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Discussion in 'Youth & HS Soccer' started by UglyParent, Oct 4, 2012.
Ha, He does not.
Last month a group of ODP Kentucky youngsters visited our Feyenoord Academy.
I wonder how the KYSA came up with this idea.
What do you think of it?
Here's the story of 2 of them: http://www.state-journal.com/2016/04/19/pair-of-local-soccer-players-get-chance-to-play-in-europe/
From left, Quinn May, a sophomore at Franklin County High School, and Devin Craig, a sophomore at Frankfort High School, were on the Kentucky Youth Soccer Association’s Olympic Development Program teams that went to Holland. (Hannah Brownemail@example.com)
By John Minor
Softball: Lady Flyers hold off Boyle County
Softball: Fast start propels WHHS to victory
Baseball: Flyers fall to Dunbar
Get pumped up for a bloody good cause
The year of the outsider
Pair of local soccer players get chance to play in Europe
Published 1:29 pm Tuesday, April 19, 2016
Two local high school soccer players had the opportunity to experience the sport in Europe.
Franklin County High School’s Quinn May and Frankfort High’s Devin Craig were a part of the Kentucky Youth Soccer Association’s Olympic Development Program teams that went to Holland.
May and Craig, both sophomores and members of the club team Lexington FC, earned a spot on the 18-player teams via tryouts. The teams consisted of players born in 1999 and 2000.
“I just really enjoyed getting to go to Europe with some of my friends and pull soccer into that because that’s what we all love to do,” May said. “I thought it was really cool that we could make a trip out of it.”
The teams, made up of players from across Kentucky, trained with the youth academy under Feyenoord Rotterdam, which competes in the highest professional soccer level in the Netherlands. The Dutch team ranked as the number one youth player development club in the Netherlands.
“I was glad to have the experience to be able to train at a professional
Let me just second that. Take it from someone who has seen it first hand, the kid is a playmaker. Great future ahead of Brooklyn.
Just to bad he is playing in the wrong Brooklyn
While I won’t be one of those people throwing videos of his kid out onto the internet every week, one of the things I do think could be really cool about a thread like this is that if, from time to time, a video gets posted, we can kind of watch these kids grow in the game. To that end, way back on page 5 you can find the first vid I posted of my oldest son. That was three years ago, at age 9. Nowadays, with two boys playing a lot of soccer, we don’t get as much video as we would like, but here’s a short compilation of some of the things he’s doing at age 12. He and I put this together mainly to highlight his passing (although I think there’s a random header goal in here, if memory serves). My previous two caveats apply – 1) mom is the videographer, and 2) dad is the editor, so all thoughts about quality should be passed through that filter.
He's a solid player. Good passing vision and decent ball skills. It's interesting though. At age 9, his skill set seemed more special because few 9 year olds can play at the level he showed at that age. But I have to say that I know of dozens of 12 year old kids in my relatively small area who consistently can do all the same things shown in that video. It's just harder to distinguish yourself at age 12 when a much higher percentage of the high level players are trying their hardest and focused on execution. At age 12, it takes something a little more special to really stand out from the pack, like ridiculously good ball skills or next level speed and quickness.
I'm not meaning to burst your bubble because your kid is certainly a very good soccer player who is developing nicely. I would recommend getting him some experience against higher level defenders who will push him to develop better skills and execute them more cleanly. Most of the defenders in that video are quick to bite on pretty much any fake -- even the simple pull-back turn he pulled two or three times in the video -- and the attacker doesn't have to be crisp, keep the ball close and explode out of the fake to escape the pressure.
I take my just-turned 13 year old to the place where the top level high school kids play pick up and let him test his skills against them. He quickly finds that a little sole roll or a slow motion Maradona ends up with a loss of the ball and your butt on the turf. So he executes faster and more cleanly, because he has to. That's just one of the problems with U12 soccer: the defenders are naive and can be faked out without much effort.
Again, solid player. No doubt.
No bubble burst, man. Thanks for taking the time to watch and to offer thoughts. It’s all good.
Since, as I stated, it’s a video specifically put together to highlight passing accuracy and touch, and not necessarily beating defenders, I do have a question for you. Take a look at the very last clip in the video. That’s a chipped pass played over the top of two defenders, perfectly laid in the path of a running striker. If the striker doesn’t shy away he either scores or is fouled by the keeper. My guy played it in one touch, across his body, with a man on.
