Howard/Donovan: Everton - Chelsea / 02.10.10 / 3pm ET

Discussion in 'Yanks Abroad Gameday' started by Crimen y Castigo, Feb 8, 2010.

  1. SoccerKowboy

    SoccerKowboy BigSoccer Supporter

    Jul 13, 2007
    Virginia, USA
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yup. The ebb and flow of the game was interesting. After Donovan's play for large chunks of the first half, Chelsea switched its tactics and started playing Cole back. As a result, most of their forward runs were through the center, or on the other side of the pitch, so naturally Baines and Bily had more space to operate. Hence Donovan got less service, as Everton ran their offense through the left. I think Baines really caused Chelsea problems in the second half, he looked quite good.
     
  2. Cris 09

    Cris 09 Trololololo

    Nov 30, 2004
    Westfalenstadion
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    You do realize that even though A Cole has been great at attacking, his job is primnarliy to defend, right? Once again, Donovan had a better match than Cole, no one argues that - but "screwing him into the ground" was a bit much. All of Chelsea looked lost, especially the midfirled. I would not say Everton screwed Chelsea to the ground despite having a better day than they did.

    Anyway, I'm done, before SoccerKowboy here starts handing out neg reps again for disagreeing.

    See ya.
     
  3. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    screwing a team to the ground implies a 6-0 shellacking.
    But, again, Donovan played well. He's a very good player. I don't doubt that at all.

    On the notion that the richer clubs/leagues don't have better players, is the assumption that players don't seek out better lives, or that richer clubs, with their scouts and experience, can't identify talent?
    I've yet to have a conversation with an MLS official where they maintain they've reached the overall level of talent some folks here want to give them credit for.
    I think one huge mistake folks make is that they look at smaller teams (take Reading in the prem a couple years ago) play huge clubs, say Manu, and they see the negative tactics and say Reading is a boring team.
    And, against ManU, they are. But watch those same small clubs against clubs with player budgets the size of MLS sides, and their play looks entirely different, open, flowing, etc.
    the batton down mentality of smaller prem clubs is the result of the enormous talent so many teams have in the league. it's a tactic that we've all seen work, lesser can beat greater, with a bounce or two.
    But it's a mistake to judge the lesser teams based on how they tactically approach great sides.
     
  4. StillKickin

    StillKickin Member+

    Dec 17, 2002
    Texas
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Donovan totally outplayed him, and that's a fact. Everyone saw it and everyone is saying it. From the English press to the fans down to the players and coaches. (that's everton players and coaches)

    Donovan's play took away one of the main reasons they call Ashley Cole the "best left back in the world" = namely, his play going foward. Landon's attacking presence and his own excellent defense took away Cole's ability to get forward much, while he himself (Landon) was a lively threat on the night.

    Now, some may not classify that as screwing him into the ground. But Donovan did completely outplay Ashley Cole.
     
  5. Eliezar

    Eliezar Member+

    Jan 27, 2002
    Houston
    Club:
    12 de Octubre
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Some of the clubs in England, especially in the CC, play with such insane quickness and pace that you know that it takes both a certain type of player and a lot of skill to pull it off. It often seems like pinball or even kickball to me, but it is played with a ton of skill.

    I'm really not sure where MLS teams would stack up in the English pyramid, but I always had the feeling that the truely great MLS teams (DC dynasty, Houston, perhaps Chicago 98-2000, etc) would be teams that would bounce between the CC and the PL and that most MLS teams would be lower half CC teams threatened with relegation.

