HS soccer is a relative unknown to me. I have a 9th grade son in HS who plays football, may run track, hasn’t played soccer since he was 6 and doesn’t care for the sport. I have an 8th grade daughter who will be in HS next year, doesn’t play soccer, and may be done with her athletic career. Then my younger children all play soccer. The one doing the most is like four years away. So, in effect, I’m asking you about something that is well into my future and may not come to pass. I guess I just like being prepared! J Also, it’s possible I’ll find a lot in the “A dumb (and loaded) question…” thread that I just started going through. All of these may be very school/coach/region/state specific, so feel free to answer however it works where you are: 1) How important or necessary is playing club/select/soccer to making a HS team? My oldest soccer player is on a club/select team currently, but it is her first season and the team itself is on the lower end of the pay scale. Not being “woe is me,” but not entirely convinced we could afford the more established clubs in our metro area provided she could even make them. 2) What is the typical roster size (we’ll assume there is a Varsity and JV team)? Would having extra bodies, even with the understanding that they are more like scout team and no play guarantee help? I do feel a little bad for other sports when I hear an AD talk about how they try to limit cuts, but that they will never cut for football. 3) How much practice time is typically devoted to soccer in HS? What I have to compare it to is football, and what a disparity at pretty much every level. I bet my son practiced more his first time playing football in 5th grade than any of my soccer players at any year. In 9th grade, his football team practiced @ 5 times / week for 2 to 3 hours a practice. I’m not even saying that’s a lot for a typical football team, but it’s a lot more than my other kids have seen in any sport. 4) Can a player get noticed / scouted by colleges through being a HS player alone? Or is it going to be clubs that get interest or perhaps more specific parental involvement in getting a name out there? I’m sure I have more, but I rambled a bit here. I will say, I like kids having an opportunity to play in HS. I understand that most sports make cuts, though I tend to not like it as much prior to the varsity level. Thanks as always!
Somewhat important to critical depending on situation….critical if the sport is uber competitive in your area/at your school and cuts will be made….if not so much, then merely somewhat important….my son (freshmen) plays at HS where cuts are not yet needed. As a result, we still have a lot of non-club kids who play…however, it is fairly easy to pick the club kids out from the rec kids talent wise…. if just making the team is all you want, no big deal, but if you want make varsity before your senior year, you need some club experience…. I believe state HS association limit/dictate the number of roster spots per sport/team….so it’s not necessarily that they want to cut, it’s that they have do so to be in compliance…however, if you only have a limited number of coaches, there are only so many kids you can reasonable deal with….I believe the roster size in my state is 25….25 Varsity, 25 JV…with some kids playing both….some schools are large enough to have Freshmen team, we are not. I am sure it varies once again…for me, I’ve been a little disappointed with the amount of practice time…although not universal, it is often said, HS is not about development, it’s about winning… development is what you work on during the off-season/club season… Unlikely, scouts don’t typically make it to HS games…college soccer, even at the lowest levels, have a mountain of talent to choose from (for various reasons); no reason to beat the bushes checking out HS-only talent…
Thanks for your reply! It is very insightful. A couple follow-up: 1) How much practice would you like to see? How many days or hours per practice? 2) I get the winning component to an extent, but why is time spent developing skills seen as a negative? Not fair for me to always compare it to football, but it seems like that approach is always that we have to work harder/longer in practice than the other guy in order to beat them. 3) With the amount of the no-HS talent that colleges have to choose from, how come the game is so lamented and considered poor at that level? Thanks again!
