyone but my son had some family obligations (5 players out, but I made it clear if they had family things to do, just go do them)

    funniest moment: their star tells me "I don't make moves, I just shoot, this game is too easy, you don't need to make moves (to elude a defender)"

    of course it's easy, it's rec soccer where kids take 2 to 3 games off a season for music/dance/scouts/other-sports

    so I ask him why he doesn't go out for one of the soccer academies in town. "because I hate soccer, it's too easy and its stupid"

    ok...

    not my kid, not my player, not my problem, lol.
     
  21. danielpeebles2

    Dec 3, 2013
    with one week to go the only player who hadn't scored yet this season managed to score. First season I've coached where every player scored at least one goal, came very close last season.
     
  22. Rob55

    Rob55 Member

    Nov 20, 2011
    So first, it sounds great that you have 55-60 middle school children coming out that will be feeding into your HS program (some of them anyway). That means that there is a big soccer culture in your area (even if it is now mostly Latino heritage and not the Euro white mid-westerners, who cares).

    What is going on at the younger age groups? Are there a decent number of soccer players for your population draw area?
     
  23. jmnva

    jmnva Member

    Feb 10, 2007
    Arlington, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Spring season is over for my 5th grade girls. They are a pretty special group of kids. We came in 2nd in our division which means that we are likely to get promoted to the top division for the fall season
     
  24. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    What a freakin' day. 70 degrees when I went grocery shopping. 50 when we finished playing 2 hours ago. Pouring rain on and off.
    Adult team won 5-1 this morning in a downpour at times. Temp dropped about 10 degrees during the match.
    Home for 10 minutes to change out of drenched clothes.
    Refereed two matches. First one was in a downpour for the first half, temp probably dipped into the 40's for a while before bouncing back up a bit.
    Made it back for the second half of my son's U-14 match. Saw him stick in a gorgeous left footed cross from the wing right to the foot of a far post run. Even better was his coach talking about how he hustled his ass off.
    Home for 15 minutes.
    My U-12's capped off a the day with the effort I dream of. Near perfect game. 5-3 win against the team that beat us 8-5 this past Tuesday followed up by a horrendous tournament yesterday (we win the first 2, only needing a tie to advance to the finals in the third game - vs. a team we beat 5-0 two weeks earlier. We lose 2-1 on a last second goal that started from an opposing goal kick - lunging defenders ). Tonight we had boys covering for one another, making smart decisions and finishing chances. Told them early in the 2nd half, 'even if you lose today, this is the effort I expect and know you are capable of.'
    Topped it off with one of my forwards earning a yellow card for PI. Hey better to be more aggressive than backing off and letting the team settle the ball. Teach the forwards that they are the first line of defense and the importance of being a 'disrupted.' He carried it a bit too far, which is fine with me, as I see it he is learning the limit of where he can go.
    Anyway, we are back alive in the championship hunt as this was the first place team we beat.
     
  25. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    kids! no matter how wildly skilled or talented they are they will burn you up with inconsistency.

    I told my wife that our 3-2 loss this past weekend was the first time I was disappointed with their play all season. We started out hot with two beautiful goals but let the game slip away with a GK mistake and some issues marking.

    But it's on us, the coaches, though. Prep was weak leading up and pregame warm-ups were sloppy because of a lightning delay.

    One of my kids got new cleats and I heard him say that he wanted to score in the new ones. He's usually one of my star players but yesterday he was overdribbling and losing the ball a lot.
     

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