    However, Donovan did look strong against Ashley Cole. I've seen players like Donovan and McBride go over to England and actually look better in the EPL (actually Simon freaking Elliott too) than they did in MLS. (although to be fair, Donovan has turned it on in MLS lately too, but he's had seasons where he was good, but not GREAT in MLS)
     
  6. highlander

    highlander Member

    Nov 9, 2002
    Springfield, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think we need to divorce ourselves from the need to over simplify here. Don't get me wrong - to me, this was the best game that I have seen Landon Donovan play. He deserves all of the props that he has gotten. I just think that a lot of his contributions came against players that were not Ashley Cole. He was not playing Ashley Cole, he was playing Chelsea. He caused problems for Chelsea all day. Chelsea did not come up with a solution for him. To be honest, I didn't see him beat Ashley Cole that many times. What he did do was put himself in situations where he didn't have to beat Ashley Cole which, given Cole's physical qualities, is pretty darned smart. To me, that it is a much higher compliment to pay a player than to say he is better one on one against this one guy. Donovan solved their defense. That is an ability with much greater teeth, at least in my eyes.

    I don't value Donovan beating individuals one on one as much as I value him figuring out how to beat great teams. I thought he did the latter against Chelsea, particularly acting as a provider. Great game!
     
  7. Cris 09

    Cris 09 Trololololo

    Nov 30, 2004
    Westfalenstadion
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Thank you!
     
  8. SoccerKowboy

    SoccerKowboy BigSoccer Supporter

    Jul 13, 2007
    Virginia, USA
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As the right-mid, Donovan was matched up against Cole at left-back. Cole's assignment was to provide width and offense, while shutting down Donovan. Donovan's assignment was to provide Neville with cover on Cole, while sparking the attack on the right side. Donovan prevented Cole from doing things on the offensive end, while Cole did nothing to prevent Donovan from creating danger in several instances. Cole was ineffective, Donovan provided an assist and earned a penalty.

    If you don't think Donovan outplayed Cole, you have a very, um, "unique" definition of outplayed.
     
  9. Cris 09

    Cris 09 Trololololo

    Nov 30, 2004
    Westfalenstadion
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Donavan's assist came from a corner and when he earned the penalty I believe it was Carvalho that nailed him - Cole was not involved in either of those plays.
     
  10. SoccerKowboy

    SoccerKowboy BigSoccer Supporter

    Jul 13, 2007
    Virginia, USA
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ok, so suppose Cole did the same thing to Distin. Are you saying Donovan wouldn't be blamed for not providing defensive help on his assignment?

    And the reason I bring up the assist is to point out that Donovan had a positive contribution, while Cole did not.
     
  11. Cris 09

    Cris 09 Trololololo

    Nov 30, 2004
    Westfalenstadion
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Cole is a defender and while his contributions to the attack are a bonus that is not his job. So it is a bit hard to compare stats that lead to goals between an attacking mid/winger and a defender/FB.

    As far as blaming him for not covering his defensive duties; when he goes up, there are still two CB left to defend. I blame Carves and Terry a hell of a lot more than Cole for that one.

    Donovan had a great game, and yes, a better one than Cole, but let's try to keep things in persepctive here.
     
  12. SoccerKowboy

    SoccerKowboy BigSoccer Supporter

    Jul 13, 2007
    Virginia, USA
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Um...
     
  13. irish56

    irish56 Member+

    Oct 30, 2006
    indy
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  14. highlander

    highlander Member

    Nov 9, 2002
    Springfield, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is nothing personal, but soccer is not a compartmentalized sport (like American team sports are, to a larger degree). Soccer, because of it's rules, is much more integrated. I think that compartmentalizing the game in the way that you are doing is handicaping yourself in your ability to understand what is happening on the field.

    To break soccer down into a series of 1vs1 battles was proven futile by countless teams when they played Hungary in the early fifties. Hungary, the inventors of combination play, went on a four year winning streak during which they beat the living daylights out of any team that they played. It wasn't until other teams began to also integrate the way they looked at the game that they were able to compete with the Hungarians. If you ever get a chance to see a film of that old Hungarian team, I recommend that you take it. The play is almost comical - with Hungarian players getting the ball in front of the goal with no player around them for 5 -10 yards - constantly - every game!