A lot it has to with the schedule…in season, it is fairly typical to be playing 2-3 games a week…we usually have games Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday, now and again…obviously, on games days, you don’t practice….I think that situation is somewhat the norm in HS soccer across the board, lots of games compressed into a rather short season….just not a lot of time left for practice even if you wanted to… I would love to see a) a slightly longer season and/or b) just 1 game a week, at least for the first few weeks anyway…. Not really seen as a negative, but as point out above, there just isn’t a lot of time to devote to developing skills…and whereas the line is blurred, the hard work they put in is more about playing as a team, as opposed to getting better as an individual…sure, kids get better or gain more experience playing HS soccer, but it’s almost incidental. In large part, the more skill you bring in, the more you will get out of HS soccer. The average unskilled/lower skilled kid is not going to improve by leaps and bounds simply playing HS soccer imho…. You have to understand the context of those complaints. Most come for people focused or interested in the US Men team and/or developing a strong pro league. And from that prospective, playing college soccer is a dead end. Nobody (or very, very few) who play college go on to the pros and/or the national team. Developmentally its dead end; it has similar season and scheduling challenges as HS…and by that age, you really do need to be playing year around if you want to improve to a pro or national level…. The irony, of course, is the college ranks are chalk full of kids who came thought the DA system…a system that is suppose feed/support the national team…so colleges get good talent coming in, but the system just isn’t (yet) designed to improve much on that talent… With all that said, I am a big supporter of HS and college soccer…I really do think it’s the long term answer to increasing soccer’s popularity in this country…
Thanks! I didn't realize the schedule got so congested, but it is unfortunate that it really eats into the practice potential. I am with you that I hope the HS and College games become more popular/relevant. Our HS soccer is in the spring so it doesn't have to compete directly with football, volleyball, or basketball to name a few. I also think there is a lot of school pride potential. I am new to the "club scene," but I don't get that same feeling. It seems more like a mercenary approach - what club could I make, what club is most affordable, etc. Not to shortchange club, but just not the same.
Husker- I have been away from Omaha for quite a while but still get back occasionally and may have a little insight. I think a lot of the answers will depend on what high school you are at. I would say in the Millard/Elkhorn area you will probably be looking at cuts and teams composed of mostly club players; the same with Prep or Marion and most likely some of the OPS schools. On the other hand many of the OPS schools will have fewer club kids based on economics and demographics.
Thanks! I know that Marian is tough and if that worked and we could handle the cost, I know athletics aren't a guarantee. The likely route for my soccer playing daughters would be Roncalli (son goes there now) or Omaha Mercy.
I am looking to send my son abroad to Europe (maybe Spain because he is learning Spanish also) can anyone recommend a High School with a soccer academy? He is 15 years old, a good player but he wants a different experience and to send him abroad for a year and experience soccer in Europe I think would be an incredible experience for him but I would like to know if anyone has knowledge or experience with this? Sorry if this is not the thread for this!
If your kid is a great athlete, it's not that important to play club since speed and athleticism shine through in HS. For the average athlete on a HS team who doesn't play club (or only sparingly), it will be glaringly obvious the kid needs more touches on the ball and doesn't understand the game. For the level you indicated, the speed of the game will make your kid look ineffective. That's the biggest difference as you progress up the club continuum: a kid that plays at a lower level will just be jogging back-and-forth as others are in the right spot, playing the ball. Here in CO, it is between 16-22 for each team: JV & V. The top 2-3 on JV often occasionally play, or at least dress for V. Some HS teams have a "C" team or "Freshman" league but many don't. Whether or not your HS will limit cuts depends on whether they can fill a full roster with solid players for that level or not. My boy's & girl's seasons have gone extremely fast. There is a pre-season summer for boys & winter for girls for a month or two but nothing can be mandatory. Then there is a camp and tryouts over 2-weeks and they are straight into the season after one week and one scrimmage. Practices are every day but only for 1-1/2 hours at the most. 2-3 games every week and then the season ends after 1-1/2 months total. The extremely important post-season State tournament is over 2-weeks and it is one-loss-and-out. It is possible but not very likely. Even getting noticed in DA is difficult so I wouldn't expect much from playing HS during prime recruiting time: SO & JR years.
Athleticism certainly helps…but big, fast, strong, whatever, yet still rather unskilled/under-developed, not to mention, soccer dumb will be equally glaringly obvious and ineffective…those kids look great before kickoff, but 5 minutes in you know they aren’t going to do much or hurt you… But agree, speed of play is the great divide between high level club kids and the lower, more casual, levels…even if you know proper technique and/or tactics, is quite another thing to execute them at a pace 2 or 3 times faster than your used to….
