How to save Scottish football

Discussion in 'Scotland' started by Pedro's greasy do, Mar 18, 2009.

  1. Gordon EF

    Gordon EF Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 15, 2004
    Edinburgh
    If McLeish's or the SPL's plans go ahead, we might as well give up on football in this country. Awful, awful ideas. I hope the club chairmen have more sense than the ********** who came up with these ideas.
     
  2. allegrabene

    allegrabene New Member

    Jul 11, 2009
    Alexandria, Va
    Club:
    Celtic FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  3. C-bus

    C-bus Member

    Aug 2, 2006
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm relatively new to European football so forgive me if this has already been discussed ad nauseum for years but...has there ever been discussion about a British Premier League where the best of the SPL and EPL could merge into a single league leaving the remaining Scottish and English teams in lower, more-competitive leagues?
     
  4. Gordon EF

    Gordon EF Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 15, 2004
    Edinburgh
    There's been discussion insofar as I've heard it mentioned and discussed by people but I don't think anyone in any real position of power in British football has discussed it seriously, in public.

    Every now and again, the old firm will make noises about moving to the English league but it will never happen because they don't need or want them.

    I think there would be very little appetite, in any part of Britain, for this to happen.
     
  5. Pedro's greasy do

    Nov 7, 2008
    London
    Club:
    Glasgow Rangers FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Scotland
    FFS! So they are just not listening to the fans.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/scot_prem/9336457.stm

    :mad:

    Scottish football is just so boring at the moment. I got bored watching the old firm game on Sunday. It was a dire spectacle. Making the league smaller is just going to make clubs even more defensive. I really don't see it being hard.

    16 or 18 teams. Summer football.
     
  6. frasermc

    frasermc Take your flunky and dangle

    Celtic
    Scotland
    Jul 28, 2006
    Newcastle-Upon-Tyne
    Club:
    Celtic FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Scotland
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/9359765.stm


    Scottish Premier League clubs have reached a broad agreement at a meeting at Hampden for a 10-team top league and a second tier of 12 teams.

    The SPL will now consult the Scottish Football Association and the Scottish Football League to progress the idea.

    A top tier of 14 teams had looked the most likely alternative to the 10-10 arrangement proposed by the SPL after some clubs had voiced reservations.



    So it looks like the SPL have spoken, and not bothered listening to the actual people that matter yet again. Supporters of SPL teams wanted a larger league to remove the stale format of playing teams up to four times a season but Neil Doncaster has all but admitted this is one of the main reasons why the clubs want the league size reduced.


    They want the cash that is brought in from playing Celtic and Rangers at home twice a season.

    I'd also imagine television revenue was given a huge amount of consideration and I could see the money reducing if Sky didn't have the chance to show the Glasgow derby four times a season.


    Relegation/Promotion play-offs look to be on the way back which I suppose will add an extra bit of excitement towards the end of the campaign.

    What would have also been beneficial, in an ideal world, would have been to adopt the Dutch format and have the 2nd to 5th place teams play off for the second CL place but, as we all know, we no longer have that luxury and it may be some time, if at all, before it returns.


    So back to the old familiarity breeds contempt nature of SPHell football for the forseeable future.

    Happy days...
     
  7. Gordon EF

    Gordon EF Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 15, 2004
    Edinburgh
    Looks like the top league's ********ed for the forseeable future. I suppose we'll have to wait and see what great ideas the guardians of the game have for the lower leagues.:(
     
  8. YankHibee

    YankHibee Member+

    Mar 28, 2005
    indianapolis
    I think they should switch to a pick-up game organization. Just have everyone who isn't too hung over show up each week, have the managers go back and forth picking a team, and have them all get paid based on player ratings.
     
  9. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So essentially instead of a 12 team SPL and a 10 team Division 1 they'll have a 10 team SPL and a 12 team Division 1? They're just going to relegate 2 extra teams from the SPL to Division 1 the season before the new format kicks in?

    Yeah, this will solve everything. :rolleyes:
     
  10. frasermc

    frasermc Take your flunky and dangle

    Celtic
    Scotland
    Jul 28, 2006
    Newcastle-Upon-Tyne
    Club:
    Celtic FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Scotland
    On the bright side, they are starting the season a little earlier, although Doncaster admitted that even this was financially related as there may be more demand for the SPL because other leagues wont have kicked a ball in anger yet.

    (Be thankful for small mercies etc etc ...)
     
  11. Kampfschwein

    Kampfschwein Member

    Jan 3, 2011
    Club:
    Hertha BSC Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Why don't the non-Firm clubs simply force a more balanced revenue scheme? Don't they have the votes to pull that off?

    Anyway, why is the Scottish game deteriorating? The Old Firm dominance didn't arrive yesterday, after all.

    BTW, does every SPL team have a youth academy? What youth development like in Scotland?
     
  12. Gordon EF

    Gordon EF Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 15, 2004
    Edinburgh
    If only two clubs veto a vote, it gets thrown out. Convenient eh?

    Dominance on this scale is a new thing. Other clubs were challenging for and winning the league in the 80s. In the early 90s, other clubs would challenge and regularly finish 2nd. Since then only Hearts have finished above an OF club and even then, only once.

    Bosman is probably the biggest factor but gate sharing obviously doesn't help the competitiveness.
     
  13. Kampfschwein

    Kampfschwein Member

    Jan 3, 2011
    Club:
    Hertha BSC Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Ah, no wonder Scottish football is a mess.