    That was almost 60 years ago. Let's not set American soccer back to the post World War II era by insisting on a revival of the compartmentalization of the game.

    Look - one of the big differences between Donovan now and Donovan in his previous European stints, is that he has played enough hours where he is able to integrate his thinking at that speed of play. Even at Bayern Munich last year, he was not able to integrate his thinking quickly enough and he ended up passing off safely too much. It is because he does not look at his job as beating Ashley Cole that he is so effective.
     
  15. Bigrose30

    Bigrose30 Member+

    Sep 11, 2004
    Jersey City, NJ
    I'm pretty sure that Michael Bradley recently described the German approach to the game as focusing on winning 1-v-1 duels on the field with your counterpart.
     
  16. highlander

    highlander Member

    Nov 9, 2002
    Springfield, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This subject feels like a thread hijacking. I am dropping it.
     
  17. irish56

    irish56 Member+

    Oct 30, 2006
    indy
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Any confirmation that Donovan will be included on the Europa roster? Tuesday match against Sporting Libson would be more interest with LD.
     
  18. Geneva

    Geneva LA for Life

    Feb 5, 2003
    Southern Cal
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He was added to the roster. Will he play? I'd guess probably.
     
  19. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    i would think in Everton's position, they can go all out in europa. The downside, they've got a thin roster. but they're safe, not a good bet to qualify through league, so go for the win in that thing. they're playing well enough to make more noise, i'd think.
     
  20. SoccerKowboy

    SoccerKowboy BigSoccer Supporter

    Jul 13, 2007
    Virginia, USA
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Given the week of rest, I'd guess he'll start.
     
  21. SAMBA

    SAMBA Member

    Sep 3, 2004
    New Jersey
    Landon was asked to do a job against Ashley Cole.
    The question the manager asked Landon before the game was "can you pose Ashley Cole a problem?" revealed Neville.

    I think its the other way around, actually.
    It is because he focused on shutting down Ashley Cole that he became effective in other areas of the game.
     
  22. StillKickin

    StillKickin Member+

    Dec 17, 2002
    Texas
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm talking about the whole of the game, not necessarily one on one. And Donovan, as I said, nullified Cole going forward while still being a threat himself. And I'm not the only one saying it - everyone in England is saying it, only they used a lot more descriptive words.
     
  23. StillKickin

    StillKickin Member+

    Dec 17, 2002
    Texas
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We are keeping it in perspective here.

    Donovan outplayed Cole in each of their respective duties.

    Something you absolutely refuse to accept - which doesn't surprise me.

    **I see we have moved on. I, also, will now move on.

    Next up: Sporting Lisbon.
     
  24. wsmaugham

    wsmaugham Member

    Apr 3, 2002
    Chicago
    I don't think Cris is saying that. He's just objects to some of the more hyperbolic word choices, particularly "screwing into the ground", which I'd agree is an exaggeration. To be fair, I don't think he would have brought it up if there wasn't a tendency on the part of some to get a little overexcited when one of our boys has a great game. He can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he'd agree, and has said as much, that Donovan had a great game.

    And you know I'm a big Donovan fan SK, so if anything I'm biased in the player's favor.
     
  25. thejuggernaut

    thejuggernaut Member

    Mar 25, 2007
    PA
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Still Kickin,

    How do you "Move on" by underhandedly slamming a respected poster in your last post. And then say some "let's go everton" bullsh*t!?

    The fact is no matter how you spin ONE MATCH your not going to convince anyone who watches the sport with an objective eye that Landon Donovan is better then Ashley Cole!!

    It's tough for anyone to into Goodison Park and play better then their counterpart, even if it's the best LB in the world... and if you don't think so name someone better!! It's a shame that these patriotic sunglasses that people wear are going to hide them from the fact that Ashley Cole was having a career season on a first place team in the best league in the world. But all my fellow compatriots will remember is the match that Landon Donovan won.

    Mindless.
     

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