In my (limited experience) scouts NEVER go to HS games unless they're there for some unrelated reason. So technically a player could get noticed but it's not even remotely the norm or expectation. Good luck tho!
I had two players get noticed and get a partial scholarships because a scout was in attendance to look at a player from the home team.
Ohh and I almost forgot. I ran into a scout watching the girls team at the school I coach boys at just a few days ago. It was a playoff game. He saw a couple of freshman girls that he saw possibilities with. Otherwise he was unimpressed.
As with most things, the answer is “it depends”. The feedback we got from D1 college coaches ( primarily ACC and Big East) was that they never attend HS games for scouting or recruiting. They didn’t want HS highlights, didn’t ask about HS accolades and didn’t care if the HS team was undefeated, winless or playing a powerhouse competitor. This might depend on the club too...if the club is big, the coach/ DOC are known and routinely put players into college programs then that may reduce the need for HS interaction. I personally know D3 coaches who do attend nearby HS games for scouting. In some areas HS and college coaches are well connected to clubs and the lines can get blurry if the HS coach also coaches at a club. Recruiting profiles request HS coach info as that may be helpful in the application and acceptance process. We found the college interaction was with club coaches, despite the HS team and coach being well respected. There were due diligence calls to the HS coach before offers were made but the discussion was about academics and personal reference. Results will vary but I wouldn’t put faith in HS being the litmus test or conduit...it could happen but it isn’t a common outcome.
A lot depends on the area as well. There is a lot of poor HS soccer and a lot of great HS soccer in the states so a lot of that will depend on your area. For the most part, Division 1 coaches will recruit out of the academy system with the second wave being high level club. In my area there a lot of Division 2 and 3 coaches that come to HS games towards the end of the year and will continue to follow them into their club seasons in the Spring. Most of the HS coaches we play against played at a D2 or D3 level so the connections are there if a player stands out (either on your team or playing against them). There are so many different styles in the college/HS game so a great HS player may struggle in club and a great club player may struggle in HS depending on the system. Unfortunately with 2-3 games a week and 18-22 over a 60 day period there isn't much time to "develop" players at the HS level. Without a good club system a HS coach can only do so much.
Watching this start to play out, I'm afraid, with my own youngest son, who will be a ninth-grader in the fall. For his (fairly strong) club team, he seldom leaves the field, plays well technically with his head up, does a good job spraying passes, gets a few goals and assists from his fullback position, and doesn't give up much when defending. He also strikes a decent dead ball. He's done well at a couple of higher-level summer camps, too, fitting in nicely in teams that included, at the top end, pretty strong players. In HS summer practices so far, he says he appears to be glued to the JV bench, playing behind some kids who are either on lower-level teams in his club or don't play club at all. I'll be curious to see what the games look like this fall (assuming he makes the team -- if you're glued to the JV bench, I'm guessing the possibility he'll be among the cuts is there). He's tall and not slow, but his game just isn't all hard running and direct balls toward the other team's goal, both of which seem to be favored by the HS coaches.
I feel your pain…I’ll been living this for the last couple of years…I have a fairly strong 16 year club player who hasn’t got any love from his HS coach…not so much about being on JV bench, but more not getting promoted to V…going into his junior year, and we are deeply worried/concerned he won’t even make it this year…being it all comes down to single person’s opinion (and play style), it’s a long 4 years if you get on the wrong end of that opinion… Good luck and hope thing work out for your son....
Thanks, Wulf. And same to you. We've talked a bit before and, knowing your son's club background, it would blow my mind if a HS roster didn't have a place for him.