You really know dozens of 12 year olds who have that pass in the toolbox? That can drop a short range chip into a 5 gallon bucket, one touch, under pressure? Not horsing around before training but actually during match play, see that pass and execute it? I just spent the weekend at an event that included a state cup winning team from VA and a state cup finalist from NC in our pool, and I didn’t see a pass like that all weekend long. Do you live in Rio?
He's developing nicely; while his dribbling and ball control are solid, you're on the right track emphasizing his passing because that is the part of his game that impressed me from the clip. I've known lots of kids that age with similar ball control--and arguably better speed/lateral quickness--but all too often they are ball hogs, or even if not they play with their head down and don't see good passing opportunities.
I hope your boy sticks with it!
I'm not looking to argue with you. Your boy could make the roster for any rising U13 team in my area. My opinion, though, is that nothing in that video, including the pass you're referring to, shows anything I don't routinely see in high level U12 games in my area. It's not a knock on your son. I'm not saying he's not high level. Just saying that I don't see anything unique or transcendent about his game that sets him apart from the better players on the roster of most u12 A teams.
Oh no, I’m certainly not looking to argue either. Sorry if you took it that way. Like I said, I honestly appreciate the time you took to watch and give feedback. I don’t expect anyone to watch that video and ask when Pep Guardiola is flying in to see him. I was genuinely curious about the level of play in your area.
We’ve talked several times on this thread about stages players go through. This is the player he is right now, and this is the part of the game he values. Two years ago he was running at defenders and beating them. Now he’s trying to be Ozil. Two years from now, who knows? He’s growing so damn fast right now, sometimes I’m surprised he can run four steps without tripping.
Hes got good skills and a great touch on his passing especially for his size. Love those chips. I see so many kids his size try to bulldoze through other players but to only lose the ball. I would rather see a player lose the ball trying to make a complicated move than by only using their size and athleticism any day of the week.
unique or transcendent about his game
This part is fascinating to me.
Messi looks like Messi viewing clips when he is very young, still he was actually moved at 13. How much did Barca elevate what was already developed ?
In the small list of players that were moved very early and are successful players today...How many players are not?
I see what I deem as dominant above average players all the time. Dominant young players all start to look the same, though obviously they have different facets to their game.
I remember Jackie Charlton saying that Roy Keane did not impress him the first time he scouted his play.
Not relevant and a completely different sport but Mariucci\Walsh had Tom Brady in for two separate workouts whereby they deemed him below average in many aspects of his game, did not draft him etc. and you know the rest.
Anyway I really enjoyed watching the clips, great vision of the field\decision making.
It is hard to evaluate with confidence from a short video. Nonetheless, he is a definitely a strong 12 year old player. I thought his vision was exceptionally good. Some of his ball movements in tight places were very good and reflected a lot of practice.
There is a lot to like. Definitely a lot of potential. He is a very good player IMO. Like all kids his age, just keep practicing, enjoying the experience, and see where it leads.
Some attacking players have that "it" factor that makes them special in a way that's obvious to everyone. This often comes in the form of high level balls skills coupled with some physical feature, like speed, quickness or strength. Or it may be skill combined with unique field sense, vision or decision making. Or a perfect first touch. Without sufficient ball skills the extra factors, in most cases, are not going to get you very far, but having one of those extra factors makes you really stand out for all to see.
One thing I look for in a youth player is whether the ways in which they are finding success will translate to a higher level of play. For example, some youth strikers lack the ability to strike the ball properly and float all their long distance shots with little power, relying on the fact that the keeper is only five feet tall and cannot stop a 7 foot high shot. That's not going to cut it once the keepers are 6 feet tall. Some kids beat players with simple tricks and little to no explosiveness. That's not going to beat anyone once you start facing higher level defenders. But if you are striking the ball with ferocious power, or beating players with moves and at speeds that are tough to defend at any level, then you've got my attention.
High level passing skills are maybe the most difficult to judge at the youth level. There are lots of opportunities to shred a young team with a nice pass. Those opportunities decrease as the speed of play increases and opposing defenses transition from clueless kids to wicked smart adults. Time will tell.