    Real sad. Been reading the "Ball is Round" and Scottish football's early contribution to the development of the sport is remarkable.

    What about your youth academies? Does every club have one?
     
  14. Gordon EF

    Gordon EF Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 15, 2004
    Edinburgh
    I'm not so sure whether every SPL club is required to have a youth academy.
     
  15. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In other words its an Old Firm world, the rest of us are just playing in it.
     
  16. Gordon EF

    Gordon EF Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 15, 2004
    Edinburgh
    To be fair, the original SPL clubs agreed to this pish. It's greed from all of them, hoping that they can get more money for themselves and all become big successful clubs. Which is a fantasy. Some clubs don't seem to realise that the more money the bigger clubs get, the bigger the gap between the OF and the rest will get and that results in a pish league where Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen, Dundee Utd etc can never, ever challenge again.

    Although the two clubs rule is clearly designed so that the OF can team up and veto anything which doesn't suit them, you have to marvel at the stupidity of the rest in letting them do it.
     
  17. frasermc

    frasermc Take your flunky and dangle

    Celtic
    Scotland
    Jul 28, 2006
    Newcastle-Upon-Tyne
    Club:
    Celtic FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Scotland

    Gordon is right. No point in laying all the blame at the two big Glasgow clubs door for all of this, as convenient as it may be.

    A lot of the smaller clubs are more than happy to collect the gate money that comes from two home matches against Celtic and Rangers and also collect their share of the TV deal which is mainly so Sky can show 4 Glasgow derbies per season.
     
  18. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sure, but now the Old Firm has complete control. In order to get anything changed you have to be able to get one of Celtic or Rangers to agree to it, and hope nobody else disagrees.

    Hell, the whole idea that it takes 11 out of 12 votes for something to pass is stupid. Even if Rangers and Celtic and 8 other teams wanted to improve something for the better Hibs and Hearts could decide they didn't like it and screw everyone.
     
  19. Pedro's greasy do

    Nov 7, 2008
    London
    Club:
    Glasgow Rangers FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Scotland
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17250348

    It sounds like a step in the correct direction.

    Anyone have any insight into the set up of the performance schools?

    I like the idea of the Scottish way. As long as it's progress. I think we maybe spend a bit too much time looking up to the Dutch and Spanish. Yes we should take things from the better nations but we should try to add our own new ideas as well. Also is there a plan in place to make sure there is always progress? Not just put a plan in place and then pat our self on the back.

    The point about playing on the street. I don't know about you lot. But I used to play football all the time, at the park, on the streets. Nearly every single day after school until it started to get dark or the street lights came on... :)

    Interesting to see Smith thinks he made a mistake and Roxburgh had the foresight to see it coming. Why was he not listened to? How do we make sure that is not the case again?

    The time for talking has been over for a long long time. The last thing I'd like to see them do is put a 5 - 10 year plan on this. This is how long it will take right?
     
  20. Goforthekill

    Goforthekill Member

    Aug 13, 2011
    Minnesota
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Im not scottish but i have read a lot about how some people want to expand the SPL to 14, 16, or 18. how some want to make it smaller to 10. i have read about the 80 million pound TV contract that relied on 4 old firm games a year. and about another plan by some executive to allow the old Firm and "gang of 10" to sign their own separate contracts. but last night i had a great idea, some of you might not like it but i think it would make more money. what if the SPL expands to 16 teams but split into two leagues of 8. both leagues are organized together like in france or spain but a TV contract is sold together. the top league (premier division) would get 2/3 of the revenue and games broadcast, the (first division) would get the other third. each team would play 6 games against every other team which would result in 42 games for every team and a total of 6 old firm games.
     
  21. Sweet Pete

    Sweet Pete Member

    Mar 2, 2011
    Taney Town
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Scotland
    Scottish football doesn't need to be "saved". A lot of teams are low on funds and living in debt, so cut your cloth according to your means and focus on youth, it's not ********ing rocket science. A little common sense and a lot less tabloid scaremongering would go a long, long way. Take your heads out of the red tops and go to some games, the football on show is as exciting as it's ever been.
     
  22. Goforthekill

    Goforthekill Member

    Aug 13, 2011
    Minnesota
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good for you
     
  23. Sweet Pete

    Sweet Pete Member

    Mar 2, 2011
    Taney Town
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Scotland

    That's the stupidest idea ever. You Yanks don't understand football at all (with the exception of my wee mate Ivan).

    There are 42 professional football clubs in Scotland and hundreds of semi-professional clubs. The game doesn't need to be saved from anything, it's getting along just fine as it is.

    Shove your old firm games up your arse.
     
  24. Goforthekill

    Goforthekill Member

    Aug 13, 2011
    Minnesota
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good for you
     
  25. Gordon EF

    Gordon EF Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 15, 2004
    Edinburgh
    Long overdue. I think I mentioned this in a post on this thread about 3 years ago!

    When footballers appeared, we did fine. Now top footballers don't appear, they're made. We've been negligent in this for way too long. I think most Scots are too negative about this country too. As if accepting that Scottish players shouldn't be as good as Portugese or Croatian or Danish players is just natural. It's not. These countries have been producing better players than us because they've been working hard to do it. We need to do the same. If this is a serious plan and not just a load of hot air, that's very encouraging. Unfortunately, this will take a bit of time to bear any fruit.
     

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