Identifying Talent - How and When?

Discussion in 'Youth & HS Soccer' started by UglyParent, Oct 4, 2012.

  1. jamesk12

    jamesk12 New Member

    May 22, 2015
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    I think this is such an important factor to producing skilled players. The best coaches are always a must, but being supported not only on the field, but by the entire community takes everything to another level.
     
    BP9175 repped this.
  2. GoalkeeperDad

    GoalkeeperDad New Member

    Aug 25, 2014
    Here are 2 other clips of him playing. Took me a little time to produce it since the last post

     
  3. GoalkeeperDad

    GoalkeeperDad New Member

    Aug 25, 2014
  4. kerick23

    kerick23 New Member

    Jul 11, 2015
    I have three brothers we grew up and played sports all our lives and started at very young ages. Now I have a daughter of my owns so its second nature to nurture her into the same up bringing. We recently placed her into soccer, she's 5. She's been playing for about 5 months now. She has the basics down such as ball control, passing, shooting but at a beginner level, she even has some nice footwork down. My problem is that I want her to be better than what she is. I think it's the competive side of me.

    When her and I play alone she is aggressive as far as attacking but when she steps on that field she just shuts down. She gets really timid and shy. She doesn't hussle. She jogs behind the other kids. She doesn't attack instead waits for somebody to pass her the ball and often she freezes when she gets it. I know a lot of the kids on her team have been playing for longer and it shows.

    How can I encourage her to be aggressive and enthusiastic. I don't want to be harsh on her Bc I don't want to turn her away from the sport but I tell her constantly that she needs Hussle on the field and not be afraid of the ball or the other players. I try to toughen her up. As a parent this can be frustrating, I know she is very young and this may come with time. But I just want her to have fun and get the most out of her time on the field. I feel that in order for her to really Improve she needs to be active in scrimmage and the games. She does fine when she's doing drills and she doesn't have to face anybody.
     
  5. Oh, please don't. Your kid is 5. At our amateur clubs these kids, we call them cubs or puppies
    play without instructions. In fact I love the sight of those little kids on the pitch. They resemble a cloud of baby fish swarming around the mother fish. Where the motherfish is, is the swarm. On the pitch the ball is the motherfish and where the ball moves the "cloud" of cubs move in unity trying to get hold of the ball, not bothered by tactics, or notice of spreading over the pitch. No, their first and utmost priority is to be where the ball is and in that chaos trying to keep the ball if you are the one that has it or trying to snatch the ball away if you donot and enjoy themselves. No Dutch youth coach is going to intervene in this. Only in exercises with the ball they practice ball skills. but that is small change compared to the time they spend with their friends playing the ball in the street or grass lawns.
    Let your little girl discover for herself what her strength is and it will come naturally. Pushing is counter productive, because it becomes pleasing you and a chore instead of fun.
     
    bigredfutbol, luftmensch, equus and 3 others repped this.
  6. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Rep, rep, rep...
    Aside from learning to love the game, what a kid accomplishes before fifth grade is meaningless. that was the attitude here, at least: football is play time through grade 4, then it's serious as a heart attack. Pushing a little kid isn't the pressure that creates diamonds, its just pressure, and is often pushing away from loving the game.
     
  7. nicklaino

    nicklaino Member+

    Feb 14, 2012
    Brooklyn, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Your son can dive for a save on his right and his left that is a very good thing. I am not sure if he's has good hands or not. Do you know what a contour catch if so is he making them. Their should not be a lot of noise when he makes a catch.

    I still would like to see him at a keeper practice. You can tell if he can make a second and third save after the first one by watching a keeper practice. Run by a good keeper coach.
     
  8. kerick23

    kerick23 New Member

    Jul 11, 2015
    Thanks you're right. I guess I just want her to be the best on the field as every parent would. I know different kids take longer to break out of their shells on the field. I'm just going to keep practicing with her ball control and footwork skills. The basics such as passing, control using both feet, dribbling etc.. Once she does overcome her shyness, she will have an easier time handling the ball.
     
  9. nicklaino

    nicklaino Member+

    Feb 14, 2012
    Brooklyn, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    The advice you have been given is good advice.

    But in a year or two you should see a difference once she learns how to tackle in the right way and do some other physical play drills.