I just saw an advertisement for a camera called solo shot. You put something on the shirt of a player. The camera automatically follows the player for up to three hours. It could also put it on the Internet.
Perfect way to show a players complete game and not just a high light tape which I dislike.
Ncsoccer dad I know you wanted to high light your sons passing. But you should have kept the camera on him to show what he does after he made the pass. Does he get back into the flow of play after he makes his pass or does he just admires his pass. You should continue to film him after he makes his pass.
Thanks to everyone who took the time to watch and comment. Again, I know the guy isn’t a La Masia candidate. I just think it’s cool that this thread is still going and we can take a look at what stages of progression look like for a kid who has some talent and works hard. I posted one of the my younger boy around page 7 or so I think, when he was 6. Maybe after fall season I’ll throw another one of him out here.
Hey nicklaino, if you’ve got $600 you can slide my way, I’ll go ahead and order that Solo Shot.
Seriously though, his mom films, and she’s not what you would call classically trained in videography. If we are blessed enough to need a recruiting video in a few years, we will think more seriously about investing in the right equipment and maybe getting some professional help. Right now, filming a 12 year-old, I’m happy if half of what happens in the general vicinity of the ball is in frame.
I can understand this from the perspective of through balls. Lot's more space and time in an 8v8 game of 12 year olds than an 11v11 game of 18 year olds. Time to see the angles and space to feed the ball through. Will the kid still be able to weight the pass properly when it has to travel faster to get through the initial gap? Is he accurate enough to put it through a window that has shrunk by several feet since he was 12?
I do think, however, that the ability to produce quick combinations with teammates can be assumed to translate as players grow, all things being equal. Kids who can play 2s and 3s with one or two teammates at 12 can generally do that at 18 as well. That's just been my experience.
As a general rule, what you want to do is just follow your son--keep him in the middle of the frame all the time. Don't follow the ball. Then you can edit the film later. Also, you want to zoom out so you're filming roughly a third of the field.
It's easier said than done, because you're not watching the game, which is hard to do--it's natural to want to watch the game while you're there. But if you want good footage of your son, ignore that urge and just patiently keep filming him the entire time.
I don't disagree with you as far as your statement goes. But keep in mind that all high level 18 year olds can string together combination passes like overlaps, wall passes and through balls. The question is just how good they are at it, both in terms of technical ability and in terms of reading the play and making a good decision.
Some kids advance early and can play a good wall pass at, say, age 10. Does this early adoption of a high level tactic mean that this youth player will necessarily be an exceptional passer at an older age? I would say that it does not. The player is unlikely to regress and lose the ability to play combination passes altogether, but whether the player will be able to constantly progress and adapt to ever quickening speed of play is another question altogether. And even if he can progress and adapt, will his passing ability really be that much better than that of his peers?
Some kids are a little late to adopt certain skills. For some it might be properly striking a ball, others it might be settling and still others might be late to start employing combination passes. They may have the skill and use it constantly in practice, but have not yet figured out how to use the skill in a formal game context where there is information overload. This does not mean that they will not catch up to their early adopter peers. A kid who plays his first wall pass at age 13 may very well end up being the best passer in his peer group at age 18.
My point is that we just don't know. But the fact that a kid is playing nice combination passes at age 12 is great, and shows that the player is an early adopter of high level tactics, which gives him a nice head start and bodes well for his future.
When my son was 12, he had the most velvety-smooth first touch you could imagine--or at least it seemed that way, compared to his peers. Even coaches who didn't think much of him otherwise recognized it. He was really calm on the ball, and he always looked for the great pass.
Now, at the age of 18, his first touch is...good, but not jaw-dropping. His passing game is pretty good, but he's a much better short-passer than long; he hasn't become all that exceptional. I'd always thought he'd be a great CM but while he's played that position some he doesn't pull the strings as much as I thought he would based on his progress 5-6 years ago.
OTOH--he's become quite a bit faster than I thought he would (he was subpar at 12), and a much more aggressive dribbler than he used to be. Based on how he played at 12, it was "obvious" to me that he'd be a central playmaker; now, he's much more comfortable and effective on the wings. You never know.
I've found this thread tonight following a google search I did (reason to be explained) looking for how to identify talent.