It's definitely a unique type of play at the HS level and as both a club and HS coach my systems of play are very different. I wouldn't look too much into summer practices as I have a standard format of 7v7 with Underclassmen on one field and Upperclassmen on the other regardless of ability. The incoming Freshman are definitely more comfortable playing with their "friends" and gives them a few practices to get acclimated before making the jump for tryouts where it will be sorted out by ability. At club if a player doesn't "fit" the system I can try and find someone at next year's tryouts who will fit in better tactically. In the end, most of what I am judged on is based on how many kids are developing the right skills to advance to the next team or potentially make a DA team. I can throw us in challenging tournaments, go 0-3 for the weekend, and still feel pretty good about how we played and parents will notice that. Most teams we see will play a 4-2-3-1 and won't press much allowing us to build so players can get comfortable moving the ball around (although the Liverpool movement is changing that). It is a much more technical game. With HS I only have what is in the school. With only 2-3 months with the team, 20 games, and pressure from an Athletic Director/Community/School to win as many games as possible my style definitely changes and I have to fit a system to players I have. The teams we play against are like 95% HS teams with a high press, high tempo, direct game. If I don't win enough, I lose my job. An undersized kid or slower kid with potential will absolutely get a spot on my 18 for club because I will have 10 months and 50+ practices with them to get that potential out. At the HS level I'd leave that kid on JV to get 16-18 games rather than sit on the bench at Varsity (maybe play 6-8 games) because he won't be ready in 60 days with only 15-20 practices as compared to 10 months (Again there's not much development in HS because of the 3 games/week). Add in the politics of HS athletics (Ex: dad is councilman, mom is on the Board of Education, Honors kid who you have in class all day, Awful student who you have in class all day) and it's a giant mess and I'm usually carrying 23+ on Varsity.
I appreciate this response and the insight -- it matches what I'm hearing and seeing so far (though, granted, I'm not seeing much -- no way I'd go watch practices at this level). My son's also learning a tough lesson about the politics you mention. When he does get on the field, older players largely don't pass to him and most of the other younger guys. He claims they will, however, quite willingly pass to another kid his age (club teammate) whose older sister is pretty popular. That player is also one of the maybe three freshmen who appear to already be getting varsity time. That's a level of complication I have no advice for. "Yeah, son, that stinks, and you don't have a sister." I just hope he makes the team and gets through this first year, and that the requirement that he play direct, kick-and-run soccer to get on the field doesn't wreck his game.
It won't wreck his game and the competitiveness of playing in front of 100s of people in big games are an experience you don't get club. When you win a big club game, no one really cares. When you beat your school rival under the lights, everyone in school gets it. It's a long 4 years and I've seen players blossom and become great players (especially those who come in at 4'10 and 90 lbs). One underrated thing of HS is that you do play soccer 6x a week so you will get better and see different tactics and styles of play. Only thing he can do is keep working hard, listen to his coaches, and his HS experience will be positive. Also remember that a lot of the decision are looked at long term (15 min on Varsity vs 70 on JV). The 23 on Varsity are never the top 23 in the program. Unlike 15-20 years ago, most HS coaches have played at the college level so they do know the game more. If there was less games I think you would see the quality of coaching come out and people would realize that the HS game does have a place in development.
In the end my '05 made his high school's JV roster, but I wouldn't say at this point it's all happy. A few juniors he knows were offered but declined JV spots while three freshmen who are also my son's club teammates have varsity spots I doubt they're physically ready for. My son's baffled by that (and likely a bit jealous -- a couple of those club teammates would be below him on the club depth chart). He's seen plenty of club teammates demoted the past few years, some of them friends, and generally always felt like it happened for a reason -- someone else was just better. This doesn't look like that. What those three freshman players all have is speed. My impression is that, over the summer and during the tryouts, the HS coaches used speed as a kind of shorthand for skill, ability, any sort of tactical sense, vision, how to move off the ball, play defense, ... I don't know if that's just what HS soccer is and they're being realistic (I get that this isn't club soccer, they have to incorporate kids who don't play a lot, ...), or if it's a sign they might not know the game. I'm pessimistically leaning toward the latter. From what I've heard from other parents, the soccer JV and varsity will play will be pretty old fashioned, in particular insisting that the defenders not cross the halfway line, not even the fullbacks. I admit I'm also bothered because I'm friends with the fathers of two of the older players who declined JV spots, and a third is a friend of my older son. I'm bracing myself for a fall of dour, kick-and-run soccer, and hoping to be proven wrong.