For a kick-off, how do the rules define "movement"? As it reads: "when it is kicked and clearly moves" What I keep seeing in our local games: a) Ball is stationary on CM. b) First player runs up to the ball, taps it with their foot, and the ball shudders/vibrates, but does not roll. c) Second player kicks the ball hard out of the CC. I think the rationale is that the first player is performing the kickoff, allowing the second player to touch and retouch the ball. My problem is that if the love tap that clearly makes the ball wobble is movement or does the ball have to roll to be movement? So, is a tree swaying in the wind "movement" or does the tree have to move from one geographical position to another to be considered "moving"? Is this defined anywhere because here one person will say that the ball didn't move because it didn't roll, but another person will say the ball did move because it was stationary and then it wobbled when kicked (albeit a very, very light kick). So, one person will say it's a valid kickoff and other will make them redo the kickoff. If anyone can point me to better written clarification, I'd appreciate it. Regards, leaning
Then is the second player (the one who kicked it hard out of the center circle) also the next player to touch the ball?
threeputzzz, Yep. the first player kicks it and wobbles it. The second player kicks it and then re-kicks it (if the opposing team doesn't get to it first).
The current version of the LOTG states that on a kickoff the ball is in play when it is kicked and moves forward. The tap as you describe it does not put in play, but what constitutes a kick and what qualifies as moves forward is, like many other things, in the opinion of the referee on a given match. Edit: Crap, duh I forgot the moves forward clause was removed. Forget that part.
threeputzzz: like fairplay said, the part about moving forward was deleted awhile back. fairplayforlife: each referee is deciding it different from game-to-game. For some, a wobble is a movement; for others, it has to roll. That's why I posted to see if maybe y'all know of a clarification statement somewhere so that it wasn't an individual interpretation thing.
Yes I edited my post and fairplay even quoted the edit. It was deleted just a year ago. The question of what is "kicked" has frequently been debated. It was addressed in the now defunct Advice to Referees document in the section on free kicks: 13.3 When the Ball Is in Play The ball is in play (able to be played by an attacker other than the kicker or by an opponent) when it has been kicked and moved. The distance to be moved is minimal and the kick need only be a touch of the ball with the foot in a kicking motion or being dragged with the top or bottom of the foot. Simply tapping the top of the ball with the foot or stepping on the ball is not sufficient. So it should not be surprising that, laking any current official guidance, many referees are still going to apply this standard, even for kickoffs.
Andymoss, I wish it was clear like that. But per today's (and other) games, a wobbled ball counted as the kickoff, even though the kick just wobbled the ball and didn't advance it an inch...Like they've said here, in the absence of non-defunct guidance, it's the whim of the referee. (shrug).
Yes, always in the opinion of the referee. But within the context of soccer, going from here to there makes more sense than just a wobble.
I internally debated that today as I had an obvious passback to the keeper who handled it. "Definition of kicked and definition of moved." Thankfully the first player, who tried to tap top of the ball completely whiffed on it and the ball didn't even wobble. The second buried it in the back of the net without touching anyone. Tweet, goal kick.
My apologies. I hesitated and re read it like three times before I hit quote. I think we crossed paths
Sorry I wasn't trying to be short with you. I was between games and a short answer was all o could do. The advice of others pretty well covers it. It isn't supposed to be a mystery if it was put in play. It should be fairly clear. I think FIFA even said something to that affect in the law change explanations last year.
Keep in mind that the ATR "from here to there" was even BEFORE they added "clearly" in front of moved. The point of adding clearly was to make sure everyone knew the ball was put into play. I suspect on the KO, many refs are going to let this slide because it just isn't that important and everyone knows the game started.
I haven't had a double touch violation in I can not remember when - had three this weekend, all on the kickoff. R3PL - 2 different girls matches one boys match so it seems something is getting conveyed a little weird about kickoffs.
I had a passback call the other week. Players are standing over the ball. One taps the top and it wobbles. I saw it and it was clear to me, but no defender moved to the ball as it sat there for 2 full seconds and the attacker's teammates were still telling the kicker to ask for ten. If both teams believe that the ball isn't in play, it isn't in play, if both teams think it is in play, then it is in play. The same weekend I also had a player just start dribbling from a kickoff. My philosophy, if the ball doesn't settle in a different location, then it hasn't moved.
Just had one in an NCAA game. She taps the ball forward and then swings around and kicks it back to a teammate. What went through my mind: Did she just do that? Yes, she did. It's pretty trifling. Can I get away with pretending I didn't see it? No way. That game is being filmed and is being streamed. People will be able to go back and link to the stupid ref that missed such an obvious call <tweet> "Double touch, indirect that way" Coach that lost the ball yelled something. When I talked to him after the game, he hadn't seen it clearly and thought that I was calling that the direction of the kick was improper.
A while back I watched someone in a adult game just take a kick off and start dribbling down the field. If was another ref. I blew it and just started laughing. He looked at me like I was an idiot and I just looked at him and said: "Dude. Double touch?" I really think he had no idea he was in the wrong.
Petty sure it is related to the new KO rules. (Kick anywhere.) Before it was very structured. Kick short to the other player, they kick it backwards. Start your offense. Now its ..... ....something else? I had a double touch also on a KO a month ago. It was incredibly hot, my brain was fried, the players were fried. I had them re-do. Then spent the next couple of minutes figuring out the correct restart.
When the IFAB added the word "clearly" to the kick-off law and various other laws related to kicked restarts, they offered the following explanation: Although I'm not entirely sure about the logic of the last part of the sentence, for me what the IFAB is saying is that there needs to be no doubt that the ball has moved. "Clearly moves" as far as I'm concerned means enough movement that pretty much everyone involved in the game (both teams, the referee, AR's etc) is aware that the ball has moved - so as to prevent the unsporting pretense mentioned above. Yes, it's still up to the referee to decide exactly how much movement is enough but in my opinion it has to be more than just a wobble since as we often see, that is not clear enough in most cases for everyone (sometimes including the player's own team) to know what is going on.
I believe this was put in to stop the practice of touching the ball to take a trick corner, but if the defending team sees the touch and rushes in the kicker picks the ball up and re-places it for a normal corner kick pretending it was never in play.
I know this really doesn't have any relevance for FIFA games, but the NFHS high school rules in the US, Rule 19 gives definition of different terms. One of which is a free kick, and states something like "simply tapping the ball with the foot does not constitute kicking the ball." I looked it up last year after a varsity coach insisted that high school rules were different from FIFA when it came to KO and free kicks.
I knew he was out of date, but there are times when NFHS rules are slightly different from the Laws of the Game. I looked it up later just o confirm. Here in Central New York, we still have one high school referee who insists that teams use their hands to adjust the ball before a free kick. He still insists that adjusting it with their feet before taking a free kick constitutes putting the ball into play.