Umm, maybe older than like u12? My kid is 7, so I'm really interested in learning from people with kids just a bit older than him, all the way up to people who have kids that are all grown up!
My kid is 15 and had really bad ADD at age 7 (teachers calling us and telling us to medicate him - we didn't). The problem with my kid is that no matter WHAT team he was on, the parents would talk him up like he was a soccer god, and sometimes even the COACH would do the same ('how well he plays, how strong he is, how he makes a difference when he is out there') thing, and then he'd sit on the bench. I would be careful not to burn out your kid - see what he wants to do. There are real academies, as in USSF, a handful of "academies except in name" which consistently produce college and some pro players, and a LOT of places that call themselves academies. Talk to other parents, find good trainers. My son has been to many trainers, and all have taught him something. Watching pro games has helped him a lot. For example, his team was up 2-0, so as a forward his play would be to keep the ball in the corner for minutes at a time, and eventually get a corner kick or give up a deep throw-in that would be easy to defend. The team they put out ("resting him and his teammates") decided that they would "make it 3" and kept trying shots way outside the box and giving the ball straight to their goalie. Lo and behold, it was 2-2, both goals given up late by defense trying to compensate for forwards not doing their job. When I think of soccer IQ, I think of the player knowing what to do *before* the play happens. It is not just footskills, scissors and Maradonas are great, but if they don't get you anywhere and you hog the ball (age 7 that's not an issue, 15, most definitely it is), you look like an azz. Soccer may be a simple game with a ball and two nets, but there is a lot of strategy - knowing what to do when, and how to work together is key. I like the idea of having someone as young as 7 try a few "fun" tournaments that are small-sided - 3 v. 3 or 5 v. 5, and see what other competition is like. I coached in a predominantly Hispanic/Portuguese community, and have seen some amazing players at U5 and U6. Then a few years later I saw them as mediocre 8 and 9 year olds. My son was the opposite, he kept working and no one picked him out at a young age as a "star". At 15, he is looking at D1 schools and possible semi-pro or pro, and being looked at by them. Apparently it didn't hurt him that at 7 he wasn't overly interested in soccer other than to run around - then again, they didn't even have real goals at the Y, so it's not much fun.
-started playing soccer at 4, along with other sports (swim, baseball, football, hockey, basketball, you name it!) -decided on 2, year-round competitive sports because he was excelling at both (soccer and swim) at 7 *this was when he started to appear noticeably better than his peers - he is naturally very athletic which helped, no doubt, but when he started juggling and focusing on ball control, plus he's ambidextrious, he left the others behind) -He left rec to play club at 8. He made the the strongest team for a competitive club, played his own age group for a year. Then got moved up at about 9 to play 1 and 2 years up for the 'A' teams in the same club. -scouted / noticed at soccer camp and invited to a trial in Portugal at 9.5 years, and another from an Academy in Mexico -at 10, he was offered a position in a residential soccer training school in the US, so as a family, we moved so he could have the opportunity while living at home. This was when he decided to drop competitive swim (he couldn't eat enough calories to cover his daily output and it was just too many hours of training) -at 11 he was taken to a scouting session in another country and asked to travel to Italy and Spain for trials *He has not travelled to any of the trials. The trial is for a spot in an academy where he'll live (without us!) for aprox. 2 years. As a family, we decided he wouldn't leave home until 13 so we'll look into those trials in a year or so. -Right now, he's playing for the a very large US club (always in the top 3), on their A team in his own age group, mostly as center mid, but some forward and wing too. He also plays Pre-Academy for the same club in his birth year and 1 year up, ODP for his year & year up, and does the residential soccer training. And a futsal team. At 7, 8, 9, it was apparent from his dribbling skills, speed and goals scored. At 10, as he played with the older boys - 11 and 12, it became his knowledge of the game - perfect passes, assists, and just smart playing that made him a good player. Every now and then, he'd show us that he could still dribble, but it was more of a passing game at those ages We've had many people comment on his ability since he was about 7. One of my all time favorite was when a dad from the other team commented on how good my 8 year old son was, then the dad he was talking to said, Well, have you seen how much he PRACTICES? At about 6.5, he just decided he wanted to be better than the other kids on his team, got his ball and started doing his thing. He is still VERY competitive and very much a perfectionist - not just in soccer, but in everything. Last year, he practiced about 40 hours a week! The MiCoach in his shoes showed us that he runs an average of 35 miles per week! Now, we've adjusted his schedule due to some over-use and growing pains and he's at about 25 hours a week. He also analyzes about 4-5 hours of pro games weekly.