Coming from the UK it has been interesting for me to see what is, I assume, a predominantly US point of view; so while the answers I was looking for were not here per se I was hooked and read a good number of the 16 pages of this thread.
A great community you have here. I hope you don't mind me adding my tuppence worth.
I currently coach an u15 side in the fourth division of the local Boys' league. I have had the team since they were 7, seen them through 7, then 9 and ultimately 11 a side.
Over the years we have gone from stars then, after losing players to 'better' clubs, the whipping boys of the league to this year being unlucky to have missed out on promotion and regularly receiving positive comments from opposition coaches and supporters along the lines of being the best footballing side in the league.
Why is that relevant?
Well, many of the posts in this thread seem to have been about kids who are, to me, very young.
I agree these conversations can/should go on about top drawer prospects but bear with me
My midfield enforcer has been with me from the age of 7 and was for a lot of years a player I would inwardly wince when it was time to play him (we operate a fair playing time policy). He now terrorises opposition midfields and defenders by aggressively winning the ball and launching an explosive counter attack.
I have three players who have been at Premiership/Championship academies at younger ages (2 at Hull City, one at Leeds) but for various reasons dropped out of the academy system.
1 'too small', 1 pigeonholed into a position he did not want and the third cut due to the very high level of competition for midfield places (everyone wants to be a midfielder).
This season we had a scout from Sheffield Wednesday come and watch and scout a player from the opposition (he needed our agreement for him to attend the match).
At the end of the game he took me by surprise by coming to me before going to talk to the opposition manager and asking for details of 3 of my players. 2 of them had previously been at academies, the third had never been anywhere near one and was a real surprise to me.
He is one of our midfielders (not the enforcer I refer to above). He is valuable to us albeit not someone I would have put in the academy bracket - ever. He was, however, the first player the scout asked about.
What did he like? 'Engine'
This player covers the vast majority of the pitch all game, tackles and runs like a demon, never backs out of a challenge and pushes attacks forward with his movement off the ball.
He has no outstanding juggling/dribbling skills and would be average at best in the 'Coerver' stakes but has a decent range of passes and vision in the game.
Players with better ball skills do not worry him - he has the vision and engine to close them down and shut them out of the game. He's also very good at getting into their head (the Australians call it sledging) and putting them off their game; often forcing more talented players to shy out physically or react and concede fouls.
The most interesting thing the scout told me? They are keen as an academy to see as many 15/16 year old players as they can because they are more than aware that players, certainly here in the UK, are overlooked or spat out by the Academy system at those ages.
He wants to see players like mine who develop late and/or left the academy system in the 11-14 age bracket - just to try and see what may have been missed.
As many have said before, the chances of anyone playing football for any kind of money are minuscule.
The best players are good at every age, but players I used to admire in opposition line ups (even in higher divisions) would not make my team any day of the week now.
Personally, I would much rather scout 16 year olds than any other age group, but I would need to know their footballing story. How hard did they have to work? What disappointment did they have? Why do they still play?
Apologies for the length of this post but you guys are responsible because you created such an interesting thread
I would echo what the other posters have said. Your son clearly has pretty good feet, a reasonable range of passes and good vision for his age.
The first few seconds of the video were interesting for me as his body language shows he has a level of self assurance which bodes well for him - mental strength will also be needed as he gets closer to adult football.
It also seems to me that he does not have much of an ego to speak of i.e. he is a team player who looks to bring others into the game which is a good thing.
I am no expert scout, just a middling coach, but do have some thoughts on what, if anything, the clips may also show.
By my count there are 14 clips.
1. A more aggressive defender would have contained him there. I would like to have seen a different first touch which actually took the ball away from the defender more quickly into some of the space he had either side giving him more time to burst away but nothing really wrong
2. He shows great desire here but lost a bit of his natural vision as his head was down. Rather than the shot, there was an easy ball to the player to his right who would have scored with a tap in. Again, nothing wrong - just decision making which will come with age. Again, a different first touch at 20 secs would have helped him get the time here
3. I love this one. Great interplay between him and the short dark haired lad - I think I spotted him in other clips - they look like a good pairing and the smaller lad shows great vision in the way in continued his run which made it easy for your son to demonstrate how well he can stroke the ball through; head up. Brilliant
4. Seemed a nice turn of speed and a well weighted pass. An opportunity to consider whether the simpler through ball for the small dark haired lad was better; not sure he would have been caught with a clear ball to burst onto - but not sure where the larger defender was looking before the ball was played.