    I will post them, but don't do them with her now.

    How to make a good stand up block tackle. Then steal the bacon and the combat drills.

    Old post

    Let's talk about the stand up block tackle. It is all about timing and form not about being physical or big or even contact with the player. it is about winning the ball, then starting your teams attack.

    Tell player the idea is not to crash into the dribbler. The idea is to win the ball from the dribbler.

    I have the feeling nobody has worked with her on her tackling. So she doesn't know how to tackle.

    You don't go for the tackle when the dribbler has close control of the ball. You do close space on the dribbler. Meaning if the dribbler is alone you close that open space within two yards of the dribbler. That alone limits the dribbler options, her view of the goal and also her passing options.

    Then you position your self to be ready to tackle. You get into a side ways position, and again you wait for the moment where the dribbler does not have close control of the ball. Then at that time you go for the tackle. So it is a lot about the timing of the tackle knowing when to tackle.

    You never go straight into the player. Your not looking to bang into her just take the ball away from her. Then you can start your teams own attack.

    You come in from an angle to the left or the right of the dribbler not straight into the dribbler.

    You tackle using only the inside of the foot with a bended knee not stiff legged. You want to hit the center of the ball so your tackling foot should be slightly off the ground with the heal down, and toes up ankle locked. It looks very similar to the form she uses for her push passes.

    Can she make a good push pass by the way?

    So she hits the center of the ball, and the tackling foot follows through riding up the ball. That gives the ball top spin. You want to put top spin on the ball to help the ball go over the dribblers right or left foot depending on the angle she took. She wants to put the ball behind the dribbler off the dribblers left or right shoulder. Then you go to the ball and win the ball and start her own attack.

    If you don't hit the ball over the dribblers foot the first time. Immediately tackle the ball again, and keep tackling until she does win the ball.

    When you tackle you will hear a loud noise of your foot hitting the ball, not your foot hitting the dribbler and not the dribblers foot hitting her body. A loud noise but no one should be hurt either player. Both of you hit the ball at the same time again loud noise both neither player should be hurt because your just hitting a ball.

    Take a ball put it down. You come from one angle she comes from another angle you both hit the side of the ball your facing at the same time. You both will hear a loud noise, and you both will be okay.

    Do not turn your inside of the foot after the touch. Keep it square with the ball just like she does with the push pass. If she can't do the push pass think of it as when you putt in golf. You don't turn the face of the club immediately after the putt as your follow through you keep the face of the club in the direction you want the ball to go. The tackling foot also faces in the direction you want the ball to go. Also the non tacking foot points the direction you want the ball to go.

    Eye on the ball and tackle coming in from an angle, hitting the ball with the inside of your foot so it goes straight over one of the dribblers feet with your top spin follow through. You don't want to hit the ball into the dribblers body.

    Practice-last thing is you don't go for a tackle unless you have a team mate supporting from behind just in case you miss.

    Practice - once she understands that you are not making contact with the dribbler just the ball, and the foot to ball contact does not hurt she will be fine. Once she sees that she can win the ball she will be like the terminator on her tackles :)

    Good luck practice and have fun with it.
    --------------
    Steal the bacon

    Play steal the bacon, and on each end play with goals. It starts with a 50/50 ball situation. One of the players wins the ball then the defender again must win the ball not just knock it away. Who ever wins ball can then attack his goal to score. You dribble the ball into the goal or make a short push pass no shooting or long passes to score want to see battles for possession. The defender can chase the dribbler and try to win the ball back and then tries to score on his goal. You get 1 v 1 tacling practice, you get making recovery efforts to win the ball back, and you get scoring practice with a defender on you.
    ---------------------------------
    combat soccer

    April Heinrich's Combat Game



    This is a fun, aggressive and hard game that can be used as a fitness
    game
    for female youth players. It also teaches players to deal with
    cheaters in
    games.





    1.. Pull Combat
    · Players divide up. One ball between Two players.

    · You can pull anything you want, as long as you want, with ONE
    hand
    although don't stop the exercise if players use two hands.

    · The person who gets possession of the ball tries to maintain
    possession by shielding without dribbling away or being controlled by
    the
    aggressor.

    · Either player can possess the ball. When one player has the
    ball
    the other tries to get it from her.




