Ignore the blah, blah, blah - the Paul Pogba thread

Different times and culture: there is absolutely nothing that says that the way from the United teams from 20yrs ago is the only way for teams to be successful/to win.
Our issue as it's been covered ad nauseum is that we lack leadership in the squad of any kind (and it does not necessarily mean someone who terrorizes and rules over everyone with an iron fist like Keane), along with a clear lack of talent. In both areas, this current squad can't touch the teams from 10-20yrs ago.
Absolutely ridiculous to try and reduce our issues to just one player, especially the only world class outfield player in the bunch and the one who actually has encountered success EVERYWHERE he's been, until now...

 

Lmao.

What team has Pogba -led- to victory as the talisman?

If you even think about saying a WC with France, then you're on ********ing crack. He wasn't even the most important CM in that team. Much less top 3 important players.

 

I never said anything about being the talisman in any team, I said that he has a history of winning: up your reading comprehension or learn to read...
You can keep on denigrating the guy's talent and worth, it's simply becoming more and more pathetic to be perfectly honest. Simply because you can not accept what he is and/or have this idea in your head that he should do it all, by himself for some reason, with no substantial help beside him? Who's on f'n crack there bud?

 

Do it all?

Mate, I'd just like him to do the basics of his job.

 

DDG has been pulling our chestnuts out of the fire for the 6 or 7 years.

He's been a de facto top 3 player in his position for 5 years.

He also assimililates with the culture around him.

Pogba is actively mocking and undermining the clubs attempt to create the right culture. Either he, his brother, or his agent are opening their mouths and undermining what we are trying to do.

Ffs he blew a raspberry and cackled at a coach, dead ass serious, telling him to be serious and work hard like it's a joke.

Pogba tries to be a leader, but a leader doesn't just show up and give good pre match talkies. Those are false leaders and they will only lead to paths of despair.

Being a jovial extrovert doesn't make you a leader.

 

You don't understand how much you're proving my point.

It has nothing to do with believing in a project and everything to do with the kind of character you are. You do what you do because you do it not because anybody else is or what you might or might not achieve.

Keane didn't become a leader when he turned up at United - he rose to his natural state in a mutually beneficial environment because the years of work he'd put in from Northern Ireland to Forest to United. It was his character to be that way. When Keane started his mentality grind he was written off - too small - won't make it - and he couldn't get anyone to chance it on him until Forest came along and took a punt. But Keane wouldn't have made it to where he was if he had waited until an opportunity came around to start his grind.

Leaders that are great - those that lead by example first - are heralded because their standards are their standards and they hold them. By holding them, others rise or fall away.

Pogba clearly has the eyes of his teammates. Everyone clearly defers to him. But he's not leading. He thinks being serious and hard work is a joke.

Keanes iron fists were his standards.

I don't get why you keep bringing DDG into this - he is not a leader. He assimililates into the culture he is surrounded by.

Pogba is actively mocking it.

There's being a good leader, being a good teammate, and then there's being a jester. Pogba is a jester and he is disruptive to building a winning culture. To claim that he had anything to do with building the successes of his previous teams is asinine. He didn't. He joined a Juve team that had previously won the league and played in a midfield with Vidal and Pirlo. He was a bottom half of the starting XI player for France at the WC.

And he's not been very good this season. He had one good half against Chelsea, a good overall match against Wolves, but has been clearly outplayed by every CM he's faced since then - including the one on his own team. He's made costly mental mistakes that are honestly easy to predict coming from him - I did so months ago. I called exactly this kind of scenario happening.

Pep and Klopp have to defend competitive tirades from his players (Mane, Aguero) and Ole has to defend Pogba laughing when told to be serious and work hard, or Pogba's camp speaking out about leaving OT.

He's supposed to be a leader, a senior figure in a young team, an experienced player who, like ashur said, has won things. But his mentality isn't indicative of that in anyway.

Like others have mentioned, players keep coming here and turning to shit. Well, it's because our dressing room culture is about having a laugh and building positive personal lives.

Being jovial and well-liked aren't hallmark characteristics of a good leader. Keane wasn't always well-liked. Gary said he was popular, but he also got into a fair few skirmishes and bust ups with his teammates. He was admired by the class of '92 because his mentality set him apart, not because he was like a big brother.

TLDR; Your grind starts before the opportunity. Your grind continues through the opportunity. Your grind does not stop because you do or don't believe in an opportunity. Because you will NEVER get to the point of opportunity if you selectively grind. Pogba has a ******** load of natural talent, and it's why he is where he is, but he will never ascend higher because his mentality is a ********ing joke.

 

Paul Pogba, world cup champion, could learn a thing or two about what it takes to be a success from incighte, random idiot posting on the internet.

 

Reminds me of Rio and vidic having to watch videos of jagielka.

 

See I tried this once and got thrown out of the restaurant.

 

Nothing to add other than taking that Pogba/Evra video as anything other than the joke that both intended (Evra is not authentically serious) is silly. Evra could be a better example for Pogba but is not. You shouldn’t have to be wearing the training kit to teach someone what it is (or was) to play at United.

 

Your anecdotes for 'high performance culture' are not analogous for high performance sports culture.

One person is more than enough. I've been that one person on multiple occasions.

I've learned that these shitty snide classless remarks are more indicative of you and how utterly miserable and negative of a ******** you are.

It's okay. You can be the change you want to see.

It'd be hilarious if I didn't post about us being in this situation back in June.

 

Lolol

 

Not sure what that poster wrote. PP hasn't shown this publicly for United and might not be a great leader in an average team (like we've been since he's been here) but anon internet user should probably stfu.

 

It's amazing that a lot of you regard yourself as better people, given that only two have addressed the post, and everything else has been personal attacks.

Tell me how many times I've cast the first stone in personal attacks? Disagree with me all you want, but stop being pieces of shit and grow up.

Hats off to the mod team for continually allowing the nonsense.

 

Were talking about elite sports culture at the highest level of this sport. You entered yourself as an example in the context of this topic.

You really don't see anything wrong with that?

 

He could be johno. Johno played at the highest level you know.

 

You all wouldn't be laughing if you saw the culture of performance incighte instilled in his Sunday league team. Used to be the whole team showed up hungover, but nowadays only 50%. There are valuable lessons for PP to be learned from such a dynamic force of personality.