Good luck with that. The kid I mentioned who quit at 13 had exactly the same profile, if not more practicing and more perfectionism. My son never does more than 20 hours of soccer per week, except for a few weeks back he did about 30 hours just because of how things turned out (college combine). And I'm curious - there are "residential soccer training schools" in the US, and they recruit 10 year olds? Also curious about "playing for the club and the pre-academy" teams - my understanding is that you can't be rostered to both at the same club. And he is ranked nationally/has been invited to BNT camps? One thing I agree with 100% - being ambidextrous helps a lot. And as for other people commenting on your kid's ability, it means nothing unless they actually have connections. My son met a goalie a few weeks ago who, along with his father, remembers my son scoring on the goalie in a State Cup game FOUR years ago. I guess some kids can get that kind of attention without being manic about training - it is difficult to get very active kids to eat enough though, especially since they have been cutting down school lunch sizes and calories because of lazy parents letting their kids eat cookies and candy at home all day.
Well, this is my son's thing and if he decides to quit in a year, then that's his choice - although I don't see that happening, he's still very much in love with the sport. I have 4 other sons who play so there's always games to watch =) Really though, my boys just have to be involved in something active, I don't care if its soccer or whatever... As far as the residential school in the US, yep, he did start at 10 but our situation was different because he's homeschooled. I believe the actual school (education) is for older kids, but my son can do his schoolwork at home and just goes to training with the older players. Apparently, this is the only year he'll be able to do PA and club b/c of the age - its younger and only state wide. He'll have to choose soon I understand. I also heard someone say you can't do ODP and PA, but that was just a parent so we'll wait until someone who matters tells us he can't do both. The eating is tough...he's growing like a weed and expending a lot of calories, so he's eating all day. We've always been very strict on what the kids eat, we don't eat out and there's rarely empty calories consumed. And no, I don't think there are any rankings for his age and he still has a couple years till BNT (U14, right?) Obviously, he hopes to go that route and want to make the right decisions - hence the other thread / question - who has sent more U14/U15 to the BNT pools - ODP or PA? Anyone with info, please answer that post!
There is a U13 BNT camp, and there are ID camps for USSF academy programs. Just another question - all these offers were free, or were they at your cost? Those in my area (near NYC) who went "on trial" at younger ages paid for air fares and room and board, but the trial itself was "free". Those who were "picked" from clubs still had to pay quite a bit. I don't think the younger BNT selections mean squat. I know of at least 20 players who were U14 or U15 BNT, but only two are still under any consideration for the residential program. The statistics I have heard is that less than 3% of the recent U18 MNT's were on youth BNT's younger than U16. If you stay with a USSF academy, that's a good bet. My son has played on as many as three teams at one time, now he is playing HS and club. I guess if your kid is homeschooled, the no HS for DA players isn't an issue. http://www.ussoccer.com/teams/youth.aspx http://www.usclubsoccer.org/main.aspx?sec_id=16&guid=f264502d-c128-47d4-8cdb-f1426d0023eb You mentioned "growing like a weed" and assumedly 11 or 12 years old. We find in our area, of those 20 kids, they were all near 6' tall at age 12. The two still in the national program are not much over 6' now at 15 years old. One key aspect of keeping your son in a USSF DA program is that they *will* market your son if they feel he is qualified and will either get onto their pro team at some point or get them a transfer fee.
The offer to Italy/Spain would pay for him entirely - airfare, room, food ect. And they were ready to just fly him on over, but because of his age, we decided at least one of us would have to go with him, he's too young and never been away from us for an extended period. It just didn't make since financially for one of us to go, so we thought we'd wait until he could actually take advantage of the offer, if he did well enough to be asked to stay. (Portugal & Mexico said to get him there, they'd take care of the rest for 1 month) that's good to know about the younger BNT, goes to show it makes senses to stick with it - and that they like big kids =) The ODP coaches make it sound like the only way there is through their program, which is why I'm very interested to see how many of the pool players were actually chosen through the ODP system, and how many through PA One of the ODP coaches was talking about a MLS DA player in our area that had offers to go overseas, but the club demanded a ridiculus amount of money to force the player to stay - ever heard of something like that?