    2.. Push Combat
    · Same game except players can push with one hand instead of
    pulling.




    3.. Fair Combat
    · April relates to the players that "Pulling and Pushing is
    cheating"
    so in this final game (Fair Combat) you must play fair.

    · Fair combat requires a lot of aggressive clean battling for
    the
    ball like you would see in a game.

    · If you have possession of the ball you cannot dribble away.

    · Using the hands and shoulders to shield or get possession is
    legal
    as long as players are not pushing or pulling
     
  10. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #335 bigredfutbol, Jul 12, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2015
    To repeat what others have said--you DON'T encourage her to be aggressive. That has to come from within, and for different kids it develops at different times. She's a kid--a lot of them have trouble playing their best in games because of the pressure--all these adults are suddenly watching her, after all. That can be very intimidating and distracting.

    Don't pressure her, don't do any of that. I did for awhile when my guy was just a little older that your girl is now, and I'm still ashamed of myself to this day. It didn't do any good, it just turned the ride home from games into an unhappy memory.

    I learned my lesson, though, and realized I had to relax and be a parent not a trainer. It took my son quite a while to break out of his shell--he suffered in terms of playing time for quite a few seasons before he put it all together and figured it out. But he finally did--and when he did, he was hard-working, had very good technical skills and is generally a great team player. If I had continued pushing him when he was a kid--and dammit, he was JUST A KID!--I don't think he would have stuck it out while his delayed competitive desire finally blossomed.
     
    tuffnut11 repped this.
  11. kerick23

    kerick23 New Member

    Jul 11, 2015
    I feel your pain, One of the MLS teams here has a summer program that my daughter is enrolled in. And even though they do little fun drills that they associates with animals and all that kid stuff they also encourage the kids to play and they scrimmage every practice. Just like you said I don't want to talk to her every time she doesn't hustle or do something good Bc I don't want her to resent me or turn her away. But at the same time I want to help and teach her. I don't want to be one of those parents who sits back and let's their kid not perform to their full potential then regrets it when they get in high school and are getting out played by their peers. I'm
    Just going to keep trying to inspire her and help her understand the game. I'm going to take her to her first MLS game next week so she can see that soccer is a lifestyle.
     
    R. Carrillo repped this.
  12. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Youth development is a marathon, not a sprint.

    Your main goal to help make sure she enjoys the sport so she sticks it out. That's been my experience--however, I wasn't much of a competitive athlete as a youth, nor did I have any experience playing soccer. So take that for what it's worth.
     
  13. R. Carrillo

    R. Carrillo Member

    Aug 15, 2013
    Long Island, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Great advice everyone is telling you, so I won't add to it, I will just use my own kid as a case study. We started about same age as you, and there was allot of "running next to opponent that has ball" and not wanting to shoot and being generally shy. Some kids start earlier and are more comfortable, some kids just start with that initial aggressiveness, like you I felt compelled to push my son to be more aggressive. However once I spied my son holding his hands anxiously, unsure as to what to do. Thats when I backed off. I realized that I would not stand over his shoulder in elementary school, criticizing and micro managing his schoolwork, so I sat back and trusted that he would figure it out. I watched other parents continually micro manage (get the ball, tackle... shoot, etc). I also let others take him to practice and gave him space. Almost a year later you can tell which kids weren't micro managed, they freely run around with reckless abandon, confidently trying new things and exuding confidence (gladly my son has come out of his shell), and you can tell which kids were (or are) micro managed, they constantly look to sideline for instructions while others zoom past them or connect passes with teammates. Every kid has a personality on the field, and the more reps they get the faster they come into their own. I'm sure your daughter will find her voice on the field, totally normal to ease into it.
     
  14. GoalkeeperDad

    GoalkeeperDad New Member

    Aug 25, 2014
    Just a recent game
     
  15. GoalkeeperDad

    GoalkeeperDad New Member

    Aug 25, 2014
    2 other videos, I think he is getting better.

     
  16. From talking to other parents and players who played soccer through college, the big thing is recognition and recruitment. Othee coaches want your kid on their team. Theu take skills clinics and camps and coaches recognize talent. They just excel comparitively above their peers.