5, 6, 7 & 8. Good skills, vision and passing again, but the lack of pace in his run after he made the pass was noticeable for me. He could help press the attack home by injecting pace/urgency into his support runs after the pass.
9. Simple header but in absolutely the right place so a sign of vision. As he gets older he should start to run onto the header to meet it - those goals look great
10. Again great persistence and absolutely the right decision and right pass.
11. Great ball, at the right time - again I was wondering where he was/what he did immediately after. Some of the clips show he has some pace and a burst
12. Good skills again and showing the desire and movement after the pass I questioned in other clips. This might be an example to show him for decision making. He had the option to go for the byline and make a cross (option 1) but chose the infield diagonal ball (option 2).
If you look he also had the full back coming up in support and a small diagonal for her to run onto on the overlap would have given your team another option for who made the final cross. All the defenders were drawn to him expecting the ball infield, a through ball for her unmarked down the wing would be (option 3).
All three options were valid. I would be just interested in why he chose the one he did as 1 and 3 would have given his team mates more time to arrive in numbers. The number of white shirts at the end of that clip show why that may have been important.
13. Good strength, nice pace. Clearly a team player in looking for the pass. I would be interested in why he did not try a chip over the oncoming keeper.
14. Not badly executed but not really the best option for me from what I could see of the situation, a first touch away from the defender to attack the byline would again have given his team mates more time to join the attack.
Not sure how much of this is welcome and I don't mean them as direct criticism of a player with some talent. Just what I would be thinking as a coach on the sideline if he played for me and what I would be asking him to consider adding to his game.
First time I am saw this but I will apologize if already posted.
"At 12 you can detect if technically a player can make it or not," expert talent-spotter Arsene Wenger said of his scouting process in an interview with FourFourTwo.
"At 14 to 16 you can detect if physically he will be able to cope with the demands of professional sport, and from 16 to 18 you can start to see if a player understands how to connect with other players. At 20 the mental side of things kick in."
In 2003, the Arsenal manager debuted Spaniard Cesc Fabregas at 16, still a team record, and started him in the 2006 UEFA Champions League final match against Barcelona at 19. That kind of experience for a teenager is unheard of on American soil.
Guys, the battle lost last night against Argentina was really lost over 15 years ago on the youth soccer fields. I am a Mexico fan with a young soccer playing son living in the US, we are all in it together. Next time you watch your sons play take a long hard look at the level of competition, the technique being shown or developed and the style of play and project it forward. Vast improvements are needed.
I think we are more in a bad repetitive cycle....And what I find frustrating is that words and theory go a million miles here but here theory is not practice. I feel like well over 15 years ago Tab Ramos criticized the average US player as not being as confident on the ball as the rest of the world. Yet he was part of a coaching staff last night that fielded Wondo and Zardes at the same time, Wondo can turn and shoot and Zardes is strong and fast both IMO have the heaviest feet in the MLS.
My point being is that I know very few soccer coaches that don't do and say all the right things...My sons former coach would say wins do not matter, wins do not matter yet his team had not lost in three years and he NEVER played kids out of position (obviously IMO trying to win).
Wins matter here. I do not think your average soccer parent here can or is ready to discern a team that wins from kids that are developing. IE a team that wins constantly may not develop or be developing. And yes you are right it falls on the parent or someone to determine that development is not happening. Are the kids learning ?
We would as parents get forwarded the same article by the club yearly....I will find it and post if I can.. "games are not important, its practices that are important to development yadda, yadda, I wish the guys who would send this read a single paragraph from it...
We left that club and joined a futsal club that was trounced at a tournament by the "manhatten Kickers" (15-0). I count that game as one of the best learning experiences for myself,wife, and son. We were exposed to a new ceiling of talent and his team had to persevere and were ultimately changed for the better from the experience. His prior squad would never have ventured that far fearing the bruised egos of parents and kids.
I honestly cannot understand the mentality but it is more than prevalent. The "rigged fights" of playing in a division that does not challenge and then announcing your undefeated schedule...Let me save you the time...You will win all your games next year....