I don't know what state you are in, but ODP programs run from fair to horrible. And your state obviously has a USSF DA program within driving distance of where you live. I have seen at least 80-20 from USSF DA vs. non-DA programs, and not all the 20% were through ODP. Regarding contracts etc., players have to be careful because MLS clubs only recently got "ownership" of their players. The best thing I can say about ODP is that a player who was great at ages 12 and 13 and now is mediocre at age 15, still is ranked 4 stars on TopDrawerSoccer due to ODP and making the regional team at 12. He is now on an academy program. The question is whether your son would want to play professionally or you would want him to go to college. College is a waste of time for a young athlete, there is more than enough time to go to college after your body has worn out. In England, they get kids to drop out of high school to go to soccer academies, and these kids end up thrown out at 18 or 19 with no HS diploma and no job prospects, rejected as not being good enough for pro - but the academy took away their chance at a real job. If your kid is really a big deal at his academy, he should not be on a pre-academy team, he should be on an academy team. RBNY had a 2000 birth year player on their 97 pre-academy team, and I have heard he is on their U15/U16 academy team (playing up three years). I have heard stories like yours as I used to coach in a heavily immigrant community. I have seen players who others marvel over. And I only know of two (not those other two on the current U15 BNT I am talking about) who are national quality, and they can't play for the US. They are poor so they owe their club and cannot go to an academy because of this. If your son is with a club that has placed players in top colleges (Maryland, Akron, etc.), MLS, semi-pro, and pro in other countries, that's where your son should be. If you are okay with sending him overseas, read the Shiposh and other story posted here (if they aren't here, they are on another similar thread). If you *seriously* want your kid to play in one of the best leagues in the world, you have to look at him going overseas. Here are a few stories of "superstars" from the US: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giuseppe_Rossi https://www.bigsoccer.com/community/threads/zack-shiposh-at-ft-braunschweig-u19.1750157/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Kassel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clint_Dempsey Note the different outcomes and paths.
My son (now 13) has always been recognized as athletic. He started playing soccer at age 6 along with other organized sports, i.e. basketball, t-ball. He excelled at all the sports but more so at soccer. He played on some low level rec teams and dominated. He even played with his older brother's team and dominated (3 years older). His ability to control the ball set him apart the most. 300+ juggles as an 8 year old. About age 9 we moved him to a larger rec league run by the largest club in the local area and he joined a team one year older. This team did very well and decided to move to the local club league. The team joined a national club as the local team at his age level as they would let the team stay together. This is not likley the best method to start playing club soccer but he developed good skills because of good coaching and the fact we lived in Alaska where small sided and indoor was 3/4 of the year. When he was 10 we moved to a desert climate. Soccer was much bigger here so he tried out for the biggest club at his age group. He again dominated beause of his athleticism and ball skills. He probably should have played up again. He also had good field vision for his age and thus became the play maker on the team. Unfortunately, the club soccer is disorganized in this desert location and he bounced to another team/club when the larger club folded. However, he stayed with a great coach (former pro) that teaches good technique and the right way to play (no kick and run). This past year he excelled in ODP and was called into USSF training centers. He was then called to the u-14 USSF boys camp and is currently in the pool with the next camp next month. No academy in this town. Recognition has come through ODP, training centers and tournaments.
About ODP - did he do well, or did the team do well too? My son was "promised" to get in some regional games because he dominated both on his ODP team and against other teams. His team however did not do well - a lot of politics. At the camp, he wasn't invited to a regional game at all, and to top it off, one of the players who was invited from our state scored three own-goals during the ODP tournament. Several non-US citizens were invited to the regional pools - most of whom could not speak English. We realize that ODP was not the right path from him. I would also not discount the role of a "former pro" especially if they have US MNT experience or are well-known from another country. Amazing that Jurgen's kid got called up straight to US BNT camp without going through ODP or being picked as the best in the area... I'd like to see a survey on height as well - I've heard anecdotes about "shorter players" - 5' tall at age 12, not more than 5'6" at age 15 - getting through, but when I look at the numbers, it seems to be an advantage to hit puberty early and be more than 5'6" at 12 and near 6' tall at age 15. Being 5'6" at age 15 is considered short as far as I can tell, and beating bigger, apparently stronger players meant nothing until my son's current club. I'm glad your son has gotten recognition, our state used to be one of the "top producers" for the US MNT, but that was when our ODP program was good. Many states take their state ODP teams overseas or to extra tournaments, but ours not only have limited practices (about five before ODP tournament, a few more before regional camp) but also have cut various activities over the past few years - not to mention it is $50 to try out. The best non-academy players tried ODP and gave it up. If a player is starting HS, and not getting recognition, I would have to say college camps are the way to go. Unless you are well-heeled, then you should look into getting your kid on a European tour to get some exposure to foreign coaches.
My son is 15 years old and only 5' 1" tall. One would think a late grower that is on the same level as the early growers despite being sometimes a foot (or more) shorter as well as 50+lbs lighter would be someone to keep an eye on. Makes too much sense I guess.