    Thanks for sharing stories! My daughter is only 8 and it's all clicking in for her. Its weird that now that she's excelling, people are making comments. Most nice, but also frustrated if she doesn't make a goal. Their kids almost never have the ball and suddenly they are yelling at her from the sidelines. Parents, not coaches. If I compliment their child's playing, they seem to take it as throwing them a bone. I don't brag. I now stay quiet at games now. I think at age 8 a lot of kids start to get it and become more competitive. I'm hoping she keeps her trajectory. Enjoy her wins/successes privately
     
  17. PTS21

    PTS21 Member

    Sep 1, 2005
    Charlotte, NC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm half joking and half serious when I say this, but my five year old son is on pace to be the American Cristiano. He's always been very athletic, started walking by nine months, running by 10 months, ball at his feet really early and he comes from a family with a lot of soccer history.

    Last fall he was the one of the top scorers (if not the top scorer) in his U6 league just outside of Charlotte and he was only 4 years old. My wife had to actually persuade the league to let him play because they said he was too young. We are now three games into our new season and he's already up to 15 goals and I've been sitting him when the scores have been getting out of hand.

    It's not so much the quantity of goals as it is the quality. Two games ago he curled a free kick over a wall and into the upper 90. I think the ref swore when it happened. He came to me after and said he's never seen that in this age group. Today we were playing the "favorites" who have "three kids that play competitive soccer together" in another league. I'm not even sure what "competitive soccer" is at U6 but they weren't a match for my son who scored all our goals in a 5-4 win. Three of their goals came when my son was sitting out. One of his goals was a fantastic end to end run after tackling the ball away in our box.

    Obviously he's still so young to get really excited but I will encourage his progress to the fullest. I have coaches, refs, parents and random onlookers asking about what I do with him every time we play. My answer is always: nothing yet. He watches soccer with me on TV and he even plays FIFA on PS4. He says he wants to be like Messi.

    My next step is finding something more competitive. He's supposed to stay in U6 through the end of 2017 but that simply won't work. Any recommendations? Charlotte has some good academies but the two main ones don't seem to start until U9/U10. When does travel soccer typically start?
     
    R. Carrillo repped this.
  18. #343 feyenoordsoccerfan, Mar 18, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 18, 2016
    From the USA-Feyenoord connection:
    http://www.feyenoord.com/feyenoord-...nd-feyenoord-partnership-hits-six-month-mark-

    International
    Monday 18-01-16 12:36
    St. Louis Scott Gallagher and Feyenoord Partnership Hits Six-Month Mark
    This January marks six months since St Louis Scott Gallagher (SLSG Illinois) and Feyenoord Rotterdam entered into a 2 year Master Educational Partnership. In an elaborate statement on its website, the American club has expressed its utmost satisfaction with the partnership, which, in a short time, 'has already delivered an enormous benefit to St. Louis Scott Gallagher Illinois and all of its’ members'. 'We are extremely happy to have waited until we found the right partner' says Blake Decker, Director of Football SLSG Illinois. ' We could not be happier with the progress made since this summer.' SLSG will bring two teams to the Feyenoord Academy again this March for a full European football experience.
     
  19. ncsoccerdad

    ncsoccerdad Member

    Apr 16, 2012
    Central NC
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Honestly, at his age I wouldn't even be thinking about finding more competitive environments yet. My sole focus would be cultivating his love of the game and making sure it stays fun. I would never even mention next season, wouldn't talk much about next month, for that matter. I would be staying firmly in the present, praising the heck out of him and trying to ensure that he's enjoying his soccer.

    Down the road, there are two options for you in Charlotte (I'm relatively familiar, since I'm up near Greensboro) - the Colorado Rapids affiliate, or the USDA. There's a ton of material on the pro/con of MLS vs. US Soccer academies. Google is your friend. Let him keep running roughshod in the rec league and don't think so much about the future right now. Rest assured, either of those academies will provide an adequate challenge for him, when he's ready.

    The only other thing I might mention is that Charlotte U has a really good soccer program, and I'm sure they have camps. He would probably enjoy that setting, getting to interact with the college players.
     
