Ian Harkes at Dundee United

Discussion in 'Yanks Abroad' started by Brotheryoungbuck, Dec 26, 2016.

  1. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not quite sure I read it that way. If John Harkes were a UK citizen when Ian was born OR had "indefinite leave to remain," then Ian would be eligible for UK citizenship. I don't see any differentiation between descent or naturalization in the rules.

    When you do not need to apply
    You’re automatically a British citizen if you were both:

    • born in the UK on or after 1 January 1983
    • born when one of your parents was a British citizen or ‘settled’ in the UK
    Your parent was settled in the UK if they had one of the following:

    • indefinite leave to remain in the UK
    • indefinite leave to enter the UK
    • a permanent residence document (if they’re an EU citizen)
    You can apply for a UK passport instead, or ask for a letter confirming your citizenship.

    I looked through the British rules and John Harkes, born in the US in 1967, with a father (and I think mother) who emigrated from Scotland, should have been a UK citizen automatically. If that's the case, he should have been able to pass on citizenship to Ian right away. It's possible they didn't bother to do the paperwork, but seems pretty straightforward.
     
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  2. Placid Casual

    Placid Casual Member+

    Apr 2, 2004
    Bentley's Roof
    Hmm. I see your point. I have been working on passport applications so got my info slightly twisted have had had descent stuck in my head.

    Maybe it depends on whether John Harkes played in the UK on a British passport or a Work Permit. Splitting hairs I know but caseworkers love doing that.

    If it was a work permit, then he wouldn't have had indefinite leave to remain by the time Ian was born. The Home Office (whatever it is called this week) could argue that as his father was in the country on a work permit that is what is needed.


    As you said, it seems straightforward but it only takes 6 weeks or so to get a passport so I am not sure why they haven't done it before. There has to be more to it.

    As was said earlier. Ian Harkes has gone from having a British passport in January of 2017 to pursuing one.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-trophy-winner-ian-harkes/?noredirect=on&utm_
     
  3. ChuckMe92

    ChuckMe92 Member+

    Jun 23, 2016
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  4. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    Catching up on recent tweets from Goff ...

    https://twitter.com/SoccerInsider

    "Three Scottish clubs {Dundee + 2 others} have taken a liking to former D.C. United homegrown MF Ian Harkes. MLS interest as well. D.C. United did not renew his contract but maintains league rights. Unclear where he will land."

    "Family lineage on father's side is Scottish. He was born in England and has a UK passport."
     
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  5. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Can't validate the source, but take it for what it is:

     
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  6. Balerion

    Balerion Member+

    Aug 5, 2006
    Roslindale, MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Huge move if it were the early-mid 1980s.
     
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  7. UnitedBorn

    UnitedBorn Member+

    Dec 7, 2015
    301
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Goff mentioned it too so that’s validation

     
  8. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    So not Academical, nor Theoretical, but still not a Dundeel?
     
  9. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
     
  10. PhillyFury

    PhillyFury Member

    Slavia Prague
    United States
    Jan 1, 2004
    Prague, Czech Republic
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #36 PhillyFury, Jan 12, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
    Dumb question, but how did he do in DC? Obviously not that well if they didn't offer a new deal, but was he that bad or a victim of circumstances, numbers?
     
  11. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    He was alright in 2017, but was replaced and surpassed by Durkin, Canouse, and Moreno throughout late 2017 and 2018. He's not a bad player; he just never did enough to be irreplaceable.

    I would expect him to do very well in the Scottish second tier, and if Dundee United wins promotion, I'd expect him to do pretty well in the top flight as well
     
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  12. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  13. Dave Marino-Nachison

    Jun 9, 1999
    I'm happy for him. Still, part of me wishes, for thread title purposes if no other reason, that he'd instead signed with the Scottish third-division club based in Methil, and was immediately given the armband. This is a good joke.
     
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  14. olephill2

    olephill2 Member+

    Oct 6, 2006
    Club:
    Watford FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd like to think Harkes could have landed somewhere higher than the Scottish second divison. I thought he was pretty solid his first year in MLS in 2017, but he was boxed out of DC's rotation in 2018 as @ArsenalMetro pointed out. That said, Dundee United is pushing for promotion, so maybe he will end up in the Scottish Premiership next year, which seems like a good level for him.

    Does anyone have a good handle on MLS rules as it pertains to Harkes? I read above that DC still owns his rights despite declining his contract. What would have needed to happen for another MLS club to pick him up?
     
  15. Dr.Phil

    Dr.Phil Member+

    Jan 18, 2004
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Even though Ian declined DC's offer and left on a free transfer MLS rules state that DC hold his player rights becuase they offerred the contract.

    Another mls team would have to trade for his rights in order to sign him.

    https://www.si.com/planet-futbol/20...es-acquisitions-flowchart-how-to-sign-players
     
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  16. olephill2

    olephill2 Member+

    Oct 6, 2006
    Club:
    Watford FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thanks! This is super helpful (and also, these rules are a bit jacked, but I won't take this thread off topic sharing my thoughts :))
     
  17. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    On the bench (or as it appears they say it in Scotland - ON THE BENCH):

     
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  18. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Harkes comes on around the 70th minute and...

     
  19. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    A couple of nice bits from the Dundee summary:

    https://www.dundeeunitedfc.co.uk/news/5908/Montrose-0-United-4.html

    "In 70 minutes, new signing Ian Harkes came on for Cammy Smith. The American was unlucky to see one of his first touches in a United shirt go over the bar, with his attempted volley rising above the Montrose goal.

    ....

    The icing on the cake came in injury time when debutant Harkes scored the fourth goal for United. Set up by McMullan, Harkes's left foot shot from close range capped off a debut to remember."
     
  20. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  21. Higher Learning

    Jul 1, 2009
    San Jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Isn't it time to move this to regular YA forum?
     
  22. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nope. Scottish 2nd tier gets no love.
     
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  23. olephill2

    olephill2 Member+

    Oct 6, 2006
    Club:
    Watford FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here are the full highlights from the match (the commentary is in a foreign language ;) but you can see all the goals here: (Harkes' goal sequence begins at the 5:37 mark).

    On a related note, how long until Ian starts to develop a Scottamerican accent? My money is on two years.
     
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  24. Scotty

    Scotty Member+

    Dec 15, 1999
    Toscana
    Funny, because his dad actually developed an English accent during his years in the UK.

    Not sure how many posters here can still recall, but in the interviews John Harkes was giving during the 1994 World Cup his accent was at least as strong as the one Friedel picked up a few years later.
     
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