It's true about certain coaches, but not about others. My son was taller than his previous coach, who was the top USL scorer for several years, but the coach consistently would play bigger and/or older players regardless of my son's play. I'm glad you have enlightened coaches. It will all work out in the end, college coaches definitely recognize that a HS freshman scoring on a HS junior means something.
My sons team dominated in ODP championships and won the tourney. My DS then did well in regional camp and even played games with the 97's and 96's. He cannot attend the inter-regional event with his age group due to national team camp but he is going to attend the 97 and 96 age group events in Dec. It should be a good experience for him to play with the older players to learn to play faster. I credit his coaches for this decision. ODP is definitely hit or miss depending on the state/region. Very dependent on the coaches/directors/state organization. Ideally selection would be solely based on ability/talent but that does not always happen. I would not be surprised to see it go away eventually. However, it was a great help for my DS since there is no US dev academy teams here. He got recognition for the national team because of ODP. Before ODP disappears I hope the dev academy has enough peneteration into smaller markets to find kids like my DS. He has always been tall for his age but not always tall for the team he was on/competing against. He played up a lot to ensure he didn't learn to rely on his size too much. He is 6' tall now at age 13. Incidentally his coach is about 5'2". I don't think he is done growing yet (son not coach). I am 6'4" and I grew until I was 20. If he grows until he is 20 he may reach Peter Crouch type size. The advice I would give to utilize the best path toward recognition possible US dev academy if available. If not then training centers or ODP. Find a good coach with at least national/regional connections to fight for recognition for your player. Any recommendations out there on the need/timing to seek international connections/training/trials for the elite players? At what age would you recommend seeking out these type experiences?
Not younger than 14 in my opinion, but the difficulty is whether your child wants to go to college or not. Most would be hung up at going to college right after HS, but to me (a college professor) it is not the right time for many kids. Be very careful with "pay to play" deals. I would say look on your local and regional soccer boards to see about scouts coming here first. Several EPL clubs have visits to our area, and most allow outside players to attend camps (for a charge, but they get a camp out of it). I would find it *very* difficult to send my son away younger than 16, and there would have to be a well-documented and well-respected program behind the offer. I cannot imagine sending your child to be on a third-division academy team in Germany, just to say he plays internationally.
Reviving this thread because I found a video on youtube of my DS when he was 8 or 9. He is the kid wearing a yellow Brazil shirt and black shorts with hair like Fellaini only lighter! His few seconds starts at around 7.36 - I wouldn't bother to watch the whole video. Be gentle!
For me too many parents mistake talent and current ability. there are many things you can see in young children that you know can develop them into better players, running style for instance. These qualities may not make them the best u8 or u9 player but they are the base athletic foundations you can build on to develop excellent u16's and u18's. When I was younger I ws involved in two sports at a fairly high level, played Academy ball in Holland in soccer and fenced for the US National team, both initial introductions to development programs did not involve actually playing either sport, in fact when I fenced I did not touch a weapon for the first two years. When I look at talent I seldom look for who is scoring but rather who demonstrates good athletic foundations and who can control themselves and their surroundings, maybe confidence is a better word. Now by u12 i would look at sport specific skills but by then the best talent has generally left the sport. Mizram Great first touch in the video..nice control for an 8yr old
Thanks! I was a little wary about posting it in fear of getting a ton of "he's crap, deluded parent!" comments. This might warrant its own post, but Gary Kleiban's latest blog brings up an interesting issue, that of circumstance. I watched the video of the U14 BNT with Ben Lederman who is the same age as my son, and frankly no better than my boy (my son is looks to be taller and I would say more athletic as well), they also both play the same position and their style of play is very similar, so I think that in the years to come their paths will likely cross. I wonder if my kid would have been at Barcelona given similar circumstances? We are lucky that we live where we do and he is in a progressive MLS program and he has been singled out as a "prospect", but how hard are they going to work on promoting him? Their track record so far has been good as far as this goes with their older academy players, so I hope he will be treated in the same way. http://blog.3four3.com/2012/11/29/soccer-matters-of-circumstance/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed: 3Four3 (3four3) Matters of Circumstance My brief text exchange with Brian during U14 National Team camp.Who ‘makes it’ versus who doesn’t is just as much amatter of circumstance as it is a player’s quality. Ben Lederman wasn’t some super-human, “Holy Frijoles Batman!”, out of this universe player. But before we proceed, let’s get something clear: he was a player of real quality and potential before he left to Spain. And having seen him train with our U12s this summer, and most recently at the U14 National Team camp, I can say he’s gotten way better. Only the untrained eye would question his call-up to Hugo Perez’s camp. Now, the rest: He was playing in Southern California. What if, instead, he had been