  20. dcole

    dcole Member+

    May 27, 2005
    For starters, I realize I'm replying to an old post, but I just read it so it's new to me. I watched some earlier clips of Nick years ago. He has super ball skills, obviously. I love how he juggles with his ankles locked, using the sweet spot on his instep. Lots of jugglers juggle with their foot flexed and basically just spin the ball backwards with their toes. This method of juggling is fine if you just want to get a lot of juggles, but it really doesn't help you become better at soccer because you don't manipulate the ball that way when playing an actual soccer game. It's crap form for anything other than getting a high score. Nick's juggling style is far more translatable to actual soccer. Bravo.

    Some questions about Nick. Has he ever played any other sports? Can he, for example, stand 15 yards from a partner and throw a tennis ball back and forth, catching and throwing with both hands? Can he dribble a basketball? Can he swim all four strokes? Can he throw and catch a football? How about a frisbee? Ever used a lacrosse stick? Played ice, field or street hockey? Ever caught a baseball with a baseball glove? Ever play tennis, racquetball, table tennis? Ever go outside and just make up a brand new game using a ball with friends or siblings?

    I ask these questions because I believe that soccer specialization before the teenage years does more harm than good. I'd take a kid under the age of 13 with half of Nick's soccer skill who can do all the other things I listed above, before I'd take a kid with Nick's soccer skill who can't do many/any of those other things. Not trying to judge you, just giving a different perspective. In fact, as far as I know, maybe Nick is a well rounded, multi-sport athlete. For the record, I'm a youth soccer coach with three boys under the age of 13 who all play soccer, and I post on soccer Internet message boards, so I'm clearly not anti-soccer in any way!
     
  21. PTS21

    PTS21 Member

    Sep 1, 2005
    Charlotte, NC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thanks and I definitely see your point. I want him to love the game (which he REALLY does) but I also want him to not get bored. As the season went on, there were times he got bored because it was too easy. I hope to find that right balance for this young of an age.

    Thankfully Charlotte has so many great options of soccer teams, academies and camps and they seem to be expanding by the day including a huge announcement coming from FC Barcelona and the full-time academy they are launching here. First of its kind.

    On another note, we just won our town league yesterday and have county playoffs against the winners from all the other towns in our area. Some of my soccer friends that have coached for much longer than I have say it's crazy that we keep score and have playoffs but I'm come to disagree as long as the coaches don't focus on results. For competitive kids like my son, keeping score is a must (and he would do it even if we didn't) but I have to say a handful of my other players improved tremendously because of the confidence they got from winning. One kid in particular was afraid to kick the ball when the season started. He cried when we suffered our only loss and by the end of the season he was involved all over the field.
     
  22. BP9175

    BP9175 Member

    Aug 2, 2011
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Thanks for compliments!! Yes, My Nicki has and does play other sports but of course, he plays mainly soccer. He has played basketball, flag football recreationally but not alot. And he likes to enter 1 mile and 5K races. He also likes to enter jump roping competitions at school and he can do over 2,500 without stopping.

    But im glad you asked that question because my wife and I have been struggling with the idea of just keeping him in soccer, 100% now. But i have been reading up and i have decided that keeping him in different sports until 14 is a good idea. He wants to get some basic boxing classes and I was against it but I think im going to take him up on it.
     
  23. ncsoccerdad

    ncsoccerdad Member

    Apr 16, 2012
    Central NC
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Just curious...why?
     
  24. dcole

    dcole Member+

    May 27, 2005
    Lots of reasons, actually. My two primary concerns are repetitive use injuries and burnout, both of which are much higher in a single sport athlete than in a multisport athlete. But I also think that general athleticism is critical for a soccer player, and that limiting yourself to soccer limits your general athleticism. Playing multiple sports improves your strength, balance and general coordination more than playing soccer alone. Also, playing multiple ball sports, like basketball, hockey or lacrosse, improves and expands your field and special awareness, peripheral vision and defensive techniques and footwork. I could go on...
     
    StrikerMom, ncsoccerdad and mwulf67 repped this.
  25. ncsoccerdad

    ncsoccerdad Member

    Apr 16, 2012
    Central NC
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    I agree with every word. I would only add that "involved" in other sports can happen in many forms. My son plays basketball several times per week, but he's not on a basketball team. He plays with kids in the neighborhood, with his brother, at school recess, etc. Just because a kid isn't on a roster somewhere doesn't mean he doesn't get plenty of exposure to other sports.
     
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