playing in Montana? His team manager made a connection with a club who at the time happened to have a relationship with Barcelona. What if that connection didn’t happen? The decision was made (and possible economically) to take Ben’s team to compete in Barcelona. What if that didn’t happen? Barcelona agreed to play a match against Ben’s team. What if they hadn’t agreed for whatever reason? Barcelona rolled out their B-team for this match (pretty sure they thought they were going to destroy this ‘fan club’ from America). Ben’s team jumped out to a 3-1 lead. Barca then rolled out their A-squad. Final score 4-1. Spanish eyes were opened! So … the what if’s: What if Barca rolled out their A-team from the beginning? What if Ben’s team was not as talented individually as it was? If Ben’s team was not of sufficient level and they got thrashed, would he have been identified? Would a trial have been arranged the following year? Or what if … Barca had an outrageous crop of players on that team already – would they have made room? After the trial, how important was the relationship between Barcelona and us in determining whether they offer Ben a spot? What if Ben’s family didn’t have the wherewithal and the brass balls to uproot the family and move to a foreign country? And so on … ad infinitum. Yes. You need to have a requisite quality or potential as a player. But there’s soooooo much more to it than that! How many other players across the nation could be in Benny’s shoes if their ‘Matters of Circumstance‘ lined up? (Don’t all you parents jump on that boat at once.) How many former college players would have been drafted if their team had made it to the college cup instead of not even making the tournament? How many current MLS players wouldn’t be pro if they hadn’t landed on the ‘right’ college team? What player would not have been released from their pro club, if the coach were someone else? Would Jermaine Jones ever smell the National Team jersey if Marcelo Bielsa were the coach? Would Dempsey have been playing Champion’s league with a top 10 club if his ‘Matters of Circumstance‘ were different? How many players would have been recruited to a top D1 school if only their club coach had more initiative and influence? I mean … we could do this all day! The Problem It seems to me that it’s difficult to appreciate the magnitude of these things. Human beings tend to simplify the world around them, so they may navigate it. We are creatures of generalizations – particularly when it comes to topics we’re ignorant or novices in. It’s far easier to have a blanket worldview where the ‘cream rises to the top’, than to take the difficult journey of acquiring domain expertise. It’s far easier to believe Josh Gatt got to where he is because he’s among the very best produced American players, than say he’s primarily there due to ‘Matters of Circumstance‘. How much is a particular player’s situation due to quality, versus circumstance? Well, that requires some expertise in what quality means and an appreciation for what the field of circumstances are, doesn’t it? Every time you reach another level of domain understanding (or sometimes just experience), you realize things aren’t as simple as they seem from the outside.
Of course circumstance has a ton to do with how we all proceed in life, not just in soccer. I generally feel that talent will be found, may take a while but if your son is that good its only a matter of time
I am pretty confident he is in the best place for us at this moment in time, but we are reliant on the club to do their best for him, thankfully, it is one of the MSL clubs that really have to develop their own talent and are making it a priority.
When I was younger I was very much like your son..always wanting to be the best. When I went to play in Europe I quickly found out I was not nearly as good as I thought playing in the US. It was hard to take. If he is getting good training and continues to enjoy where he is then really can we ask for more?
This is the problem for young players in the US, they are competing with players from every country, not just Europe, Japan is producing some great young talent, as is Africa. Then there are all the South Americans. It isn't easy, so I agree the first priority is to enjoy playing the game.
Watch Lederman in the various Barcelona vids on line where you can see him with teammates that play intelligently. His awareness and intelligence on the field is really exceptional. They don't give out the 10 shirt by accident at La Masia. People have been running him down on line but I don't think they even know what they are looking at. There are some amazing ballers on those Barcelona USA teams and he is the only one that has been picked so far. He's been lucky, but La Masia has lots of players to choose from, from all over the world. I think a better way to watch his vids is to ask yourself what is it that La Masia thinks is so superior that it was worth a contract and the 10 shirt.
For any parent with a kid that attracts attention it is a good idea to make video highlights of both matches and practice, so you can send a dvd to soccer Academies, if you arenot afraid for yor kid to go abroad if he is good enough to enroll into top Academies.
Before sending a child to one of the top Academies keep in mind that it is more than just physically what they can do on the field, but the mental aspect of the experience can be difficult to handle. I think it would be the exceptional child who can handle the experience before 16. There will be some seperation issues and the fact that they will probably go from a star status to one of many, ok one of a select few. This can be very trying on a young person. I was one of the players who had a more difficult time handling the mental aspects of Academy life. Maybe it has changed in the 30 years since I made the trip, but there was little support for this huge change and the focus was what happened on the pitch not the challenges a child would have off of it. I ended up dropping out and moving back to the US after just 2 years.